Class377/5
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Total amount of water is estimated at 250,000 litres. It came through the walls and flooded the tracks hence the issues with stopping it in the first place.
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Flooding at Farringdon
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Total amount of water is estimated at 250,000 litres. It came through the walls and flooded the tracks hence the issues with stopping it in the first place.
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RailUK Forums
That's the same amount as the fuel capacity (241,000 litres I read here) of a Boeing 747 jumbo jet. A hydrant fuel pump truck at Heathrow will pump that amount in taking about 30 minutes. How many days has this situation been going on, with apparently miniscule pumps it seems.
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Glad they finally got some pumps in. The word on the street last night was that they were getting some special loco down from the oop north to assist with pumping the water out.
Looking at the photos though it's considerably worse than when I last took a unit through there on Thursday. It was just below the top of the rails then but has got considerably deeper. There's a fair bit of infrastructure under the flooded bit (loops, magnets even potentially a ground mounted signal or two) so the NR guys will have their work cut out.
As already highlighted the low number of tph available via turnback at STP shows how the only crossover (the Midland Road crossover in the Kings Cross tunnel) is a limiting factor in the plans.
The degraded working/number of trains in service should also help to show those people asking "who wants to get a train from Brighton all the way to Bedford?" the whole benefit of not having terminating platforms, being that you can run far more trains straight through central London when you don't need to terminate.
Looking at the photos though it's considerably worse than when I last took a unit through there on Thursday. It was just below the top of the rails then but has got considerably deeper. There's a fair bit of infrastructure under the flooded bit (loops, magnets even potentially a ground mounted signal or two) so the NR guys will have their work cut out.
As already highlighted the low number of tph available via turnback at STP shows how the only crossover (the Midland Road crossover in the Kings Cross tunnel) is a limiting factor in the plans.
The degraded working/number of trains in service should also help to show those people asking "who wants to get a train from Brighton all the way to Bedford?" the whole benefit of not having terminating platforms, being that you can run far more trains straight through central London when you don't need to terminate.
Presumably part of the problem is where you pump it too. There's not much point pumping out of Farringdon if it is then going to flood elsewhere. I would also expect that now the water has found a way in it is coming in as they pump it out, so the net amount pumped out is probably less than than their pumping capacity.
Aictos
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don't worry, London Overground is still of the impression that First Capital Connect still exists when they have ticket acceptance in place when LOROL has disruption.....
Surely it also shows the dis-benefits of the not having terminating platforms when you can't run through?
Quite. As the Central line found out on Saturday.
Yes. Yes it does. I.e. the benefits of being able to run more trains than you would if you had terminating platforms.
swt_passenger
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It's been said somewhere that Thames Water couldn't turn off the burst main because it supplies a hospital. Is there any evidence that they are installing a diversionary supply?
Before long I expect people will be proposing sackings of top people at both Thames Water and the NHS in response...
If only that diversionary water main via Okehampton was still open.
(Thames Water have stuck in a new valve which reduces the section of pipe 'isolated')
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Whilst I am sure you know best, there are a few complicating factors here:
1) Access - It is in a tunnel with the rail flooded.
2) Where to pump the water to when your super duper pump arrives
3) Pumping out more water than flows into the tunnel
4) How to restore the infrastructure and repair the damage
5) Ventilation of fumes
etc
Busaholic
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Also
6) density of Jet A-1 is 0.81kg/l, compared to pure water at 1kg/l and silty water + ballast heavier still, ie pump has to be at least 25% bigger to do the same work
7) vertical distance from (pressured) apron fuel system to highest part of 747 wing tank around 8metres. Vertical distance from bottom of flood to nearest drain that can cope with high outfall about 25 metres
Yeah but guys if you just got that pump in it would work fine and there would be no issues! Clearly the top bods at Network Rail, Thameslink, Thames Water and the NHS should be fired as they're incompetent :roll:
westcoaster
Established Member
Just some added bits
1 the water is also coming up through the drains, as quick as you pump it comes back ( below the water table and lowest point in the drainage system)
2, apparently they were pumping into the drains on LU but had to stop as that was also backing up
3, the tunnel has its own pump somewhere but this has been overwhelmed ( about 9 years ago it flooded so bad down there overnight a train went into the flood water and came into the cab)
4, Nr need to check the walls, the track, signals and telecoms, tpws equipment
5, partly out of the tunnel so no problem.
