Free postage of tickets

[AlterEgo]

Then the rail industry is wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds enabling this system, and not using it. What a total waste of money, Also the banks will be livid as it is a compulsory ID check for them, expect the banks to start claiming all transactions back that haven't been ID checked properly by card once they find out the rail companies are not doing it correctly. Or it could be that they are. You will be amazed at the information held on on your bank card!

It's been the case since TVMs were installed way, way back. There really is no problem. When you present your card into a TVM, and the collection is set to payment card only, it isn't an ID check as such - just checking the card is the same one as the one that's on the booking.

A TVM *cannot* reconcile the name on the card to the named traveller, only check whether the card is the same one used to make the booking.

There would be lots of problems with this. For reasons of character restriction, the name on my bank card is in the format "MR ALTEREGO A SURNAME" yet my full name is "ALTEREGO ANOTHER-SURNAME".

The banks are fully aware of the mechanics of any card collection and the risk is to the TOC and not the bank.

In the large majority of cases you must use the payment card. A significant minority of transactions (some booking sites, some travel agencies, some "trusted purchasers") are set to any card collection, a decision made individually by the retailer.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It's been the case since TVMs were installed way, way back. There really is no problem. When you present your card into a TVM, and the collection is set to payment card only, it isn't an ID check as such - just checking the card is the same one as the one that's on the booking.

A TVM *cannot* reconcile the name on the card to the named traveller, only check whether the card is the same one used to make the booking.

There would be lots of problems with this. For reasons of character restriction, the name on my bank card is in the format "MR ALTEREGO A SURNAME" yet my full name is "ALTEREGO ANOTHER-SURNAME".

The banks are fully aware of the mechanics of any card collection and the risk is to the TOC and not the bank.

In the large majority of cases you must use the payment card. A significant minority of transactions (some booking sites, some travel agencies, some "trusted purchasers") are set to any card collection, a decision made individually by the retailer.

But there is a reason the TVM is connected to the internet, it contacts the bank, and gets the details, and then matches. The banks also match each other to known accounts. So, they know that Mr A Smith has an account at Lloyds, and the same Mr A Smith has an account at NatWest, it can match these two together.

This same system also helps fraud, suspicious activity on one card helps stop it on another. But the banks do know all linked accounts, it isn't as simple as only using the information actually on the card. Certain other companies join in to the system too, which is why some loyalty cards can be used, as they too are recognised by the system. Without going into the reasons, as the banks like to keep a lot of this secret. But, trust me on this, the reason a card is needed is for an ID check. Some systems do need the actual payment card, as the company is not willing to pay for the "any card" system, but railways do pay for this, so any named bank card can be used for ID

 

[pemma]

Transpennine do free delivery, but it might be too late to buy for delivery before Thursday.

Having used TPE's booking engine a number of times recently, free postage is only offered if TOD isn't available at the origin station on the first ticket you book and there are more than 5 working days between when you book and when you make your journey.

So, hypothetically if you add a Crewe to Euston ticket to your basket, then an Acton Bridge to Liverpool ticket you will not be offered free postage due to TOD being available at Crewe but if you add the Acton Bridge to Liverpool ticket to your basket first and select free first class postage then all tickets you buy in that transaction can be sent using free first class postage.

 

[Master29]

On a similar thread some time ago, a poster stated that he had used a variety of improbable cards (e.g. supermarket loyalty card) including at least one without a magnetic stripe at all.


GWR web sales allow free first class post, and in my experience the tickets almost always arrive the day after ordering (very occasionally they have come the following day). However I think the postage option is only allowed up to five days before travel.

They wouldn`t be available by freepost with less than a week to go though. They are pretty quick with delivery as you say.

 

[DelW]

They wouldn`t be available by freepost with less than a week to go though. They are pretty quick with delivery as you say.

Oops, I worded my post badly, as the phrase 'up to five days' can be read in two conflicting ways - my intended meaning was that the option to get them posted ends at five days before the date of travel, so I think we're in agreement.

