Freight Train Breakdown at Shap 13.9.22

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was caught up in disruption today on the WCML (quite apart from timetable variations and staff shortage) north of Preston northbound, due to a "freight train failure".
Looking at RTT, it looks like 4S43, the Daventry-Mossend Tesco container service failed at or near Shap, and took 2 hours to clear to the loop at Penrith to let trains past.
Four Avanti 390s and two TPE 397s were held at Preston and Lancaster for periods up to 2 hours before the line was cleared.
Does anybody know the cause of the failure?

PS Virgin Trains is not quite dead.
This was the PIS for platform 3c at Preston today.

Not in service.
www.virgintrains.co.uk

 

[Boodiggy]

Not sure on how technical it was but control log says loss of power on loco 88005

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks for the info.
Class 88s not perfect after all...

 

[Falcon1200]

Looking at RTT, it looks like 4S43, the Daventry-Mossend Tesco container service failed at or near Shap

It was indeed 4S43 which failed today and delayed me by 100 minutes; 4S43 being the very same train which failed and delayed me 4 (four) hours last Summer! Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

 

[skyhigh]

Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

You're asking that because a service failed twice with over a year gap?

 

[Falcon1200]

You're asking that because a service failed twice with over a year gap?

So failing and blocking the Down WCML for several hours, delaying countless passenger trains, is OK if it doesn't happen too often?

BTW, on the occasion last year when 4S43 failed I was on the 1110 ex Euston, not due anywhere near 4S43's failure location until around 4 hours later; Yet we were still delayed a grand total of 245 minutes! I was never able to establish just why that particular incident became such an utter shambles, but perhaps it is understandable why I do not hold 4S43, or its operator, in high regard.

 

[ABB125]

I was also delayed by this incident, being held at Lancaster on 9S43 London-Edinburgh for 90 minutes (on top of the 13 minutes we were late already!). However, it does mean that my northbound journey will be refunded.
Then I was caught up in some sort of trespass incident at Edinburgh, which effectively resulted in me being 3 hours late at my destination.

@Falcon1200 given that you were at New Street around the same time as me in the morning, were you also on this train?

 

[randyrippley]

Freight needs to run on the S&C, not via Shap

 

[Bald Rick]

Freight needs to run on the S&C, not via Shap

except for time critical freight, such as the Tesco trains.

 

[ABB125]

except for time critical freight, such as the Tesco trains.

There's plenty of non-time-critical self-loading freight that could be diverted via Settle, leaving more space via Shap for far more important things like replacing class 88s with quadruple-headed class 37s for me to film...

 

[GB]

So failing and blocking the Down WCML for several hours, delaying countless passenger trains, is OK if it doesn't happen too often?

That’s not what they said though is it. They were simply commenting on your comment that some how a loco failing twice in a year may mean focs are not servicing their equipment correctly.

 

[800001]

It was indeed 4S43 which failed today and delayed me by 100 minutes; 4S43 being the very same train which failed and delayed me 4 (four) hours last Summer! Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

Do cars, buses, lorries or planes ever get faults or break down?

Trains can get faults you know!!!

 

[Falcon1200]

given that you were at New Street around the same time as me in the morning, were you also on this train?

Indeed I was, only to Carlisle (fortunately!)

Trains can get faults you know!!!

Yes; Having spent 30 of my 38 years on the railway in Control, I know only too well the myriad of things which delay trains, many nothing to do with the train operator of course - But this one, and last year, were!

They were simply commenting on your comment that some how a loco failing twice in a year may mean focs are not servicing their equipment correctly.

I travel south from Scotland roughly once a month, not always via the WCML. So since June last year, of around say 12 trips home, 2 have been severely delayed by the failure of the same train, 4S43 - 1 sixth of all journeys! One would have thought that after the disgraceful failure which delayed trains 245, and more, minutes last year, more attention might have been paid, especially given the implications of a failure on the WCML.

However I do not blame only DRS, it is an utter disgrace that we do not have bi-di signalling on the double track sections of the WCML. I spent several years as the Controller responsible for the WCML in Scotland and if I had a pound for every time I pointed out how much delay this would have saved, I could have retired 20 years earlier.....