In other news 6z99 class 31 plus empty RHTT wagons plus rail vac should be there now to help out, only 31's and 73's aloud in the core with ohle isolated.
Class377/5
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Basically the water was pumped out but due to the location, is lower than the water table. Most of the water simply poured out the walls as water was drained away. No one truely knew how much water until it stopped coming through.
Other problem was location. Its good and well stating that there are pumps that can move that water in an hour but this is a live railway site. This pumps don't fit down there with trains running (its in a narrow tunnel several stories below ground) there nor is it easy to get pumps to site. Only choice was keep it at manageable levels with cause is being dealt with. Not to mention the water had to be pumped over 200m which made the removal more complex.
On the subject of the cause, the pipe started leaking water twice after they found and fixed the fault initially. Hardly the railways fault.
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EM2
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16:26 was cancelled from start of service.
Southernrover
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Went for a ride on the Southside of the block today and noted the following:
The reduced service was keeping relatively good time despite the Farringdon reversers having to wait at City Thameslink for the Brightons to vaccate the platform at Farringdon.
This was putting about 8 minutes on to the journey from Blackfriars to Farringdon.
What was very clear was that the CIS on Southeastern stations could not handle the STP timetable that TSGN were running with none of their services appearing on the boards.
This caused a lot of confusion at places like Shortlands where intending Victoria pax were boarding the Blackfriars trains.
City Thameslink was like a ghost station at 13:00 but I suppose it will be busy later.
The reduced service was keeping relatively good time despite the Farringdon reversers having to wait at City Thameslink for the Brightons to vaccate the platform at Farringdon.
This was putting about 8 minutes on to the journey from Blackfriars to Farringdon.
What was very clear was that the CIS on Southeastern stations could not handle the STP timetable that TSGN were running with none of their services appearing on the boards.
This caused a lot of confusion at places like Shortlands where intending Victoria pax were boarding the Blackfriars trains.
City Thameslink was like a ghost station at 13:00 but I suppose it will be busy later.
DelayRepay
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I'm on the 17.47 from St Pancras. A few standees in the middle coaches but towards the front the train's half empty. Normally at this time it'd be standing room only but today I have a block of 4 seats to myself.
Wonder if everyone left early or has gone via the GN?
Wonder if everyone left early or has gone via the GN?
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Bit of both - in earlier myself - 0628 starter of SAC all stations emergency service - 8 cars - wedged solid after Elstree , 1717 off SPX back - all stations to Bedford - very busy but no worse than a normal day.
Interesting looking drain train spotted berthed in the good line at West Hampstead...
I believe they can (and will) pursue the water company for their financial loss as any other organisation can pursue anyone else when losses are incurred. So Network Rail most likely, as far as I'm aware, get compensation from Thames Water.
Glad I didn't buy a house next to a railway line then. If your kids kick a football onto the track and cause disruption it could bankrupt you!
DelayRepay
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Hopefully, your home insurance would include liability to third parties.
I got my daily excercise this evening running from City Thameslink to Blackfriars. Still beat the train I'd jumped off which was held for a few minutes 
Although there was what seemed to be some water still there a few hours ago, there is a sense of optimism that a normal service will resume tomorrow, but we'll see in a little while.
Edit: I should add, credit to the station staff at Farringdon and the lady driving 1W43 to Brighton - frequent announcements explaining what had gone wrong, what it meant for passengers in simple terms and alternative options.
Although there was what seemed to be some water still there a few hours ago, there is a sense of optimism that a normal service will resume tomorrow, but we'll see in a little while.
Edit: I should add, credit to the station staff at Farringdon and the lady driving 1W43 to Brighton - frequent announcements explaining what had gone wrong, what it meant for passengers in simple terms and alternative options.
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Indeed, but I doubt that causing delays to trains resulting in consequential losses is an insured peril?
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