Freeloading......Or is it?.

[james60059]

Hi Folks,

With many preserved railways having announced dates for their gala's this year whether it be steam or diesel or particular running days, these will obviously attract the lineside photographers.

On one occasion last year (and even last week at one point) it caused a bit of a debate on social media with the term freeloading being used quite a bit whereby lineside photographers - whilst taking photo's are NOT (allegedly) contributing financially to the railway concerned.

I'd like to know what are members thoughts on those who take photos at the lineside but don't contribute to the railway?.

Personally, I'm happy to make a contribution - The GC for instance I'll use the Butler Henderson cafe or make a donation if the volunteers come round with a bucket to the popular lineside spots..

 

[EM2]

They may not be contributing directly in this particular case, but that's not to say that many enthusiasts won't be contributing to that particular heritage line at all. They may have visited numerous times over the years and may well do so again.
Having said that, a heritage railway must realise that there will always be people that want to photograph their trains and unless they always run their trains through tunnels, it is unavoidable that some will do so from lineside vantage points.

 

[shredder1]

Hi Folks,

With many preserved railways having announced dates for their gala's this year whether it be steam or diesel or particular running days, these will obviously attract the lineside photographers.

On one occasion last year (and even last week at one point) it caused a bit of a debate on social media with the term freeloading being used quite a bit whereby lineside photographers - whilst taking photo's are NOT (allegedly) contributing financially to the railway concerned.

I'd like to know what are members thoughts on those who take photos at the lineside but don't contribute to the railway?.

Personally, I'm happy to make a contribution - The GC for instance I'll use the Butler Henderson cafe or make a donation if the volunteers come round with a bucket to the popular lineside spots..

I go lineside and buy lineside passes where possible, I join railway societies, have spent 8 years as a volunteer for one of them, and have life memberships on two of them, I buy food in station cafes and also buy books and other items while I`m there, and also ride on the trains, I always buy tickets at galas, even if i don`t get chance to ride, I also attend photographic shoots, and have gone round with the bucket at Burrs on the East lancs and witnessed guys with £3k camera`s throwing pennies in the bucket, miserable sods, and I usually tell them so, I`m a rail enthusiast, supporter and photographer just the same as many thousands of others out there, but yes we have our share of free loaders, it goes with the territory.

 

[Bertie the bus]

A couple of examples of having ‘freeloader’ shouted at me on heritage lines:

1. The Class 47 50th Anniversary on the MNR. I decided to make a weekend of it and use the day with the better weather to take photos. The weather on the Saturday was glorious so I took photos and travelled on the trains on the Sunday. I wouldn’t have ever considered spending 2 days travelling so if I hadn’t spent Saturday photographing I’d only have gone one day so the railway got what it would have always got – the price of a one day rover.
2. Last year’s NVR Diesel Gala. As the forecast was good and the things I was most interested in photographing were on the early runs I decided to get there first thing and take photos. When I’d done this I spent the rest of the day travelling on the trains.

So the veg were wrong but then if I cared what they thought I wouldn’t do everything in my power to avoid them.

 

[PeterC]

With many events in many interest areas there are "fringe" activities that can be accessed without supporting the event that creates them. The "freeloader" discussion comes up on discussion boards for all of them.

I would class the "freeloader" as somebody who expects to be able to enjoy his aspect of the event without making any contribution (and probably screams the loudest when the event goes bust!). Of course the rest of us can't tell who will support the event at some other time of day and who is just enjoying what he can get for nothing.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Of course the rest of us can't tell who will support the event at some other time of day and who is just enjoying what he can get for nothing.

So with no knowledge of who they are or what they contribute it’s best to judge them anyway simply because they own a camera? Hence my use of the word veg.

 

[GB]

I go lineside and buy lineside passes where possible, I join railway societies, have spent 8 years as a volunteer for one of them, and have life memberships on two of them, I buy food in station cafes and also buy books and other items while I`m there, and also ride on the trains, I always buy tickets at galas, even if i don`t get chance to ride, I also attend photographic shoots, and have gone round with the bucket at Burrs on the East lancs and witnessed guys with £3k camera`s throwing pennies in the bucket, miserable sods, and I usually tell them so, I`m a rail enthusiast, supporter and photographer just the same as many thousands of others out there, but yes we have our share of free loaders, it goes with the territory.

You don't know that person therefore you do not know what they contribute at other times, and frankly it's none of your buisness how much they choose to donate.

 

[james60059]

A nice varied response there, thanks.

