Fratton depot shift roster

[Chris1978]

I have received my January start date for Commercial Guard at Fratton, I'm due to take my medical assessment tomorrow.

Just wondered if anyone here knows roughly what the base roster is like at Fratton as this was the only thing that wasnt covered in detail during my interview and I've only been able to find out limited info since.

I know it will consist of a mix of shift times with very early starts and some late finishes and that weekly core hours are around 42 with each shift being between 8-10 hours it seems.
What I'm wondering is do you work a week of earlies then a week of lates or is it more of a mix and match pattern through the course of a week?
Also how does it work with weekends? As railways operate slightly reduced services at weekends I assume this allows them to stand staff down for rest days easier than it does during the week when more services run?

 

[RJM]

5 links for Fratton Commercial Guards, all but link 5 (that's more for the senior folk at the depot) follow the same rest day pattern which rotates over 4 weeks; 6 days on (Monday to Saturday), 2 days off (Sunday & Monday), 7 days on (Tuesday to Monday), 2 days off (Tuesday & Wednesday) then another 7 days on (Thursday to Wednesday) then 4 days off giving you a long weekend from Thursday to Sunday. That then places you back at the start of your 6 days on.

The earlies/lates rotation will vary throughout the roster dependant on the link. Earliest book on at FR is around 0315 with the latest finish around 0200.

 

[downtheline1]

Do you know what the shifts are likely to be for Train Driver at the new depot at Yeovil RJM?

 

[pompeyfan]

5 links for Fratton Commercial Guards, all but link 5 (that's more for the senior folk at the depot) follow the same rest day pattern which rotates over 4 weeks; 6 days on (Monday to Saturday), 2 days off (Sunday & Monday), 7 days on (Tuesday to Monday), 2 days off (Tuesday & Wednesday) then another 7 days on (Thursday to Wednesday) then 4 days off giving you a long weekend from Thursday to Sunday. That then places you back at the start of your 6 days on.

The earlies/lates rotation will vary throughout the roster dependant on the link. Earliest book on at FR is around 0315 with the latest finish around 0200.

to add to that Sunday night Monday morning there is an 0330 finish, which makes the depot open 24 hours a day, with the occasional night turn thrown in during engineering works etc.

turns will usually stay roughly around the same time during the week, I’d say anything up to 3 hour difference through the week, so you’ll effectively be on blocks of early, middle and lates. I’m sorry to say that junior links tend to currently have 3 weeks of lates, followed by a week of early turns.

Saturday has effectively a full time table, which is why you only get 1 Saturday off a month. Sunday is a bit better, half the amount of services which results in being rostered 2 Sunday’s off a month.

 

[tiptoptaff]

What an awful pattern!

 

[Chris1978]

So you almost get 50% of weekends off, could be worse I guess.
You mentioned the 0315 starts on earlies, what time do you normally clock off when starting at that time?

Have to say the junior links of doing 3 weeks of lates followed by a week of earlies must really screw with your body clock, doing 3 weeks of 0200 finishes and then having to adjust to a week of 0315 starts must be a killer!

 

[pompeyfan]

Not quite 50% weekends. As said it’s Sunday Monday off
Then the following Tuesday Wednesday
Then Thu - Sunday then repeat.

Espexially doesn’t help when you’re on lates going into your long weekend then mega early on the Monday!!

 

[RJM]

Do you know what the shifts are likely to be for Train Driver at the new depot at Yeovil RJM?

No idea, there's a driver at my depot transferring down there and he's not been told anything too.

 

[RJM]

to add to that Sunday night Monday morning there is an 0330 finish, which makes the depot open 24 hours a day, with the occasional night turn thrown in during engineering works etc.

turns will usually stay roughly around the same time during the week, I’d say anything up to 3 hour difference through the week, so you’ll effectively be on blocks of early, middle and lates. I’m sorry to say that junior links tend to currently have 3 weeks of lates, followed by a week of early turns.

Saturday has effectively a full time table, which is why you only get 1 Saturday off a month. Sunday is a bit better, half the amount of services which results in being rostered 2 Sunday’s off a month.

Ah yes, forgot about the 0050 from Waterloo on a Monday morning!

