Franchise competition and renewal

[krus_aragon]

Other threads have commented on the fact that NatEx is now in the doghouse as bad for competition on future franchises. Just how many owner companies are there at the moment among Britain's TOCs, and how has that changed over time?

Also, how unusual is it for a TOC not to be granted an optional extension? I remember Virgin not getting the Cross Country renewed, but I had the impression that spreading the franchise renewal dates out was in mind back then.

 

[Failed Unit]

I will probably miss some but at the moment we have.

First Group, DB (Chiltern), NedRail / Serco (also with First for TPE), Stagecoach, Virgin / Stagecoach, Nationalised Express & GoVia & Arriva. So if national express never bid again we would still have enough people that are prepared to bid (or are they). DB have stated they want to increase thier influence in the UK and so have NedRail. I think we should be celebrating that National Express have gone rather than worrying we haven't got enough operators to go forward.

 

[Helvellyn]

Well National Express looks like it could be going the way of Connex in being a company that will be driven from the railway. It would be a bigger fall for NatEx though, as at one time they had the largest number of franchises.

Sea Containers also left when GNER was handed back, though it was ultimately problems in the parent company that meant they could not continue to back GNER.

As to companies who will bid, expect to see Arriva (Arriva Trains Wales / Cross Country), Stagecoach (South West Trains / East Midlands Trains / 50% stack in Virgin Trains), GoVia (Southern / Southeastern. / London Midland) and First (Great Western / TransPennine Express / ScotRail) to all bid for East Anglia.

I'd also expect NedRail (Northern) and DB regio (Chiltern) to be interested, as it would give them a second UK franchise.

My personal guess is that one of the reasons Stagecoach walked away from any deal with NatEx (takeover of rail ops or merger) was that DfT give clear hints it would not extend the East Anglia franchise to 2014, if if the operation had been taken over by another company. Why would any company want to buy it to operate for less than 18 months, with no guarantee of the extension?

 

[Mojo]

Also, how unusual is it for a TOC not to be granted an optional extension? I remember Virgin not getting the Cross Country renewed, but I had the impression that spreading the franchise renewal dates out was in mind back then.

I believe this case is slightly different. The East Anglia franchise agreement was for an initial number of years with an extension if targets were being met. The XC franchise was a completely different franchise.

Up until SWT anyway, and then GNER [1] (whichever came first, but both of those were refranchises rather than extensions), I believe it was quite uncommon for such a franchise to have been carried on, although many franchises were amalgamations and thus there were multiple operators (eg. Wessex + Thames (FGW Link) + FGW, First Great Eastern + Anglia + WAgn, Thameslink + waGN)

[1] Excepting Chiltern

 

[90019]

50% stack in Virgin Trains

Isn't is 49%?

 

[MCR247]

and First (Great Western / TransPennine Express / ScotRail) t

Transpennine express is a joint venture with Keolis

 

[mumrar]

GoVia may want to continue bidding, but who in their right mind would listen? London Midland cancelled well over 7000 services in 08-09, and that was second only to.....

Wait for it......

Southern. And, for a goody bag (not the Jade bodybag type), who runs Southern??

GoVia. With there two franchises they cancelled over 15000 trains in one financial year. And we all no how the media like to quantify things, so it's like XC cancelling every train on the Notts-Cardiff route every single day for 18 months!

 

[jopsuk]

Ex-owners:
Prism Rail- original holder of LTS Rail, Wales and West, WAGN and Valley Lines Trains. Bought out by Nat Ex.
GB Railways- orginally Anglia, also set up Hull Trains and GB Railfreight (as well as overseas operations) before being bought by First
Connex- since losing South East and South Central, now an increasingly (international) defunct brand name of Veolia.
Sea Containers- GNER's parent, spectacularly belly up.
Merseyside Transport Limited- owned Northern Spirit, went bankrupt.
Great Western Holdings- formed specially for Great Western Trains, then ran North Western as well in partnership with First before being swallowed up.

All the other defunct franchises were run by companies still involved, as far as I know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
mumrar- Govia have a third franchise, just not in a similar livery. They (combined) run ALL the trains out of Victoria, Charing Cross, Cannon Street and the terminal part of London Bridge.