 

[The Planner]

Freight needs to run on the S&C, not via Shap

Unless you are gauge clearing and likely rebuilding most of the tunnels, Intermodal will be going WCML.

However I do not blame only DRS, it is an utter disgrace that we do not have bi-di signalling on the double track sections of the WCML. I spent several years as the Controller responsible for the WCML in Scotland and if I had a pound for every time I pointed out how much delay this would have saved, I could have retired 20 years earlier.....

I would expect it when ETCS comes about, Warrington, Preston and Carlisle have to be done sooner rather than later and are being worked on now.

 

[railfan99]

However I do not blame only DRS, it is an utter disgrace that we do not have bi-di signalling on the double track sections of the WCML. I spent several years as the Controller responsible for the WCML in Scotland and if I had a pound for every time I pointed out how much delay this would have saved, I could have retired 20 years earlier.....

In Australia, on the Sydney to Melbourne main line (960 kilometres) that carries intermodals (Melbourne to Brisbane, and some Sydney to Adelaide/Perths or vv. plus much grain, and some cement and limestone plus passenger trains, the Australian Rail Track Corporation (a government business enterprise) hasn't installed bi-directional signalling but after some train failures that caused big delays in one direction, it's gradually (not before time) installing more crossovers (with associated signals) so trains can more easily in shorter sections switch from one track to the other.

The UK may well have shorter sections, and you have alternative routes as pointed out by some above, but is installing more crossovers a feasible solution to assist in minimising delays?

It'd be useless if there's a derailment blocking both tracks, but perhaps helpful if it's "just" a loco failure.

 

[Falcon1200]

I would expect it when ETCS comes about, Warrington, Preston and Carlisle have to be done sooner rather than later and are being worked on now.

That's good to know, hopefully Scotland will follow suit soon as well, and within my lifetime!

 

[The Planner]

That's good to know, hopefully Scotland will follow suit soon as well, and within my lifetime!

If the funding ever gets approved, it would be one of the above per control period.

 

[185143]

It was indeed 4S43 which failed today and delayed me by 100 minutes; 4S43 being the very same train which failed and delayed me 4 (four) hours last Summer! Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

I ended up with an unexpected night in Scotland thanks to that last Summer. I was on the TPE directly ahead of it, oblivious to the carnage unfolding behind me. Came out of 'Spoons in Kilmarnock and saw my planned Manchester TPE was cancelled. Got back to Glasgow Central and then found out the extent of the disruption. Decided against even trying to get home and booked in a Travelodge.

What was I doing yesterday... sitting on the TPE ahead of 4S43 for a day out in Glasgow! I'm taking no responsibility for either incident!

 

[ac6000cw]

Just looking at RTT around the incident time, 4S43 was about 10 minutes late at Tebay (passing at 10:13). What was I assume the rescue loco (1Z99) left Carlisle Kingmoor at 1032 and reached Shap Summit at 11:14. Then 4S43 passed Shap Harrisons Sidings at 12:14 (then got looped at Penrith for 45 minutes presumably to allow the trains behind it to overtake).

So DRS seem to have been fairly quick off the mark with the rescue loco.

Very much agree with the comments above that this part of the WCML should have bi-directional signalling to deal with this sort of issue - it's not only freight loco reliability that can stop a train...

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm taking no responsibility for either incident!

Better being on the train in front than one of the many behind!

So DRS seem to have been fairly quick off the mark with the rescue loco.

I would agree, assistance was provided as quickly as could be expected (which makes one wonder if there were earlier indications of problems with the loco....)

 

[SamYeager]

Better being on the train in front than one of the many behind!



I would agree, assistance was provided as quickly as could be expected (which makes one wonder if there were earlier indications of problems with the loco....)

Perhaps "lessons have been learnt" from previous incidents?

 

[Skiddaw]

We were delayed on a trip from Penrith to Carlisle when the train broke down at Shap earlier this year. When it finally struggled into Penrith one of the Avanti staff commented that it was the Train of Doom- apparently, said train is notorious for having problems.