 

[tiptoptaff]

If it wasn't for the week without a RD, it wouldn't be so bad I suppose (I know technically it has a Sunday RD) The rolling pattern isn't dissimilar to the 3week rolling RD pattern at our place. That fourth week though. Thats a killer.

 

[RJM]

If it wasn't for the week without a RD, it wouldn't be so bad I suppose (I know technically it has a Sunday RD) The rolling pattern isn't dissimilar to the 3week rolling RD pattern at our place. That fourth week though. Thats a killer.

Average 42 hour, 5 day working week for you!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Average 42 hour, 5 day working week for you!

Much prefer the 35hr 4day week! Must not take it for granted!!

 

[downtheline1]

No worries, thanks RJM!

 

[43066]

Average 42 hour, 5 day working week for you!

That sounds positively dreadful. 3 weeks of lates and a week of earlies = good luck having any kind of social life.

Is there some historical reason why guards’ working weeks have not followed the same pattern as drivers’ at most TOCs - ie 35 hours over 4 days?

That is quite tough enough with extreme earlies and lates!

 

[C001]

Jesus .. that’s a awful roster .. come to scotrail if u want a easy life lol we only work 16 days a month 35hr week!

 

[RJM]

That sounds positively dreadful. 3 weeks of lates and a week of earlies = good luck having any kind of social life.

Is there some historical reason why guards’ working weeks have not followed the same pattern as drivers’ at most TOCs - ie 35 hours over 4 days?

That is quite tough enough with extreme earlies and lates!

It's always stuck from the Guards Restructuring Instructions from the 90’s. Think SWR and Virgin West Coast (Avanti Trains) guards/TM’s are the only ones who still work the 42 hour week.

 

[pompeyfan]

Union ballots have always returned a majority for a pay increase instead of reduction of hours. I think even Southerns OBS are on £35k for 37 hours, which works out at the same hourly rate to about 2 pence.

Having taken a closer look, out of a 16 line link there are 12 blocks of work, and 4 of those are early turns pretty evenly spread out but the early turns are after the Sunday Monday, so it’s a late finish on Saturday night and in to work anywhere between 0314 and 0719 on the Tuesday. Not great.

 

[Chris1978]

Looking at the roster considering SWR say they are very conscious of guards suffering from fatigue, I mean I was told at my interview if you havent had enough sleep you should call in sick, they really dont seem to have considered body clock adjustment much, I mean you often do a week of lates and then 2 off then bounce onto early starts, that wont be easy at all and having just finished a week of late finishes it must be near impossible to try and get a good amount of sleep when starting at 3:15 when your body has just got used to getting in from work around the time your alarm will be going off!

The job advertisement did lead me to believe that there would be no more than 4 working days in a week which based on this roster was false, I'm not sure what the average weekly hours is on this roster either, is it 42? Based on the working days and rest days ratio I would guess it's more.

It has given me a lot to think about as all those late finishes and long runs of back to back working days will have a big impact on my home life, in honesty I had hoped the roster would provide a better work to life balance than this.

 

[pompeyfan]

As you progress through the links the work content does get slightly better but it’s still the same across the board, except for the highly in demand link 5 (old mans/isle of Wight link) which is mainly middles.

The pay does reflect the lack of social life, and it definitely does average out at 42 hours, except for when you pick up 10 hour duties from 8 hours AO turns...

The job isn’t for everyone, but there definitely are more perks and gains from the company than what they get from the guards.

 

[Chris1978]

As you progress through the links the work content does get slightly better but it’s still the same across the board, except for the highly in demand link 5 (old mans/isle of Wight link) which is mainly middles.

The pay does reflect the lack of social life, and it definitely does average out at 42 hours, except for when you pick up 10 hour duties from 8 hours AO turns...

The job isn’t for everyone, but there definitely are more perks and gains from the company than what they get from the guards.

Dont get me wrong I appreciate the pay and perks compensate a lot and with that in mind I wasnt expecting a easy ride.

There does seem to be far more late turns than earlies, is this due to there being more services running later in the day than early in the morning? I had hoped there might occasionally be a few 9-5/10-6 turns or something along those lines but I guess that doesn't link in with the timetable.

My main concern is how this will impact time with my 7 year old daughter as when I'm starting early to mid afternoon and not finishing until late I wont really see her at all unless I drag myself out of bed at 0730-0800 to run her to school but that will of course leave me sleep deprived after the late finishes.