 

[Master29]

Oops, I worded my post badly, as the phrase 'up to five days' can be read in two conflicting ways - my intended meaning was that the option to get them posted ends at five days before the date of travel, so I think we're in agreement.

We most certainly are. I know now what you meant though

 

[philthetube]

I'm looking to buy a ticket online for travel on Thursday for someone else. The person travelling is in a different part of the country to me and is rather inept (relatives *sigh*) so won't be buying the ticket themself, and nor can I use the free "station collect". It's a journey that crosses networks so I can't use any of the app's or home-printed ticket options either it seems.

Is your relative entitled to a disabled railcard? Ineptitude would be a reason then to not use a machine.

Also have you considered contacting EMT asking for written permission for your relative to buy on their services because of your relatives issues issues, your problem there would be contacting the right person.

 

[paddington]

But there is a reason the TVM is connected to the internet, it contacts the bank, and gets the details, and then matches. The banks also match each other to known accounts. So, they know that Mr A Smith has an account at Lloyds, and the same Mr A Smith has an account at NatWest, it can match these two together.

This same system also helps fraud, suspicious activity on one card helps stop it on another. But the banks do know all linked accounts, it isn't as simple as only using the information actually on the card. Certain other companies join in to the system too, which is why some loyalty cards can be used, as they too are recognised by the system. Without going into the reasons, as the banks like to keep a lot of this secret. But, trust me on this, the reason a card is needed is for an ID check. Some systems do need the actual payment card, as the company is not willing to pay for the "any card" system, but railways do pay for this, so any named bank card can be used for ID

Sorry but this is mostly nonsense.

Names are not matched to cards in the vast majority of transactions in the UK.

I don't use my real name on loyalty cards, and neither do I use my real name on TOC website accounts. The name on my nectar card is completely unrelated to my actual name and I did use it to collect a train ticket a few years ago.

I also don't bother typing in my name for any online purchases where it asks for the name of cardholder, mainly because I'm lazy and it's much faster to just type X rather than 20 characters, since the name is not checked.

Lloyds does not know I have an account at Natwest. It would be a breach of Data Protection laws for them to know this. All they can see is information sent by all banks to the three Credit Reference Agencies, which is a limited subset of data relating to how I have conducted my accounts at other financial instutitions. In fact, until recently, Lloyds didn't even know I had an account at Halifax, which they are entitled to do because they are both part of the same banking group and I agreed for them to share my data!

If a rail ticket is set to same card collection, then only that card number will work. Some card companies issue supplementary cards with the same number but a different name, for example your pet's name (my dog has a Nationwide credit card - I started the process of requesting one to see what information was required, and before I knew it I had actually submitted the request, and the card arrived!) I then used my dog's card to collect a ticket booked with my card and it worked, because the number is the same and the name is not checked.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Sorry but this is mostly nonsense.

Names are not matched to cards in the vast majority of transactions in the UK.

I don't use my real name on loyalty cards, and neither do I use my real name on TOC website accounts. The name on my nectar card is completely unrelated to my actual name and I did use it to collect a train ticket a few years ago.

I also don't bother typing in my name for any online purchases where it asks for the name of cardholder, mainly because I'm lazy and it's much faster to just type X rather than 20 characters, since the name is not checked.

Lloyds does not know I have an account at Natwest. It would be a breach of Data Protection laws for them to know this. All they can see is information sent by all banks to the three Credit Reference Agencies, which is a limited subset of data relating to how I have conducted my accounts at other financial instutitions. In fact, until recently, Lloyds didn't even know I had an account at Halifax, which they are entitled to do because they are both part of the same banking group and I agreed for them to share my data!

