Four central Glasgow stations to be gated

[MidnightFlyer]

Anderston, Argyle St, Charing Cross and Central (both levels) stations are to be ticket gated. Installation will begin this month and they will become operational between June and November. The project has cost £5,700,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13222630

 

[seagull]

I should imagine the money spent will fairly soon be recovered in ticket sales - and for somewhere as large as Glasgow Central the project is long overdue. It's always surprised me that for so long since privatisation, companies fail to realise that their main source of income is the very people who can, at many locations, avoid paying for the service.

I last went to Glasgow about four or five years ago and they had 'manual barriers' then for certain platforms and at only certain times of day.

 

[MadCommuter]

Anderston, Argyle St, Charing Cross and Central (both levels) stations are to be ticket gated. Installation will begin this month and they will become operational between June and November. The project has cost £5,700,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13222630

At long last! Anderston rarely sees ticket checks and is a known fare avoidance station amongst city workers. As for Central LL, I hope it doesn't cause too mant delays during the morning peaks as space is limited down there.

 

[me123]

About time. Barriers are in place at these stations during the rush hour anyway. It will make a huge difference tackling the fare evasion that is so prevalent in Glasgow. Indeed, I was surprised that Partick Interchange wasn't built with barriers installed!

I'll be curious to see how it works at Charing Cross and Central High Level. There's no way of doing it without blocking off the ticket office, unless you allow fare dodgers to use the lifts! And, at GLC, I'll be keen to see if they block off all platforms in one go, or do them individually.

 

[rail-britain]

The main issue in the Glasgow area are the volume of tickets that cannot be accepted by automated barriers
This is quite obvious when observing the barriers at Glasgow QS
Equally, they appear to have a different layout from when originally installed with one additional manual barrier

 

[MadCommuter]

The main issue in the Glasgow area are the volume of tickets that cannot be accepted by automated barriers

I presume annual seasons will be accepted?

 

[route101]

The main issue in the Glasgow area are the volume of tickets that cannot be accepted by automated barriers
This is quite obvious when observing the barriers at Glasgow QS
Equally, they appear to have a different layout from when originally installed with one additional manual barrier

Daytripper and the expense type tickets !

 

[MadCommuter]

At long last! Anderston rarely sees ticket checks and is a known fare avoidance station amongst city workers. As for Central LL, I hope it doesn't cause too mant delays during the morning peaks as space is limited down there.

GLC LL will require 3 sets of gates and presumably these will all require staffing throughout service times? I guess it must still be viable, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.


The entrance from the south side of Argyle St (at GLC) might be an odd situation as there is no means of purchasing a ticket there. Perhaps a ticket machine will be installed?

 

[tbtc]

Good news, but will it really cost almost six million? Given the cheap nature of some local fares in Glasgow, that's going to take a lot of "dodgers" to claw back the money.

Then again, there's the argument that fare dodgers are often "antisocial" passengers, so if this means fewer inebriated neds on the trains/ platforms then I'm in favour!

 

[rail-britain]

Daytripper and the expense type tickets !

Way more than just those
Add the SPT Zone Card, Edinburgh One card (although not valid in Glasgow), Rovers, e-collect tickets, print at home tickets, and so on
The list is becoming silly now
As above, observe the number of people who have no choice but to use the manual barrier
It's not so many at Edinburgh, but it seems to be very high at Glasgow QS primarily due to the number of people with SPT Zone Cards
It will probably be just as high at Glasgow Central

On my last visit to Glasgow QS the Roundabout (purchased from Queens Park) was also rejected

 

[First class]

Last figures I heard quoted were £15,000 per automatic gate, just for hardware. Creating and implementing the base data is extra unless FSR bring it in house instead of doing what most do and contract it to CUBIC.

 

[MadCommuter]

Way more than just those
Add the SPT Zone Card, Edinburgh One card (although not valid in Glasgow), Rovers, e-collect tickets, print at home tickets, and so on
The list is becoming silly now
As above, observe the number of people who have no choice but to use the manual barrier
It's not so many at Edinburgh, but it seems to be very high at Glasgow QS primarily due to the number of people with SPT Zone Cards
It will probably be just as high at Glasgow Central

On my last visit to Glasgow QS the Roundabout (purchased from Queens Park) was also rejected

Thats just madness that the Zonecard isn't accepted. The sooner an Oyster-type system is set up the better. Trouble is, I can't see it being in place for the 2014 Games.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good news, but someinteresting challenges. Where will they put gates at argyle street? Eqtally charing x wil be interesting. presumably some of these sites will need works to accommodate gates?

 

[me123]

GLC LL will require 3 sets of gates and presumably these will all require staffing throughout service times? I guess it must still be viable, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

They could, of course, leave one set unmanned at some times. They do this at Queen Street Low Level. There are very clear signs advising that the North Hannover Street exit is for ticket holders only between certain times, and that if you need assistance you should go to the main entrance/exit. It is also remotely monitored from CCTV.