 

[43066]

Looking at the roster considering SWR say they are very conscious of guards suffering from fatigue, I mean I was told at my interview if you havent had enough sleep you should call in sick, they really dont seem to have considered body clock adjustment much, I mean you often do a week of lates and then 2 off then bounce onto early starts, that wont be easy at all and having just finished a week of late finishes it must be near impossible to try and get a good amount of sleep when starting at 3:15 when your body has just got used to getting in from work around the time your alarm will be going off!

The job advertisement did lead me to believe that there would be no more than 4 working days in a week which based on this roster was false, I'm not sure what the average weekly hours is on this roster either, is it 42? Based on the working days and rest days ratio I would guess it's more.

It has given me a lot to think about as all those late finishes and long runs of back to back working days will have a big impact on my home life, in honesty I had hoped the roster would provide a better work to life balance than this.

You certainly should not be calling in sick for fatigue - the company should have a fatigue day policy where you phone in if too fatigued - separate to the sickness policy. If you call in sick you will then start the sickness absence process.

I would think very long and hard about these shift patterns mate. Apologies if it seems like myself and others have piled in and poured cold water on your job offer but as someone who has worked railway shifts for a few years (as presumably other contributors have), it’s because we know that shift pattern is a shocking one.

Add in the fact that SWR is currently in a very bitter industrial dispute re. the role of guards and the long term future of the grade in its current form is by no means certain.

Think very carefully here!

 

[Chris1978]

You certainly should not be calling in sick for fatigue - the company should have a fatigue day policy where you phone in if too fatigued - separate to the sickness policy. If you call in sick you will then start the sickness absence process.

I would think very long and hard about these shift patterns mate. Apologies if it seems like myself and others have piled in and poured cold water on your job offer but as someone who has worked railway shifts for a few years (as presumably other contributors have), it’s because we know that shift pattern is a shocking one.

Add in the fact that SWR is currently in a very bitter industrial dispute re. the role of guards and the long term future of the grade in its current form is by no means certain.

Think very carefully here!

I mis-worded that I think, they told me they are very conscious of fatigue and that if you are not appropriately rested you should not be performing safety critical duties so you would need to follow the procedure to be removed from your shift due to excess fatigue.

I appreciate everybody's honesty here, must admit I'm a little annoyed that the link system and shift timings wasnt covered in more depth in my interview but then I'm probably guilty myself of not asking about it in more depth rather than just assuming what the pattern would be.

I will have to give this some serious thought. My current situation is I really want out of my current job, I'm bored and jaded and frustrated with the treatment we get from management and I see no future in it, however I do work a 4 on 4 off pattern which provides a pretty good work/life balance, I also only work day shifts 0630-1830 or occasionally 0530-1730.
The commercial guard role is definitely something I could see myself being far more content doing for a living, the salary is almost double what I earn now plus the extra perks like free travel and the holiday entitlement is much better too, plus I like that SWR seem to value and reward their staff far more for the role they perform unlike my current employment where everything is about as bare minimum as you can get. I also feel the railways can offer me far more in terms of future progression.

I'm now 41 and definitely ready for a change and a career that will hopefully take me to retirement, I rarely do social activities during the week after work anyway so from that point of view the hours wont really affect my life, my concern as mentioned is how much time I will lose with my daughter, if she was older it wouldnt be such a issue but as shes 7 she still wants to be around her old man and I would hate for a job to have a negative effect on my relationship with her.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Jesus .. that’s a awful roster .. come to scotrail if u want a easy life lol we only work 16 days a month 35hr week!

Are you a ScotRail driver or guard?

 

[C001]

Scotrail guard

 

[C001]

Start at dB next week as trainee driver

 

[RJM]

I mis-worded that I think, they told me they are very conscious of fatigue and that if you are not appropriately rested you should not be performing safety critical duties so you would need to follow the procedure to be removed from your shift due to excess fatigue.

I appreciate everybody's honesty here, must admit I'm a little annoyed that the link system and shift timings wasnt covered in more depth in my interview but then I'm probably guilty myself of not asking about it in more depth rather than just assuming what the pattern would be.

