Food & Drink on the railway

[mark-h]

SSP also own Rail Gourmet* who run some onboard catering services and are a supplier to others.

I think station catering is far less of a monopoly that airport catering- you are not required to be at a station hours before your train and have no liquid restrictions. Most large stations are in city centres where there is a range of places to get food and drinks at reasonable prices.

*They seem to be calling themselves RG (although still use railgourmet.com as their website)- this may be because the term "gourmet" does not apply to any of their services!

 

[Bletchleyite]

SSP also own Rail Gourmet* who run some onboard catering services and are a supplier to others.

I think station catering is far less of a monopoly that airport catering- you are not required to be at a station hours before your train and have no liquid restrictions. Most large stations are in city centres where there is a range of places to get food and drinks at reasonable prices.

*They seem to be calling themselves RG (although still use railgourmet.com as their website)- this may be because the term "gourmet" does not apply to any of their services!

Notably their logo looks very similar to (is the same as) the Railcard R!

 

[Butts]

For proponents of renationalisation of The Railways is not a little worrying that most of the Big Stations are owned by Network Rail and judging from the contents of this thread, they as a Government Controlled Landlord do not seem any more benevolent than private undertakings.

Ultimately if they wanted to, the power must exist for them to encourage more varied outlets on their Stations by charging a little less in Rent.

Perhaps the perceived panacea of Government Control is a myth if the example they are setting with regard to this is anything to go by.

 

[gaillark]

I still get most of my refreshments on the train HOWEVER the choice is being far more limited now with withdrawal of buffet cars and being replaced by trolley services which only luke warm tea/coffee's and a few sandwiches. Nothing substantial that British Rail offered or under the early privatised TOC's.


Railway food has become very expensive as many other posters have said here already and at the same time choice has become more limited. I appreciate that we pay a premium but that premium has become "for what".

The BITE card previously offered 20% off at selected SSP outlets and best of all once you purchased four hot drinks the fifth was free. Now corporate greed has set is whereby the discount has dwindled to 10% and you have to buy 9 hot drinks to get the tenth free. Hardly loyalty and incentive to the general public. Haven't used the cards in years now.


It was interesting that when Lord Adonis was Secretary of State for Transport he himself discovered how poor and expensive railway refreshment facilities were. Go to most stations and you will find the buffet or coffee stall closed early afternoon. Nothing is available until late evening.

You would have expected that larger stations would have some kind of catering facility open until 10 or 11pm which would be paid for by the premium prices operators charge to provide an al-day service to the travelling public. All TOC's themselves are greedy by pushing up rents beyond reasonable and we already have seen this years ago in the High Street with retail shops struggling to survive because of high rents and rates. If we are not careful in a few year’s time there will be very little in term of catering facilities open beyond midday and at fewer locations ....


whilst on-train, travelling First Class you do get some perks but the cost of the ticket price hike over inflation is huge and it not justifiable at Anytime prices. Virgin West Coast are a prime example of this: Their first class on-board offer for breakfast is good but beyond breakfast which finishes before 10am from London its a joke. LNER is much better whereby it actually provides hot food all day long but their ticket prices are outrageously expensive (especially off-peak) and East Midlands is the most sensible in keeping ticket prices down by purchasing your own food beyond basic complimentary items. Great Western Railway is just a pure rip off in terms of its offering and quality although the Pullman dining service is good but ruined with the introduction of the new Hitachi trains.


In British Rail days Travellers-Fare was a fairly decent operation with lots of choice and it operated at a surplus. This was one of the first parts of British Rail to be privatised. Interestingly SSP announced last month that its profits for the last financial year rose nearly 15% (although this figure relates to all their global operations and are expanding fast).


With on train catering this leads me to ask whether all InterCity trains should provide catering. On-board catering is still (and will be) relevant but it needs to be of a much higher quality like being able to purchase a value or money full hot meal (pub prices) with seating in a buffet car or adjacent coach for use of buffet customers only whilst the rest of the train being available for other passenger's. When booking tickets an option should be available asking the customer whether they wish to travel on a train with catering facilities or not.

In my view the railway is a railway - turn up and go with no pre booking and not an airline operation as some want exclusively.


There is no national policy on railway catering whether on-train or at stations. High time that a national policy be put in practice for the benefit of the travelling public. I can’t see no issue with some financial cross-subsidy in order to provide a comprehensive public service that is based on some competition during core hours but recognising the need for some subsidy to provide a service during less busy times.

 

[yorksrob]

I think SSP is too remote a lot of the time to make a good job of catering. Selling sausage rolls for three pounds in the buffet at Barrow in Furness is clearly a case in point.