 

[The Planner]

Expect DB to bid massively for all the franchises that come up in the next few years, especially East and West Coast. The Germans are coming !!

 

[O L Leigh]

GoVia may want to continue bidding, but who in their right mind would listen? London Midland cancelled well over 7000 services in 08-09, and that was second only to.....

Wait for it......

Southern. And, for a goody bag (not the Jade bodybag type), who runs Southern??

GoVia. With there two franchises they cancelled over 15000 trains in one financial year. And we all no how the media like to quantify things, so it's like XC cancelling every train on the Notts-Cardiff route every single day for 18 months!

This is what I don't get.

Everyone is whooping it up because it looks like NX will be out of the rail industry for good and yet there are far worse operators out there. NXEA have never cancelled that number of trains. Nor for that matter did NXEC.

So what's going on...?

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

One reason I didn't like National Express when they had the split-up GN franchise was their pathetic attitude to revenue protection, which annoys me as a commuter. Only at the end of the Wagn franchise did they start to see the benefit in getting some revenue in - and they hired a number of totally unsuitable people as RPIs that First quickly got rid of and re-hired replacements. FCC was very keen from day one to protect revenue, and while they're still not as good as they should be, it's a pretty radical transformation. Yet, it seems that you can easily travel for free on NXEA.

On the occasions that I use NXEA to Cheshunt from Liverpool Street, I think I've had a ticket check once onboard and once at an obvious 'sting' at the Cheshunt station itself with police.

I've also had countless delays, although I wouldn't put that down to the TOC but the line in general. Admittedly, I am sure a lot of people WILL blame NatEx unfairly, although I don't know if that's down to the timetabling - so maybe they should be blamed?

 

[tbtc]

This is what I don't get.

Everyone is whooping it up because it looks like NX will be out of the rail industry for good and yet there are far worse operators out there. NXEA have never cancelled that number of trains. Nor for that matter did NXEC.

So what's going on...?

O L Leigh

Franchise A cancells thousands of trains

Franchise B downgrades the quality of free buscuits in first class

Guess which one the enthusiasts complain about most?

(slight exaggeration, yeah, I know... )

 

[Pumbaa]

Franchise A cancells thousands of trains

Franchise B downgrades the quality of free buscuits in first class

Guess which one the enthusiasts complain about most?

(slight exaggeration, yeah, I know... )

The problem is, a franchise like LM is a blessing compared to their predecessor. Yes LM made a huge belly up of possibly the most important part (both revenue and number of passengers) of their franchise, which ****ed just about everyone off. Saying that, staff are generally more approachable, information is more forthcoming than under Silverlink, new trains, improvements to stations, and a general "we can" attitude. Granted, when it goes wrong, they still just give up, but I think the vast majority of LM punters are still glad to have LM over both CT and Silverlink.

 

[Failed Unit]

Franchise A cancells thousands of trains

Franchise B downgrades the quality of free buscuits in first class

Guess which one the enthusiasts complain about most?

(slight exaggeration, yeah, I know... )

Yeah but with Franchise A another train will be along in about 15 minutes were as a 2 hour journey with a soggy biscuit is just not cricket. If only they had bought in hob-nobs and the first class revenue would not have collapsed!

In the case of London Midland, as a former CT user I just can't see how they can be any worse. Cancellations on Sundays were just as common under CT, along with turning back trains short of the destinaton.

I know this has been covered before if a Norwich - Liverpool service is terminated at Warrington, is it classed as cancelled (if it isn't it should be) Also if a Lichfield - Redditch service runs non-stop New Street - Redditch would this be classed as cancelled (again it should be)

 

[Aictos]

I know this has been covered before if a Norwich - Liverpool service is terminated at Warrington, is it classed as cancelled (if it isn't it should be)

It would show up on the departure boards at all stations on the route after Warrington as being cancelled with a reason why if you're lucky usually the old favourite due to lack of train crew.

Which for DOO operators is lazy, can't they just put cancelled due to no driver available rather then lack of train crew especially these who don't have guards?