If a rail ticket is set to same card collection, then only that card number will work. Some card companies issue supplementary cards with the same number but a different name, for example your pet's name (my dog has a Nationwide credit card - I started the process of requesting one to see what information was required, and before I knew it I had actually submitted the request, and the card arrived!) I then used my dog's card to collect a ticket booked with my card and it worked, because the number is the same and the name is not checked.

The banks share a lot of data for fraud protection. They are not in breach of data protection for this. They may not know the full details of other bank accounts, but they know enough to know it is you. There are money laundering and ID laws they have to adhere to. A card with the same number is clearly the same account, and therefore will be acceptable as ID. They need to know it is you and/or you have the payment card, to ensure it isn't someone trying their luck online with a card number. If it is you (ID check with any card) or any card on your account, either is fine

 

[island]

Also the banks will be livid as it is a compulsory ID check for them, expect the banks to start claiming all transactions back that haven't been ID checked properly by card once they find out the rail companies are not doing it correctly.

No, no they won’t.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Is it still only TPE that offers free postage? Do any of the ones that are available through cashback sites?

 

[Paul Kelly]

GWR offers free postage.

 

[PermitToTravel]

That's not correct. The machines cannot read what your name is and do not reconcile it with the booking. It's either the card number matches or it doesn't.

Wrong.

A name can be read from a chip and PIN card. I've read my name from all of my debit cards in the past, with free software (cardpeek) and a cheap smartcard reader.

It would be extremely helpful if everybody could not make assumptions/guesses and state them as though they're facts... it would be good to know what the actual state of play is with regards to cardholder name verification.

 

[AlterEgo]

Wrong.

A name can be read from a chip and PIN card. I've read my name from all of my debit cards in the past, with free software (cardpeek) and a cheap smartcard reader.

It would be extremely helpful if everybody could not make assumptions/guesses and state them as though they're facts... it would be good to know what the actual state of play is with regards to cardholder name verification.

Can you confirm if you know that the *TVMs* reconcile cardholder name with the booking, or just that *a* piece of software that you have at home may enable the card to be read? I have specific experience in the area of TVM and TOD functionality, which tells me that TVMs do not and cannot reconcile card names with the booking, so would welcome any update. I made a specific and detailed post.

I was not making a guess, and do not post things as fact on this forum unless I have a good reason to believe them to be so.

 

[PermitToTravel]

You said they cannot read the name. If I've misunderstood this assertion then I apologise for that. It is possible to do so.

I've never heard of TVMs doing it before and am pleased to see that this matches your experience. It would be nice to be able to reconcile this with Deafdoggie's claims (although I must say it seems unlikely in the extreme that a TVM could read a name from a Nectar card!)

 

[Deafdoggie]

I guess different machines do different things depending on the company who programmed them.
But I have seen tickets collected with a nectar. And personally have collected a booking with a card from a different bank.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yes, I've personally collected tickets with a Nectar card too. Doesn't mean the machine checked the name!

 

[Deafdoggie]

But if it doesn't, then that step of the process is entirely superfluous, and designed purely to drag out the transaction and make ticket office queues longer. That step has a purpose, and it is designed to check ID, not to annoy the queuing passengers behind

 

[Cletus]

Is it still only TPE that offers free postage? Do any of the ones that are available through cashback sites?

Southeastern's postage is free.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, I've personally collected tickets with a Nectar card too. Doesn't mean the machine checked the name!

If you collected tickets using a Nectar card it means that the booking was set to 'any card' collection or that the card check for 'same card' collection was not being enforced (something that happened on Worldline machines for a significant period a few years back). For same card collection the only check is that the card number is the same as that used for the booking.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Virgin at least, and others, happily tell you any card in your name is fine. If it’s not an ID check what’s the point? And if you put someone else’s card in it rejects it, why?

 

[Haywain]

Virgin at least, and others, happily tell you any card in your name is fine. If it’s not an ID check what’s the point? And if you put someone else’s card in it rejects it, why?

For ToD there are two settings which are commonly used - one is 'same card' which requires exactly the same card as used for the purchase and the other is 'any card' which is self explanatory. There is no option for 'any card in the same name', even in the settings that are not commonly used.