In terms of buffet trolleys, its a shame that so many seem to have difficulty in providing anything but tepid water.

By contrast, the S&C trolley gets on at Settle and yet still manages to provide a properly hot cup of tea as far away as Kirkby Stephen and beyond !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think SSP is too remote a lot of the time to make a good job of catering. Selling sausage rolls for three pounds in the buffet at Barrow in Furness is clearly a case in point.

In terms of buffet trolleys, its a shame that so many seem to have difficulty in providing anything but tepid water.

By contrast, the S&C trolley gets on at Settle and yet still manages to provide a properly hot cup of tea as far away as Kirkby Stephen and beyond !

And (use of bad English) , provide a very decent food / snack range with often locally sourced items. Always buy something off them , and never dissapointed.

Reminds me of a programme a few years ago on Indian Railways , where food franchises were let on services towards Goa , where real competetion was in place with impressive results. No fan frankly (as some would gather in this area) - but this seemed to work very well.

One forgets that "BR" were really upping their game in the 1980's (awaiting retribution) on both the standard of station catering (think Prue Leith and others) on "sandwiches" etc , the excellent and much missed Bistro at Liverpool St , and especially on proper Pullman and 125 set dining / lunch services. The "cuisine 2000" idea of chilled and reheated meals on WCML , a "brave" attempt to bring in superior meals was rapidly terminated and "in house" catering rapidly brought in. Documented elsewhere.

 

[yorksrob]

One forgets that "BR" were really upping their game in the 1980's (awaiting retribution) on both the standard of station catering (think Prue Leith and others) on "sandwiches" etc , the excellent and much missed Bistro at Liverpool St , and especially on proper Pullman and 125 set dining / lunch services. The "cuisine 2000" idea of chilled and reheated meals on WCML , a "brave" attempt to bring in superior meals was rapidly terminated and "in house" catering rapidly brought in. Documented elsewhere.

I wish I'd taken advantage of the breakfast upgrade on the ECML when it still existed !

On the subject of BR, the station buffets at the old Ashford (Kent) station used to do a lovely mug of hot chocolate.

 

[benbristow]

Boots is pretty cheap if you go for their meal deal. When I changover to connect to the ECML in Edinburgh I have a bit of a tradition of getting their triple chicken sandwich pack, a packet of posh (Kettle) crisps and an innocent smoothie for like £3.80 or something. Quite a good deal.

Depends where you go really.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I wish I'd taken advantage of the breakfast upgrade on the ECML when it still existed !

On the subject of BR, the station buffets at the old Ashford (Kent) station used to do a lovely mug of hot chocolate.

Faversham used to do excellent cakes , locally made if you follow the gist. Top notch.

 

[yorksrob]

Faversham used to do excellent cakes , locally made if you follow the gist. Top notch.

It was rare for me to get quite so deep into 'Chatham' territory in those days, but I'm sure I'd have tried one if I'd been out that way !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It was rare for me to get quite so deep into 'Chatham' territory in those days, but I'm sure I'd have tried one if I'd been out that way !

They did have EPB's out there you know

Mind you the 0414 off Gillingham was a killer (OT I know) - humour me.

 

[yorksrob]

They did have EPB's out there you know

Mind you the 0414 off Gillingham was a killer (OT I know) - humour me.

That's more than I ever got in Ashford (on a service train at least) - occasionally a HAP if you were lucky !

 

[adamello]

Mind you - I recall drinking fountains, from which you could have filled up your own bottle, being pretty standard at US airports in the late 70s.

Maybe drinking fountains started to get removed at the 'suggestion' of the bottled water industry in the 80s? Not that such fountains were so common in the milder UK climate.

It wasn't too long ago that the text was on bottled water stating "This bottle is not designed to be refilled" (or words to that affect)

 

[takno]

It wasn't too long ago that the text was on bottled water stating "This bottle is not designed to be refilled" (or words to that affect)

To be fair they aren't designed to be refilled. I doubt there's any issues reusing them to drink out of straight away, but reusing them forever for storing drinks isn't recommended at all

 

[WesternLancer]

It wasn't too long ago that the text was on bottled water stating "This bottle is not designed to be refilled" (or words to that affect)

Maybe, though presumably that is an instruction to cater for people who
a)never take sensible cleaning precautions with re-usable containers and
b) a way of preventing pointless litigation.

In what way are they 'not designed to be re-used' I wonder?

I re-use such bottles regularly, wash them up in hot water etc, dispose of them eventually. Allow to dry etc. If I wanted to keep them long term would use a sterilizing tablet or some such.