I reckon they'll get away with two sets of barriers; one for the north side and one for the south side (with both North side corridors behind the same barriers). Furthermore, at quiet times, there will probably be no-one at the South Side barriers; similar to the situation at Queen Street.

 

[rail-britain]

Thats just madness that the Zonecard isn't accepted. The sooner an Oyster-type system is set up the better. Trouble is, I can't see it being in place for the 2014 Games

The system already accepts such a card, as well as being offered by First ScotRail
Take a look at the units installed at Glasgow QS or Edinburgh (not sure about other stations)
You will see a yellow circle and hand, this is the swipe point for these cards

However, First ScotRail seem to have abandoned the sales of these, virtually noone bought them
It even states this in the latest newsletter, referring to "lower response than expected and subsequently poor sales"

Equally, SPT have no plans to replace, update, or upgrade their existing system
However, I bet they would if they received some additional monies from TS to do so...

 

[Dewedin]

The 'smartcards' are useless, the anti-definition of an integrated ticket.

 

[rail-britain]

The 'smartcards' are useless, the anti-definition of an integrated ticket.

The principle is to eliminate fraud and reduce human intervention
Maybe the Scots got wise to this, and much prefer a physical ticket that requires manual verification
The same reason why more people in Central Scotland still use cash than any other part of Britain...

 

[jw]

SPT are developing a smartcard, initially for the Subway, but which will possibly be used to replace Zone Cards, and is planned to be ITSO compliant so will possibly see use by National Rail too. http://www.spt.co.uk/News/110418_ticketing.aspx

 

[rail-britain]

SPT are developing a smartcard, initially for the Subway,

Pretty much as I mentioned above, SPT were looking for extra monies to ensure it could also be accepted by "other transport providers" as they put it

It is fairly obvious SPT and rail are becoming less connected as more and more information about rail disappears from their material and website
Latest noted was the Roundabout (Rover)

 

[yorkie]

Good news, but will it really cost almost six million? Given the cheap nature of some local fares in Glasgow, that's going to take a lot of "dodgers" to claw back the money.

Then again, there's the argument that fare dodgers are often "antisocial" passengers, so if this means fewer inebriated neds on the trains/ platforms then I'm in favour!

I'm not sure it is good news. There have always been people at Central checking tickets when I've been there, except in the evening. They appear to propose less staff and replacing them with machines that won't accept many tickets (causing queues for the remaining staff to allow people through 'manually'!). I don't see how a line of barriers checking tickets rather than people checking tickets is going to deter antisocial passengers, and as usual at barriered stations I expect they will leave the barriers open in the evening when the antisocial types travel!

It is poor practice to have barriers without staff present, CCTV is not considered adequate enough for TfL where the practice is banned, and they adhere to good practice in this regard. Scotrail and other operators should not be allowed to get away with this and should have barriers manned at all times, and if they can't man the barriers they should be left open.

The only time I consider barriers really useful (to deter antisocial behaviour) is late at night, when they are often left open!:roll:

 

[First class]

I'm not sure it is good news. There have always been people at Central checking tickets when I've been there, except in the evening. They appear to propose less staff and replacing them with machines that won't accept many tickets (causing queues for the remaining staff to allow people through 'manually'!). I don't see how a line of barriers checking tickets rather than people checking tickets is going to deter antisocial passengers, and as usual at barriered stations I expect they will leave the barriers open in the evening when the antisocial types travel!

It is poor practice to have barriers without staff present, CCTV is not considered adequate enough for TfL where the practice is banned, and they adhere to good practice in this regard. Scotrail and other operators should not be allowed to get away with this and should have barriers manned at all times, and if they can't man the barriers they should be left open.

The only time I consider barriers really useful (to deter antisocial behaviour) is late at night, when they are often left open!:roll:

The tickets are easy to add so they work properly, (just a case of specifying the ticket CAPRI code on the base data). Problem is that it gets expensive with the modifications of software by CUBIC.

The base data also allows you to reject/permit specific routes, permit BoJ, enable/disable passback checking etc...

As for staffing, Liverpool Central has 7 automatic gates and 1 manual gate. At all times, there are at least 3 staff manning the gates, with 2 others available (platform staff/supervisor), plus up to 5/6 staff working in the ticket office. I think it is a myth that ATGs displace staff and reduce customer service as long as they are properly commissioned and managed.

 

[CarterUSM]

I'm not sure it is good news. There have always been people at Central checking tickets when I've been there, except in the evening. They appear to propose less staff and replacing them with machines that won't accept many tickets (causing queues for the remaining staff to allow people through 'manually'!). I don't see how a line of barriers checking tickets rather than people checking tickets is going to deter antisocial passengers, and as usual at barriered stations I expect they will leave the barriers open in the evening when the antisocial types travel!

