Football ‘fans’ Trash Cardiff to London Train.

[AlterEgo]

So, are you saying it's football's fault or not?

It’s football’s problem to fix. Fault is here nor there.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The Transpennine Ale Trail groups are as bad or worse than any groups heading to the football I've seen between Manchester and Leeds. Peeing there trousers, holding up the train at each station waiting for the stragglers and telling on board railway staff how to do their job.
The types who go on these are not to far off who you'd think may very well be regular visitors to this very forum. Real Ale/Railway Enthusiast types.

The TransPennine Ale Trail is one issue that was partally addressed a decade a go when it was hijacked by stag/hen dos but when the football was on it pretty became a find an alternative route available with the residents of Slawit and Marsden requesting that trains should skip their stations. The behavior was in my view, equal to that of the usual football thug crowd - mostly wasted, rude and sexist (the latter applies both ways). You'd often see them laying or uranating in peoples gardens and I'm talking both men and women who should really know better.

It would be a lot better if the TransPennine Ale Trail was scrapped and then relaunched a few years later as two seperate trails with a chance to claim either a T shirt (as per the Devon & Cornwall trails) or a pen set, as people on the trail would be getting something out of it rather than a night in the cells. Likewise with the football lot, a complementry cup of tea / coffee with pie and chips - they'd go to the match not just to see someone booting a pigs bladder around some grass but also for the "free" grub too. OK, it'd come out of the season ticket.

 

[johnnychips]

It’s football’s problem to fix. Fault is here nor there.

How would you suggest ‘football’ fixes it ? I am not being sarcastic, I am interested in your solutions.

 

[liamf656]

It’s football’s problem to fix. Fault is here nor there.

That seems to be very broad, just like saying that it’s “the Railways’” fault for reliability

Overall Millwall seem to be the worst for the fans’ behaviour. I was on a Sheffield to London Meridian after Milwall had lost to Sheffield and the train had stopped a few times for BTP to break up fights that had broken out. I also believe a handful were kicked off the train at Elstree and Borehamwood.
On arrival to London the train had seats slashed, curtains ripped off the wall in first class, toilets trashed and the rest of the train being used as a toilet, “presents” being left in brownie tubs and I could go on. Cleethorpes were no better, a handful of 170s had tables ripped out the wall

 

[Peter Sarf]

How would you suggest ‘football’ fixes it ? I am not being sarcastic, I am interested in your solutions.

How about not having fans at games.

Years ago I went to some Division 1 games (when 1 meant top). I nearly got caught up in trouble and saw it at a distance in other cases. I decided that going to football matches was not for me and I know very few people who do go to football matches. So to me it is an event for uncivilised yobs to feel that they can behave badly at. We have seen cases of crowds causing a crush and death. So why let this go on ?. I watch footie from the comfort (and safety) of my own home. If someone really likes the sport then go ahead and play it.

It could be argued that this is a problem with league football and needs to be sorted out by league football. But will the problem yobs just find another spectator sport to trash ?.

 

[Facing Back]

How about not having fans at games.

Years ago I went to some Division 1 games (when 1 meant top). I nearly got caught up in trouble and saw it at a distance in other cases. I decided that going to football matches was not for me and I know very few people who do go to football matches. So to me it is an event for uncivilised yobs to feel that they can behave badly at. We have seen cases of crowds causing a crush and death. So why let this go on ?. I watch footie from the comfort (and safety) of my own home. If someone really likes the sport then go ahead and play it.

I think that would be a shame and possibly an over-reaction.

I go to a small number of games - maybe 4 or 5 a year - in my home Manchester, my team Newcastle and the odd one in London (not Millwall) and I have for 40 years. I recognise of course that there is violence, especially in the periphery but I have never seen any - my point is only that it is not the necessarily the norm. I may of course have been lucky but mainly I see families having a great time supporting their team.

I accept that football can and does attract thugs and applaud the efforts of clubs and law enforcement to deal with it, and sympathise with the crews on the late night trains - football or otherwise - where unacceptable behaviour is common.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The scale of football and the crowd mentality means a lot of bad behaviour gets overlooked or even encouraged.

Absolutely disagree. Plenty of behaviour that is seen as totally fine at other sports is criminalised at football (e.g. having a beer on a coach). Football fans are subject to significantly more limitations on their freedoms than fans of other means of entertainment (when was the last time someone going to a rugby match wasn't allowed to travel there by their own means). When someone does break the law at or near a football match the punishment they get is significantly harsher than if it wasn't football related. The idea that football fans are treated with a light touch as you suggest is hilarious and totally incorrect.

That’s hard to argue when the football authorities are making such strides to eradicate homophobia and sexism. But don’t worry, it’s much easier to say “societal problem”

Maybe you need to take a look around the UK because homophobia and sexism (alongside transphobia and racism) are absolutely societal problems here.