I wonder if the text should have been translated into "This bottle is designed to be throw away so that next time you need a swig of water you come back and buy more from us"

 

[mirodo]

When you have to empty your kids' water bottle before airport security then have no choice but to buy bottled water on the other side....

Plenty of airports provide free water fountains, and you may be able to get a refill at cafes/restaurants at those that don't have them.

https://www.aph.com/community/holid...t-security-price-hikes-fill-bottles-revealed/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Plenty of airports provide free water fountains

Both Luton and Schiphol have had them for years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair they aren't designed to be refilled. I doubt there's any issues reusing them to drink out of straight away, but reusing them forever for storing drinks isn't recommended at all

I believe over time they leach plastics into the water, even more so if used for drinks other than water. The best thing to do is to buy a stainless steel bottle to reuse. Ally also leaches, when I for a bit drank from one all day in work I was getting headaches which stopped when I switched to stainless steel. If it gets manky, sterilise it with a kettleful of boiling water and it's good as new.

 

[takno]

Maybe, though presumably that is an instruction to cater for people who
a)never take sensible cleaning precautions with re-usable containers and
b) a way of preventing pointless litigation.

In what way are they 'not designed to be re-used' I wonder?

I re-use such bottles regularly, wash them up in hot water etc, dispose of them eventually. Allow to dry etc. If I wanted to keep them long term would use a sterilizing tablet or some such.

I wonder if the text should have been translated into "This bottle is designed to be throw away so that next time you need a swig of water you come back and buy more from us"

It's not really a sterilising thing. The plastic starts to break down and leak unpleasant compounds into the liquid. Not being a chemist or being overly-given to worrying I tend to just do the same as you, and I try to avoid using them to store stuff for more than a day or two.

If I was preparing packaging with the aim of avoiding a lawsuit I may well take a more cautious approach though. And if, quite by chance, the more cautious approach also pushed people towards buying more of my product rather than drinking the free alternative, well that would just be good fortune.

 

[WesternLancer]

It's not really a sterilising thing. The plastic starts to break down and leak unpleasant compounds into the liquid. Not being a chemist or being overly-given to worrying I tend to just do the same as you, and I try to avoid using them to store stuff for more than a day or two.

If I was preparing packaging with the aim of avoiding a lawsuit I may well take a more cautious approach though. And if, quite by chance, the more cautious approach also pushed people towards buying more of my product rather than drinking the free alternative, well that would just be good fortune.

well said, interesting to read your point about plastic breaking down tho. Wonder how long this takes. Bottled water you actually buy seems to have pretty long life in the best before dates after all.

 

[yorksrob]

I had a friend at work once, who used to refill his own plastic water bottle. There was definitely green stuff growing in the bottom of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had a friend at work once, who used to refill his own plastic water bottle. There was definitely green stuff growing in the bottom of it.

Eww.

You do need to sterilise reusable bottles periodically, I do mine every month or so or if there is an obviously "earthy" taste. It just takes a kettle of boiling water then leave it to stand until it cools enough to pour it out.

Never put anything other than water in them, though, that just makes them go properly yuk. That said, my (tea) flask is fine just being run through the dishwasher each time.

 

[WesternLancer]

Eww.

You do need to sterilise reusable bottles periodically, I do mine every month or so or if there is an obviously "earthy" taste. It just takes a kettle of boiling water then leave it to stand until it cools enough to pour it out.

Never put anything other than water in them, though, that just makes them go properly yuk. That said, my (tea) flask is fine just being run through the dishwasher each time.

Yes, but of course you cannot poor boiling water into a disposable plastic bottle AFAIK, well not and expect it to be in the shape of a bottle afterwards...
But fine for suitable other containers no doubt

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but of course you cannot poor boiling water into a disposable plastic bottle AFAIK, well not and expect it to be in the shape of a bottle afterwards...
But fine for suitable other containers no doubt

One of the many reasons it's best not to reuse those, but to purchase a steel bottle for keeps.

 

[duffield]

I pick up discarded single use bottles from the recycling bin at work, rinse, use for a couiple of weeks and then put them back in the recycling. So as long as other people are using these bottles my extra use has no evironmental impact. If these bottles disappear I'll see about getting a steel one.

 

[yorksrob]

Eww.

You do need to sterilise reusable bottles periodically, I do mine every month or so or if there is an obviously "earthy" taste. It just takes a kettle of boiling water then leave it to stand until it cools enough to pour it out.

Never put anything other than water in them, though, that just makes them go properly yuk. That said, my (tea) flask is fine just being run through the dishwasher each time.

"Eww" was my thought at the time as well !