Football

[CC 72100]

It was a big fluke of a goal. But like I said hardly a shock as man utd had dominated all game.

As I've only got a dodgy internet connection for BBC World service to go by and no images, I can't really judge that claim for myself. But let's not forget that Steklenburg made a very good save apparently, and as I said, after what is now 30 shots, things are gonna go in sooner or later.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Well no one can fault Moyes subs today. Januzaj excellent

 

[CC 72100]

And anyway, it ain't over yet...

I was right. :cry:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who are united?

.....Leeds ?

 

[balne-wonderer]

.....Leeds ?

If only we actually was. We are a joke of a club

 

[atomicdanny]

I only said United because it was talking about the fulham vs man utd game (i've added manchester to it though :roll they'll be relegated next year anyway...

 

[balne-wonderer]

I only said United because it was talking about the fulham vs man utd game (i've added manchester to it though :roll they'll be relegated next year anyway...

I meant to put a wink on the end to show I was just joking.

Lots of fans calling for Moyes to be sacked. Surely not.

 

[richw]

I meant to put a wink on the end to show I was just joking.

Lots of fans calling for Moyes to be sacked. Surely not.

Can hardly blame the manager when they had 75% possession! and 31 shots. Such stats come back to the players, how can previously top class players suddenly not score with such stats?

 

[balne-wonderer]

Can hardly blame the manager when they had 75% possession! and 31 shots. Such stats come back to the players, how can previously top class players suddenly not score with such stats?

Agreed. Look how Fergie's reign started, Moyes just needs time.

 

[EM2]

Can hardly blame the manager when they had 75% possession! and 31 shots. Such stats come back to the players, how can previously top class players suddenly not score with such stats?

You only have to look at Chelsea v West Ham, where Chelsea had 39 shots and couldn't score. Yet they then beat Manchester City at the Etihad.
As Jimmy Greaves was wont to say, 'It's a funny old game...'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

(and West Ham have been in the wrong on both occasions)

It depends what you mean by 'wrong'.
There is a body of evidence, including from the opposing manager and FA's own match delegate, that Carroll's red card was harsh:

Swansea counterpart Laudrup admitted he felt Carroll had been unlucky.

"I thought it was a bit harsh," the Dane said.

"The referee - a well-known international - had no doubts showing the red card, (but) my personal opinion is that it was contact without much more."


Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/laudrup-labels-carroll-dismissal-harsh#Yd8LuRtQRcB4KR84.99

...Paul Allen, the Premier League’s match delegate, who wrote that he believed the red card was “harsh”, adding: “After reviewing the incident several times on DVD I am still of the opinion that the decision was very harsh and I am not sure if Howard Webb had a clear view of the incident from his vantage point to judge the challenge on its merits or if he thought there was excessive force used due to the over-reaction of the player.” Allen added: “It did not appear that the arm was thrown towards Chico with any aggression.”

 

[Johnuk123]

Agreed. Look how Fergie's reign started.

Not the same now as then though.

The situation in 1989 was in no way similar to the present one. Man U. had gone over 20 years without winning the league then, European football wasn't a consideration. They've gone from winning the league by 11 points to being 9 points off 4th place in less than a season.

 

[SS4]

Agreed. Look how Fergie's reign started, Moyes just needs time.

Will he get the time though? At the moment nobody can say for sure if you're right, it's not implausible that Moyes cannot manage at the highest levels of English football, he's got almost unlimited money to spend now and with that comes the expectation of Champions League and the pressure of buying the right player.

I'm inclined to agree mind you

Also the title race may be closer but it still saddens me to see it's the same old suspects going for the title - if it were Newcastle or Southampton for example that would be an interesting title race

 

[Butts]

Will he get the time though? At the moment nobody can say for sure if you're right, it's not implausible that Moyes cannot manage at the highest levels of English football, he's got almost unlimited money to spend now and with that comes the expectation of Champions League and the pressure of buying the right player.

I'm inclined to agree mind you

Also the title race may be closer but it still saddens me to see it's the same old suspects going for the title - if it were Newcastle or Southampton for example that would be an interesting title race

I hate to remind everyone but I was the sole voice of reason questioning Moyes appointment (look back if you don't believe me ).

He would not have been given a job at any big European Club on the basis of winning nothing

 

[EM2]

I hate to remind everyone but I was the sole voice of reason questioning Moyes appointment (look back if you don't believe me ).

He would not have been given a job at any big European Club on the basis of winning nothing

Really? I can think of a number of managers of clubs such as Real Madrid, or AC Milan, who were appointed despite having not a trophy to their name.
In some instances, such as Clarence Seedorf, they've been appointed having never even managed before.

 

[Butts]

Really? I can think of a number of managers of clubs such as Real Madrid, or AC Milan, who were appointed despite having not a trophy to their name.
In some instances, such as Clarence Seedorf, they've been appointed having never even managed before.

Are you suggesting Moyes would have been appointed by either of the above - I think not

 

[EM2]

Are you suggesting Moyes would have been appointed by either of the above - I think not

No, I'm suggesting that 'winning nothing' is not a bar to being employed by a 'big European club' as a manager.

 

[Butts]

No, I'm suggesting that 'winning nothing' is not a bar to being employed by a 'big European club' as a manager.

But being David Moyes is, except at Manchester United

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I hate to remind everyone but I was the sole voice of reason questioning Moyes appointment (look back if you don't believe me ).