It is poor practice to have barriers without staff present, CCTV is not considered adequate enough for TfL where the practice is banned, and they adhere to good practice in this regard. Scotrail and other operators should not be allowed to get away with this and should have barriers manned at all times, and if they can't man the barriers they should be left open.

The only time I consider barriers really useful (to deter antisocial behaviour) is late at night, when they are often left open!:roll:

I don't wholly agree there Yorkie, the manual barriers at present are operational for 3 hours each, morning and evening peaks, for 4 hours straight on a Saturday. Outwith those times, there is a significant amount of money walking out the exit. I don't think any staff will lose their jobs, either being redeployed to the gateline or selling tickets to passengers. I do however feel that a return of the assistant ticket examiner on certain services would be of some benefit. In any case, barriers bring their own problems as we know too well. ScotRail have done their sums though, and if they weren't going to pay, they wouldn't be going in!

 

[WatcherZero]

Pretty much as I mentioned above, SPT were looking for extra monies to ensure it could also be accepted by "other transport providers" as they put it

It is fairly obvious SPT and rail are becoming less connected as more and more information about rail disappears from their material and website
Latest noted was the Roundabout (Rover)

Not surprising really, the Scottish government seems to be hellbent on taking over their powers and have already removed SPT rail mandate (2005 I think it was?).

 

[Blindtraveler]

somebody correct me, but when gatelines went in at EDB/HYM/DEE/ABD, wernt extra staff employed? I'm sure Waverley saw extra bods to allow staffing from first to last train.

 

[rail-britain]

the manual barriers at present are operational for 3 hours each, morning and evening peaks, for 4 hours straight on a Saturday. Outwith those times, there is a significant amount of money walking out the exit

Many people (that fall into this category) know exactly what trains arrive such that a manual barrier will not be in effect at Glasgow Central
This is quite clear when you compare the number of tickets sold out of Glasgow Central to those incoming
As mentioned previously the issue was that although First ScotRail is the main train provider, other operators did not want automated barriers for various reasons

 

[tbtc]

I'm not sure it is good news. There have always been people at Central checking tickets when I've been there, except in the evening. They appear to propose less staff and replacing them with machines that won't accept many tickets (causing queues for the remaining staff to allow people through 'manually'!). I don't see how a line of barriers checking tickets rather than people checking tickets is going to deter antisocial passengers, and as usual at barriered stations I expect they will leave the barriers open in the evening when the antisocial types travel!

It is poor practice to have barriers without staff present, CCTV is not considered adequate enough for TfL where the practice is banned, and they adhere to good practice in this regard. Scotrail and other operators should not be allowed to get away with this and should have barriers manned at all times, and if they can't man the barriers they should be left open.

The only time I consider barriers really useful (to deter antisocial behaviour) is late at night, when they are often left open!:roll:

Based on what happened elsewhere in central Scotland, I'd expect at least as many staff to remain.

The difference being that, at the moment you can wave any scrap of paper at some staff as you walk past - the machines will ensure that people purchase the correct ticket, but I expect there to be a number of staff on hand (as at Edinburgh etc) if the ticket doesn't scan properly (etc).

 

[rail-britain]

Based on what happened elsewhere in central Scotland, I'd expect at least as many staff to remain

I would agree with this, as many staff have transferred to on-train duties
Equally, on the North Clyde Line this allowed more staff to travel on one train (typically three staff for three coaches) where previously one member of staff would struggle with an entire train of three coaches
It has been commented before that staff struggle on the Ayr Line, and although the automatic barriers will help, beyond Paisley having more on-train staff will help with both revenue and the many reports of other issues!

 

[The_Stig]

Zonecards are accepted through the automatic barriers at Queen st.

 

[Scotrail84]

I don't wholly agree there Yorkie, the manual barriers at present are operational for 3 hours each, morning and evening peaks, for 4 hours straight on a Saturday. Outwith those times, there is a significant amount of money walking out the exit. I don't think any staff will lose their jobs, either being redeployed to the gateline or selling tickets to passengers. I do however feel that a return of the assistant ticket examiner on certain services would be of some benefit. In any case, barriers bring their own problems as we know too well. ScotRail have done their sums though, and if they weren't going to pay, they wouldn't be going in!

Some of the incoming Shotts line trains are mobbed and you struggle at times to get them all before they walk off the train. So extra hand would be appreciated

 

[rail-britain]

Zonecards are accepted through the automatic barriers at Queen st.

Perhaps ticket holders have not been made aware of this, and I have not read anything on this either
I have relative with one and didn't work last week (purchased from Glasgow Central three weeks ago)