Absolutely. It’s odd that some people seem to take this subject so personally.

Maybe football fans have had enough of being targeted like they are and have been for decades? Maybe we are fed up of having our freedoms curtailed and having police treat us all like we are the problem? Maybe we think that people shouldn't be judging 99.9% of fans based on the handful of idiots you get? Maybe we think people who get all high and mighty about how awful football fans are should take a look around them as its likely some of their close friends and family are football fans too.

So to me it is an event for uncivilised yobs to feel that they can behave badly at.

Thanks for proving my point above.
Hundreds of thousands of people attend football matches every week, possibly millions over the course of a season. Do you really think they are "uncivilised yobs"?

 

[Facing Back]

Hundreds of thousands of people attend football matches every week, possibly millions over the course of a season. Do you really think they are "uncivilised yobs"?

Premier league suggests each game averages 38,000 people (2019 figures) and there are 380 games in a season - calculate how many millions that is is.

I think that there is a problem in football with a small but highly antisocial element - which has been up and down for decades and to some extent is being dealt with, clearly not on trains. This is different from football being a problem.

 

[sheff1]

Working out of Brighton the worst day was Gay Pride day, drink, drugs, sex and violence in full sight on the trains. Made the football traffic look like a vicars tea party.

Gay Pride day in Manchester was the same .... I now make sure I never cross the Pennines on that day.

No football trains and travel can compare to the 70's and 80's , anyone who travelled in those days were in fear of their lives. Nowadays it is pretty tame compared to that

I travelled throughout the 70s and 80s and was never once in fear of my life.

We have seen cases of crowds causing a crush and death. So why let this go on ?.

We have seen crowd crushes cause death at various religious gatherings. Should they continue ?

 

[SussexSeagull]

Brighton are playing Leeds in March and the cheapest train tickets (ticket splitting sites are indeed my friend) are over £80 and there is no gurantee there won't be a strike that day. I can get a coach that will drop me off near the ground and wait for me there to go home again for nearly half the price.

All the people on here who think football fans on trains are the devil incarnate needn't worry about me adding to the problem anytime soon.

 

[Facing Back]

Brighton are playing Leeds in March and the cheapest train tickets (ticket splitting sites are indeed my friend) are over £80 and there is no gurantee there won't be a strike that day. I can get a coach that will drop me off near the ground and wait for me there to go home again for nearly half the price.

All the people on here who think football fans on trains are the devil incarnate needn't worry about me adding to the problem anytime soon.

£40 return Brighton to Leeds? Direct?

 

[antharro]

I've had very limited experience with football fans on trains. I can recall once at Victoria station a bunch of fans came through making a lot of noise, usual shouting, chants, etc etc. Keeping to themselves but incredibly loud and obnoxious, and I can completely understand how people could be intimidated. The only other time was on a 444 on my way up to London. First class was pretty much deserted until Southampton Central, where the platform was rammed (several people deep up to the wall and barriers). The ten carriage train filled up so the guard couldn't do ticket checks, and first class was effectively declassified and barely had standing room! I think they were mostly well behaved, at least in first, just very loud, and the air was blue!

 

[Metal_gee_man]

2013 Champions League Final was held at Wembley Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich, I jumped on a train in Dover to St Pancras and immediately started to regret my decision making (initially), 100s of German fans of both clubs had just piled off the ferries and were on their way to Wembley
The fans were mixed, they were singing, they were drinking, they were apologising for their behaviour as they'd clearly been drinking on the 1h30 ferry crossing too

I at no point felt threatened, or intimidated by their actions and mild antics, I was offered beer, which I declined but you get the impression it's was an amazing trip for both sets of fans involved (& me)

Whereas recently I caught a late-ish service home from King's X to Pboro after Tyson Fury's win at the Tottenham stadium, it felt like a lads night out with groups all over the thameslink open carriage trains but with ages ranging from 11 to 60 or 70 most of them had clearly drunk loads, were coked up and had either heritage (part of a certain community) to play up to or felt like they had to behave in a certain way all hard and like boxing fans they were loud, still drinking drapped all over the carriages making the wide aisles impossible to pass unless you got one of them to move (intimidation) the language you could imagine and the state of the different areas when they got off would have put the train out of service if the train wasn't already going into the sidings for the night!

Let's be honest here all it takes is a few wrong uns and things can turn ugly and unpleasant, the police being aware and monitoring is one thing (letting certain behaviour slide), arresting people and the ensuing trouble that would come from that one arrest isn't worth the 6 others that'd also need to be nicked for their reactions. Add in being out numbered in a tight situation and yeah the police are very reluctant to make arrests.