 

[Pinus contorta]

We were delayed on a trip from Penrith to Carlisle when the train broke down at Shap earlier this year. When it finally struggled into Penrith one of the Avanti staff commented that it was the Train of Doom- apparently, said train is notorious for having problems.

From what is frequently discussed on here about Avanti services i would suggest the train of doom comment could apply to any of their services leaving Preston.

 

[Skiddaw]

From what is frequently discussed on here about Avanti services i would suggest the train of doom comment could apply to any of their services leaving Preston.

Good point well made!

 

[dave59]

88's are replaced by 2x66/68 at the moment. Is this in connection with the failure?

 

[ABB125]

88's are replaced by 2x66/68 at the moment. Is this in connection with the failure?

Probably more to do with the cost of electricity

 

[trainophile]

I was caught up in this on Tuesday. Stuck for about 40 minutes at Preston, then another 20 or so at Lancaster. Arrived Carlisle well over an hour late having missed my connection to Newcastle, but luckily the next one was 35 minutes later not the usual hour, so no real harm done. Did my delay repay claim while still on the train once the hour had passed. Instant acknowledgement, claim acceptance email the next day, and the money was in my bank this morning. Can't say fairer than that, especially as it wasn't Avant's fault.

Everyone was very good natured despite the obvious inconvenience. Frequent announcements even when there was nothing new to report. Whoever the TM was on that train, well done.

 

[ABB125]

I was caught up in this on Tuesday. Stuck for about 40 minutes at Preston, then another 20 or so at Lancaster. Arrived Carlisle well over an hour late having missed my connection to Newcastle, but luckily the next one was 35 minutes later not the usual hour, so no real harm done. Did my delay repay claim while still on the train once the hour had passed. Instant acknowledgement, claim acceptance email the next day, and the money was in my bank this morning. Can't say fairer than that, especially as it wasn't Avant's fault.

Everyone was very good natured despite the obvious inconvenience. Frequent announcements even when there was nothing new to report. Whoever the TM was on that train, well done.

The only thing Avanti seem to be good at is delay repay. But they do get a lot of practise at it, unlike, say, operating trains...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was caught up in this on Tuesday. Stuck for about 40 minutes at Preston, then another 20 or so at Lancaster. Arrived Carlisle well over an hour late having missed my connection to Newcastle, but luckily the next one was 35 minutes later not the usual hour, so no real harm done. Did my delay repay claim while still on the train once the hour had passed. Instant acknowledgement, claim acceptance email the next day, and the money was in my bank this morning. Can't say fairer than that, especially as it wasn't Avant's fault.

Everyone was very good natured despite the obvious inconvenience. Frequent announcements even when there was nothing new to report. Whoever the TM was on that train, well done.

What made me smile was that with 3 Scotland trains stopped at Preston, the following Manchester-Barrow service sneaked past on time via P5 to reach Lancaster ahead of them.
I was heading to Windermere but it was the wrong time for a through Northern service, which also could have operated.
Lancaster's through platforms were also clogged with waiting northbound trains, bar P4 which handled southbound and Barrow trains.

 

[uww11x]

Probably more to do with the cost of electricity

Electricity is actually stable on the railway at the minute at an acceptable price

That’s not what they said though is it. They were simply commenting on your comment that some how a loco failing twice in a year may mean focs are not servicing their equipment correctly.

Works both ways. Countless times trains are delayed by severe infrastructure faults on the WCML. Wise to not to throw stones from a glass house

It was indeed 4S43 which failed today and delayed me by 100 minutes; 4S43 being the very same train which failed and delayed me 4 (four) hours last Summer! Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

Possibly one of the silliest comments I have seen on this forum! They are best performing operator every year https://www.directrailservices.com/drs-on-cloud-nine-after-golden-whistle-awards/

Direct Rail Services (DRS) has been named the ‘Best Performing Rail Freight Operator’ for the ninth year running at the Golden Whistle awards.

The prestigious Golden Whistles, organised by Modern Railways and the Chartered Institution of Railway Operators, are awarded on operational performance and DRS has been, once again, recognised as the UK’s most reliable freight operator.