 

[Deafdoggie]

So you are saying it exists purely to delay the ticket sales process? I don't see why they can't do a "any card in same name" option like other industries. But certainly solely to slow down sales and build up a queue seems ridiculous.

 

[Haywain]

So you are saying it exists purely to delay the ticket sales process? I don't see why they can't do a "any card in same name" option like other industries. But certainly solely to slow down sales and build up a queue seems ridiculous.

I'm not saying anything of the sort, you are. I'm just telling you how the system works.

 

[Deafdoggie]

OK, what is the point of inserting any old card into the slot if it is not to just waste time? And if it can be any old card, why does it reject cards in someone else's name?

 

[PermitToTravel]

So you are saying it exists purely to delay the ticket sales process? I don't see why they can't do a "any card in same name" option like other industries.

It would be difficult to check the name programmatically - it's stored differently on different cards (combinations of title, initial, which middle names are omitted, etc). A few of my friends have cards with their nickname (mononyms woo ) stamped into the card and encoded on the chip.

Further, this is just chip and PIN cards. The standard for other things with magstripes will be different - supermarket loyalty cards have no need to store the name on the stripe and I'd be quite surprised if they do.

OK, what is the point of inserting any old card into the slot if it is not to just waste time?

For same-card collection, the purposes are obvious. Any-card collection is stupid and shouldn't be a thing - it really would be simpler if merely entering the password would do the job.

Am I going crazy, or does anyone else remember in the past being able to collect a ticket by inserting a card and (if it was the only booking) not needing to enter the reference?

 

[Deafdoggie]

It would be difficult to check the name programmatically - it's stored differently on different cards (combinations of title, initial, which middle names are omitted, etc). A few of my friends have cards with their nickname (mononyms woo ) stamped into the card and encoded on the chip.

Further, this is just chip and PIN cards. The standard for other things with magstripes will be different - supermarket loyalty cards have no need to store the name on the stripe and I'd be quite surprised if they do.

For same-card collection, the purposes are obvious. Any-card collection is stupid and shouldn't be a thing - it really would be simpler if merely entering the password would do the job.

Am I going crazy, or does anyone else remember in the past being able to collect a ticket by inserting a card and (if it was the only booking) not needing to enter the reference?

It can be done for "any named card". Or possibly, more accurately, "any named card that the system recognises as the same name" but it isn't as catchy! This can vary, depending on the card encoder. But cards that are registered to the same name, even if they don't have that name on them, can be identified.

I remember being able to collect with just the payment card. I don't see why you can't just collect with the number. I can see why you need both. I can see why "any named card..." But I don't understand why "any card at all that you have found somewhere could be any name" is an option at all.

 

[Haywain]

The time taken to enter a card, in the case of 'any card' collection, is miniscule compared with the time most users take to find and enter the collection reference.

 

[Deafdoggie]

But is still time, and is still pointless!

 

[transmanche]

But I have seen tickets collected with a nectar. And personally have collected a booking with a card from a different bank.

Back in the day, I often used a Tesco Ireland Clubcard. But that was when it appeared to be 'same card, no reference required' or 'any card plus booking reference'.

But I don't understand why "any card at all that you have found somewhere could be any name" is an option at all.

I would have thought that was fairly obvious: it is to provide for an audit trail in the case of fraud.

If, by default, a TVM issued tickets with only a booking reference, then it would be hard to prove it was not you who collected them in the case of a fraud. If that TVM can record that the holder of card X entered the booking reference to obtain the tickets, then (if necessary), card X can be identified. This could enable the police (or whoever) to trace the holder.

So, using my earlier example, if there had been a query about who actually collected the tickets, the TVM could show which card was used. The card number would identify that it was a Tesco Ireland Clubcard and that could lead to identifying that it was me (or someone who had my Clubcard) who collected the tickets.