He would not have been given a job at any big European Club on the basis of winning nothing

Might be wrong here but didn't I hear on MOTD that Pellegrini has 'only' won the Inter Toto Cup (or aren't Man City classed as a big European Club?)

 

[Butts]

Might be wrong here but didn't I hear on MOTD that Pellegrini has 'only' won the Inter Toto Cup (or aren't Man City classed as a big European Club?)

Okay point taken - but do you seriously think Moyes would have been appointed to any of the big Foreign European Clubs ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

No, but two of the biggest teams in Spain have managers who have come from nothing (in most circumstances having plied their trade at clubs lower than Everton's comparative status too) - Valencia's Juan Antonia Pizzi has won the Chilean and Argentinian leagues and that's it, and Barca's Gerardo Martino had won absolutely nothing before being joining Barca in the summer. Would a British club have considered appointing either of those two? No, probably not, in the same way a lot of continental teams wouldn't have considered David Moyes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Really? I can think of a number of managers of clubs such as Real Madrid, or AC Milan, who were appointed despite having not a trophy to their name. In some instances, such as Clarence Seedorf, they've been appointed having never even managed before.

I am pleased to see that a well respected forum member on the Football thread has mentioned AC Milan, as a comparative view of this season's current records and league positions of both AC Milan and Manchester United show how two clubs with a very long history in the top levels of European club competitions are currently faring.

 

[EM2]

Okay point taken - but do you seriously think Moyes would have been appointed to any of the big Foreign European Clubs ?

David Moyes himself, no. But 'equivalents' to Moyes, in terms of experience and success certainly have been, as MattE2010 illustrates.
What had Brendan Rogers won before his appointment at Liverpool? Or Antonio Conte before joining Juventus?

 

[richw]

.
What had Brendan Rogers won before his appointment at Liverpool? Or Antonio Conte before joining Juventus?

After Brendan was appointed and the first season I was quite disappointed with the appointment, when Liverpool were lying in the bottom half of the table in the first half of last season, it could have been easy to say get rid of him. I don't think we're going to win anything this year but the team performances are such a massive improvement and I think with a few more additions can be challenging for silverware.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A comparison between the two clubs who occupy the "lucky" seventh place in the top two English leagues with similar points gained this season shows the following:-
Manchester United...41 points
Ipswich Town.........44 points

I wonder which club will see more postings upon this thread.....:roll:

 

[CC 72100]

A comparison between the two clubs who occupy the "lucky" seventh place in the top two English leagues with similar points gained this season shows the following:-
Manchester United...41 points
Ipswich Town.........44 points

I wonder which club will see more postings upon this thread.....:roll:

If that is a subtle way of saying 'you're fed up with the Man Utd posts', let's take into account the following :

- The Pl attracts more followers than the Championship, so issues affecting the former will recieve more press - both on here and more generally.

- Man Utd attracts more followers than Ispsich Town - both in the big wide world and on here

- Man Utd are having an uncharacteristically bad season, and so this is a subject of significant discussion.

So overall, not surprising, is it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

David Moyes himself, no. But 'equivalents' to Moyes, in terms of experience and success certainly have been, as MattE2010 illustrates.
What had Brendan Rogers won before his appointment at Liverpool? Or Antonio Conte before joining Juventus?

Agree. And he deserves and needs time. Something you don't always have the luxury of in football.

 

[Oswyntail]

....- Man Utd are having an uncharacteristically bad season, and so this is a subject of significant discussion.....

I wonder if there is another way of looking at it. In recent seasons at least, reports on MUFC matches have consistently commented that they were not up to their expected standards, that they scraped a win, that they got the rub of the green, etc etc. On very few occasions did they seem to hand out the sort of punishment that Liverpool and Manchester City seem to have done a fair few times this season. Could it be that the side are having their usual season in terms of quality of play, but they are lacking the manic determination to win which Ferguson gave them? (I always thought of him as being like the Persian king in "300", making his armies fearless because they were more terrified of him). Have some players got inflated reputations because of this?

 

[Johnuk123]

Moyes has been unlucky in one respect by inheriting a team with quite a few players either out of form or quite poor.

Fletcher for instance looks like he's never seen a football before.
Van Persie is doing his traditional pre world cup habit of either being injured or playing at half speed to make sure he doesn't miss Brazil.
Raphael and Evra are poor and have always been poor but have been carried.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Evra always has been a hugely overrated player, Heinze was a much better option for them previously but he was moved to early in my opinion.

Some of the players are starting to be found out a little bit but it's not just that.

The Ferguson factor is gone, Moyes has been on the wrong end of some incredibly bad luck and he's had injuries to key players at unfortunate times

Massive game on Wednesday night, I just wonder how many Chelsea and Man City fans will be wanting Man Utd to win that one....

 

[EM2]

To be fair to Darren Fletcher, he's barely played for two years and was suffering from a condition that would probably force many others to retire completely.
A work colleague has the same condition, and found it almost impossible to do a mostly sedentary job before he had surgery. I imagine that with regular strenuous exercise, the condition would be even more difficult to manage.

 

[Johnuk123]

I know what's been wrong with Fletcher and he's done well to come back to football.

Unfortunately sentimentality isn't what Man U. need at the moment, Fletcher is not up to it and you'll find Moyes won't be able to keep him in the first team much longer.He's under tremendous pressure to even make the top 4 he can't afford players who are barely fit.