It's obvious from my point of view that enthusiasts do and don't contribute which of course is entirely up to the individual concerned and it's not for anyone to say otherwise.

With regards to going round with a bucket collecting from photographers, assuming they're on a public right of way, I'm not too sure with the ELR locations but taking the Great Central as an example, locations like Kinchley Lane or Woodthorpe (which by the sounds of things is on borrowed time anyway sadly), do volunteers who do this get told where to go as the photographers are on public land and therefore the railway has no jurisdiction over them? - again this was another point raised when it was mentioned and one guy blatantly said "If I'm on public land or a right of way they'll be told to **** Off".

I think what started it off was it was said in an article about the Keighley and Worth Valley charging something like £25 to photograph the Flying Scotsman if and when it visits, I haven't actually read or seen the article so not 100% sure exactly what it said whether it was overall lineside photography or a private shoot.

 

[shredder1]

You don't know that person therefore you do not know what they contribute at other times, and frankly it's none of your buisness how much they choose to donate.

And this is exactly why many preserved railways charge a set fee, personally I would have the goal, regardless of what I contributed at other times.

 

[shredder1]

A nice varied response there, thanks.

It's obvious from my point of view that enthusiasts do and don't contribute which of course is entirely up to the individual concerned and it's not for anyone to say otherwise.

With regards to going round with a bucket collecting from photographers, assuming they're on a public right of way, I'm not too sure with the ELR locations but taking the Great Central as an example, locations like Kinchley Lane or Woodthorpe (which by the sounds of things is on borrowed time anyway sadly), do volunteers who do this get told where to go as the photographers are on public land and therefore the railway has no jurisdiction over them? - again this was another point raised when it was mentioned and one guy blatantly said "If I'm on public land or a right of way they'll be told to **** Off".

I think what started it off was it was said in an article about the Keighley and Worth Valley charging something like £25 to photograph the Flying Scotsman if and when it visits, I haven't actually read or seen the article so not 100% sure exactly what it said whether it was overall lineside photography or a private shoot.

The Worth Valley £25 is a one off fee for those holding lineside permits, if people are on public land or their own private land this won`t apply of course. In the case of the ELR these run past were on accessible private/public land, so contributions rely on good will and nearly everyone throws a fiver in the bucket, realising the time and effort that goes into organising these things. On principle if I couldnt afford to chip in the same as everyone else, then I wouldnt attend, but hey that`s just me.

 

[shredder1]

And this is exactly why many preserved railways charge a set fee, personally I would have the goal, regardless of what I contributed at other times.

apologies that should read "wouldnt".

 

[Johnny_w]

I think it's fair to say that *some* enthusiasts have a reputation for *only* going public linesiding.

I've done both over the course of a weekend. Both bashing and photting. As someone said above it's impossible to make a snap judgement. But I notice the same faces on platforms and lineside and never 'on the train'.

So quiet possibly people get to know those that never seem to actually financially support the railways.

However people yelling freeloader from trains, that is reprehensible.

JW

 

[GB]

However people yelling freeloader from trains, that is reprehensible.

JW

I don't understand it. Rail enthusiasts tend to get a bad rap from the rest of society without the need for further divisions in itself.

 

[Harbornite]

I've just seen this thread. I usually go lineside or stay on stations at galas but I'm not a freeloader because I'll use the railway to get there.

 

[Bevan Price]

I think that some heritage lines may be their own worst enemies, by doing things like running "demonstration freight" trains at gala events. That encourages more linesiders, and often irritates the fare-paying passengers, because:

The freight train messes-up the timetable:
1. By increasing the time interval between passenger trains.
2. By (all too common) late-running.

And it also reduces the opportunity to travel behind some of the interesting locos - particularly if some buffoon puts the most interesting "visiting loco" on freight duties for much of the day.

OK - let them run occasional freights - but as "paid-for" photo events rather than during gala events.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I've been called a freeloader, while stood on a platform at the KWVR, waiting for a train which I was going to catch with my paid ticket. Some of the fluorescent jacketed lot are just numpties and their negative attitudes are often more damaging to the railways than freeloaders, particularly when they voice them around visiting families who probably contribute far more to the railway with souvenirs and food.

Ultimately the railway doesn't lose any revenue from freeloaders, so people should just ignore them. They drive to the railway. Stand in silence. Get very upset when the lighting is not perfect or someone is leaning out of a train window. Take their photos. Go home.

There are proper freeloaders at many events. You see them at airshows for instance, stood peering over fences on big ladders they bring just for that purpose. You see them at live events, historic sites, open air museums etc. taking photos through fences.