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Free / priv travel on Grand Central

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plcd1

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Apologies in advance for raking up this issue again. I have searched through the forum advice and previous posts to try to ascertain whether free tickets (boxes) and / or priv fares are valid on Grand Central services.

I think the official answer is "no" but the last posts saying this date back to 2013 and the offical ATOC documents are as clear as mud so just wondering if there's been any change. I have seen that some people have used GC on the old "nod and a wink" basis but I just want to be clear on official policy.

Thanks
 
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Minilad

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I now get free travel on GC as part of my company reciprocal arrangement but I have used PRIV ALRs on GC in the past with no issues. And that wasn't using the "nod and a wink" method either but by showing the ticket when to asked by the guard
 
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Mr395008

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Until recently unofficially it was a yes but now you've got a very small chance in getting away with PRIV on GC.
 
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RJ

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Minilad said:
I now get free travel on GC as part of my company reciprocal arrangement but I have used PRIV ALRs on GC in the past with no issues. And that wasn't using the "nod and a wink" method either but by showing the ticket when to asked by the guard
Click to expand...

The guard accepting the ticket doesn't necessarily mean it's valid.
 
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JamesTT

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What about protected staff. That had a residence pass for the route GC covers or would they have to use an alternative TOC
 
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grid56126

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JamesTT said:
I suppose if they do accept the Guard should endorse the ticket, to prevent issues arising with barrier or revenue staff
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Endorsing boxes would be fun and any other ticket endorsement would simply create political issues. The facts are straight forward, GC is an open access operator and they don't take priv. There has been a lot of toing and froing with the offical stance, for a while they would accept priv but not boxes. I have travelled twice on priv, once York to Sunderland and back when the 47s were out and that as after after asking the guard if it was valid (not if I could hop on with priv) and secondly from Bradford to Donny. I had a box valid on the day, strolled up and asked the guard if I could use a priv on the service and he said priv was fine but boxes not. I chinged up, happy that I got a reduction. In both cases I would have willingly coughed full fare and was prepared to do so and I would never just get on and flash with confidence, that;s just not fair on the staff.

the only time I have done this with open access staff was with Wrexham / Shropshire and that was after getting an email response from them saying they welcomed staff as they were trying to boost numbers and would be grateful if I brought something from the buffet. Silver service breakfast served at your table, three coaches down from the buffet next to the 67 with no other passengers in you coach was well worth the £12!!! I made many other WSMR journeys, all armed with the emails (updated for clarity every few months) and partook of plenty of grub as well.. . . . .
 
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bnm

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If someone is travelling on a PRIV discounted 'Any Permitted' ticket, or a PRIV ALR do Grand Central still get some ORCATS revenue?

Does applying the discount stop GC getting a share of the revenue that would, if undiscounted, give them some? Is ORCATS that clever?
 
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greatkingrat

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bnm said:
If someone is travelling on a PRIV discounted 'Any Permitted' ticket, or a PRIV ALR do Grand Central still get some ORCATS revenue?

Does applying the discount stop GC getting a share of the revenue that would, if undiscounted, give them some? Is ORCATS that clever?
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point. A similar issue could occur with a Gold Card discounted London - Birmingham ticket which is not valid on Virgin even though they would normally get the vast majority of the revenue.
 
Mutant Lemming

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So if you were to ask for a PRIV on board and were refused the only action that could be taken would be for the on board fare to be charged?
 
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yorkie

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Several GC Guards have told people I've been with that PRIV discounted tickets are fine. We used to have some GC Guards on this forum who said the same thing.
bnm said:
If someone is travelling on a PRIV discounted 'Any Permitted' ticket, or a PRIV ALR do Grand Central still get some ORCATS revenue?

Does applying the discount stop GC getting a share of the revenue that would, if undiscounted, give them some? Is ORCATS that clever?
Click to expand...
Good point. I suspect they're not excluded from the ORCATS revenue but it would be interesting to find out.

Of course, a lack of revenue allocation doesn't determine validity (GC won't get anything from a Poppleton to York Season plus a York to Peterborough SSR, plus Peterborough to York SSR, but are compelled to accept the combination) but receiving some revenue would be evidence of implied validity, in my opinion.
 
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bnm

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I too suspect they're not excluded from the ORCATS revenue when the discount is applied. So if they enforce the 'no PRIV on GC' rule they could be getting money for nothing.
 
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yorkie

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Here's the view of a Guard from the early days of GC, which is a view I agree with.
BOSCH said:
If by "privs" you mean your "boxes" then no, however if you bought a priv open single/return with your TOC card then it will be accepted as it is an inter available ticket ! ;)
Click to expand...
I'm sure I would have heard if this reality had changed, whatever any mandarins say ;)
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Mutant Lemming said:
So if you were to ask for a PRIV on board and were refused the only action that could be taken would be for the on board fare to be charged?
Click to expand...

Grand Central allow passengers to buy tickets on board, thus a "full range" of fares should be available, albeit without a PRIV discount.
 
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bnm

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That should be challenged then. Grand Central should not be taking revenue and not providing a service.

And it's not opinion that many GC Guards accept PRIV.
 
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grid56126

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bnm said:
That should be challenged then. Grand Central should not be taking revenue and not providing a service.

And it's not opinion that many GC Guards accept PRIV.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should speak to ATOC, the company that hosts the PDF then. I rather suspect that they are fully aware of the ramifications.

Priv acceptance has diddly squat to do with Orcats raids and is 100% based around reciprocal arrangements and payments by the company and staff (tax) in the same way that FIP and FOC arrangements exist. ATOC were peeved when WSMR allowed staff on their trains and that was not for ORCATS reasons.
 
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CyrusWuff

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It's also worth noting that the three Hs (Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express and Hull Trains) all accept PRIVs, despite being Open Access Operators. Granted that's more of a technicality on the part of HC and HX, given Airport Junction - Heathrow is their own infrastructure.

So what's the difference between HT (owned by First) and GC (owned by Arriva)? Answers on a postcard or back of a stuck down envelope...
 
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Clip

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CyrusWuff said:
So what's the difference between HT (owned by First) and GC (owned by Arriva)? Answers on a postcard or back of a stuck down envelope...
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Nothing apart from the name of the parent company however each OA operator are entitled to put in restrictions as they so wish that may differ from a TOC are they not ?
 
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Mag_seven

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Mutant Lemming

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CyrusWuff said:
It's also worth noting that the three Hs (Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express and Hull Trains) all accept PRIVs, despite being Open Access Operators. Granted that's more of a technicality on the part of HC and HX, given Airport Junction - Heathrow is their own infrastructure.

So what's the difference between HT (owned by First) and GC (owned by Arriva)? Answers on a postcard or back of a stuck down envelope...
Click to expand...

I thought Heathrow Express didn't and Heathrow Connect only between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington ? .also on certain Hull Trains you have to check with the guard that space is available after all standard fare paying passengers had boarded.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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I've obtained (and used) Priv-discounted HEx tickets in the past with no trouble, I don't know if the state of play has changed recently mind.
 
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Mag_seven

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MidnightFlyer said:
I've obtained (and used) Priv-discounted HEx tickets in the past with no trouble, I don't know if the state of play has changed recently mind.
Click to expand...

See "where can I go" guide on ATOC website - About page 14/15 it states:

"Heathrow Express Privilege tickets may be purchased from the Heathrow Express booking offices at Heathrow and Paddington."
 
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