I will have to give this some serious thought. My current situation is I really want out of my current job, I'm bored and jaded and frustrated with the treatment we get from management and I see no future in it, however I do work a 4 on 4 off pattern which provides a pretty good work/life balance, I also only work day shifts 0630-1830 or occasionally 0530-1730.
The commercial guard role is definitely something I could see myself being far more content doing for a living, the salary is almost double what I earn now plus the extra perks like free travel and the holiday entitlement is much better too, plus I like that SWR seem to value and reward their staff far more for the role they perform unlike my current employment where everything is about as bare minimum as you can get. I also feel the railways can offer me far more in terms of future progression.

I'm now 41 and definitely ready for a change and a career that will hopefully take me to retirement, I rarely do social activities during the week after work anyway so from that point of view the hours wont really affect my life, my concern as mentioned is how much time I will lose with my daughter, if she was older it wouldnt be such a issue but as shes 7 she still wants to be around her old man and I would hate for a job to have a negative effect on my relationship with her.

I'll be totally honest pal, keep an eye out for conductor vacancies with Great Western Railway at Fratton if you're concerned about the roster and shifts with SWR - you'll enjoy an average 35 hour 4 day working week (Sundays not included, correct me if I'm wrong!) with GWR and with the odd Sunday instead of the average 42 hour 5 day week with SWR, it'll bring you to around the same salary as you'd get with SWR.

Also as with what 43066 said, SWR are in dispute with the RMT regarding the role of the guard and driver only operation at the moment. I think the guard's role is far more secure in GWR.

Don't get me wrong though, I had a good time as a Commercial Guard - it's a very good job providing you don't go looking for trouble.

 

[tiptoptaff]

GWR Conductors (as at Fratton) are on around 32k plus commission, Sundays outside but are x1.25 and there's a periodic bonus at an extra enhancement if you work all of your booked ones.
Fratton work the straight forward rolling RD pattern with 2RDs per week, grouped together, giving a Fri-Tue long weekend every 3 weeks

 

[tiptoptaff]

Shifts are also less extreme. Earliest start some time around 0500 and last off around 0030

 

[Chris1978]

I'll be totally honest pal, keep an eye out for conductor vacancies with Great Western Railway at Fratton if you're concerned about the roster and shifts with SWR - you'll enjoy an average 35 hour 4 day working week (Sundays not included, correct me if I'm wrong!) with GWR and with the odd Sunday instead of the average 42 hour 5 day week with SWR, it'll bring you to around the same salary as you'd get with SWR.

Also as with what 43066 said, SWR are in dispute with the RMT regarding the role of the guard and driver only operation at the moment. I think the guard's role is far more secure in GWR.

Don't get me wrong though, I had a good time as a Commercial Guard - it's a very good job providing you don't go looking for trouble.

Really appreciate all the info and advice mate.
Thing is the way I'm looking at this is even if the shift roster isnt ideal it's a foot in the door and I've been looking to get on the railways as a guard for some time now, local opportunities dont present themselves all that often. So once in if the roster really doesn't work for me I can perhaps look to move around or even switch to another company if it was more to my liking, at least I would have rail experience under my belt as well which would help my chances, I did apply for a conductor role with GWR a little while back but wasnt selected for interview.

I do see the commercial guard role as something that will be a good fit for me, I have a pretty extensive security and customer service background, plus I'm a very chilled level headed guy who doesn't go looking for trouble, I would always put safety first when dealing with any problematic situations.

 

[RJM]

Really appreciate all the info and advice mate.
Thing is the way I'm looking at this is even if the shift roster isnt ideal it's a foot in the door and I've been looking to get on the railways as a guard for some time now, local opportunities dont present themselves all that often. So once in if the roster really doesn't work for me I can perhaps look to move around or even switch to another company if it was more to my liking, at least I would have rail experience under my belt as well which would help my chances, I did apply for a conductor role with GWR a little while back but wasnt selected for interview.

I do see the commercial guard role as something that will be a good fit for me, I have a pretty extensive security and customer service background, plus I'm a very chilled level headed guy who doesn't go looking for trouble, I would always put safety first when dealing with any problematic situations.

Smashing mate, yep that's the great thing about the railway, always plenty of opportunities to move around once you've got your foot in the door.

Hope the training all goes well!