Front headlights on at the rear of the train

[tom1996]

I was travelling into Waterloo today, when I noticed that a Class 455 had its headlights on at the rear instead of the red lights - is this allowed? I attached a pic of the rear of the train

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not correct, but the driver probably just forgot to switch them over when changing ends. These things happen.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It's not correct, but the driver probably just forgot to switch them over when changing ends. These things happen.

Also a "fail" on the part of the under-employed non-commercial guard in failing to spot and correct it. Then again on 8-car workings they're normally based in a middle cab and may not ever see the cab ends of their train!

 

[tom1996]

I see, I was thinking surely they automatically change to rear lights when the train travels in the other direction

 

[hexagon789]

I see, I was thinking surely they automatically change to rear lights when the train travels in the other direction

Only on certain newer trains, plenty are fully manual head/tail lights.

 

[DMckduck]

Also a "fail" on the part of the under-employed non-commercial guard in failing to spot and correct it. Then again on 8-car workings they're normally based in a middle cab and may not ever see the cab ends of their train!

Why exactly would the guard be checking if the reds are on or not? Yeah it's a simple process to change it, but guards are neither responsible nor trained to check the rear cab lights are correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why exactly would the guard be checking if the reds are on or not? Yeah it's a simple process to change it, but guards are neither responsible nor trained to check the rear cab lights are correct.

It might not be technically part of their job, but you hardly need any training to know that it's white on the front and red on the back (it's only the same as every other vehicle in the world, road or rail), so a guard being helpful might just spot it anyway, if only because they absolutely should (if anywhere near the end) have a nose to see if the back display is showing the correct destination!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Also a "fail" on the part of the under-employed non-commercial guard in failing to spot and correct it. Then again on 8-car workings they're normally based in a middle cab and may not ever see the cab ends of their train!

Plenty of commercial guards also work the 455s...

 

[norbitonflyer]

In the olden days it was the guard's job to move the tail light from one end of the train to the other. I doubt many guards are left who worked on 4SUBs though!

 

[TurboMan]

It might not be technically part of their job, but you hardly need any training to know that it's white on the front and red on the back (it's only the same as every other vehicle in the world, road or rail), so a guard being helpful might just spot it anyway, if only because they absolutely should (if anywhere near the end) have a nose to see if the back display is showing the correct destination!

There are scenarios where it is white on the back and white on the front (wrong direction movement to assist a failed train), or red on the front and white on the back (wrong direction movement less than 400m). Guards won't have been trained in these, so best they leave the lights alone, or just let the driver know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are scenarios where it is white on the back and white on the front (wrong direction movement to assist a failed train), or red on the front and white on the back (wrong direction movement less than 400m). Guards won't have been trained in these, so best they leave the lights alone, or just let the driver know.

I had assumed they would tell the driver rather than just change them, yes. But noticing something wrong and not saying something wouldn't be the right approach regardless of whether it was technically their job or not.

 

[edwin_m]

I see, I was thinking surely they automatically change to rear lights when the train travels in the other direction

Only on certain newer trains, plenty are fully manual head/tail lights.

Which trains do this automatically? There used to be circumstances when a red should be displayed on the front (emergency stop for any approaching train), no light at all on the rear (front part of a divided train) or even tail plus marker lights (shunting). But do these still apply?

I had assumed they would tell the driver rather than just change them, yes. But noticing something wrong and not saying something wouldn't be the right approach regardless of whether it was technically their job or not.

I believe newer units have the lights controlled from the leading cab, but older ones can only control them from the nearest cab.

 

[LowLevel]

Why exactly would the guard be checking if the reds are on or not? Yeah it's a simple process to change it, but guards are neither responsible nor trained to check the rear cab lights are correct.

That's not correct. The rulebook states that the driver and guard are both responsible for checking that there is a red tail light displayed on the rear of the train. TW1/14.2:

"Driver, guard, train preparer:

You must make sure that there is a tail lamp that is lit at the rear of the train when it is :

- on a running line
- on a through or reception siding
- being propelled in the right direction

When two built in electric tail lights are provided, you must make sure both are lit where possible.

You must make sure that no other tail lamp is displayed at any other position."

The headlights and marker lights are the responsibility of the driver, the tail lights are the whole crew and a Train Preparer if leaving a train on a running line.

My training as a guard certainly covered bring able to operate the tail lights if need be on all traction.

At the very least they should be able to advise the driver.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I have pointed out to a guard that the train I was about to board was displaying a tail light at the front when it ran in to the station. He thanked me kindly and corrected the problem before we departed.

I have however seen a train's lights switch from white to red before it came to a stand on arival at a terminus

 

[TurboMan]

Which trains do this automatically? There used to be circumstances when a red should be displayed on the front (emergency stop for any approaching train), no light at all on the rear (front part of a divided train) or even tail plus marker lights (shunting). But do these still apply?

I believe newer units have the lights controlled from the leading cab, but older ones can only control them from the nearest cab.

The automatic setting tends to be that red lights are shown when the driver keys off. But the lights can still be set manually using the switch to override the auto setting (except on 80x where the only way to set headlights on the end of the train where the cab isn't active is to crawl around on the floor and open a cover to access an emergency headlights switch). So you can still set lights as required by the rule book for emergencies, divided trains etc.

I don't know of any units that allow the lights at the rear to be controlled from the leading cab, but plenty have an indication on the proving panel in the lead cab to show whether taillights are being displayed at the rear - if they're not, then it still involves a long walk to the other end to set them.

 

[edwin_m]

I have however seen a train's lights switch from white to red before it came to a stand on arival at a terminus

I've seen that too, but only when it's running into the platform and there's no chance of it being misinterpreted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen that too, but only when it's running into the platform and there's no chance of it being misinterpreted.

The other one I've seen is units coming off the siding at Bletchley into P5 with shunt lights (red and white) on both ends, with this being changed once in the platform. If that move counts as a shunt it may well be correct, I'm not quite sure.

 

[Andrew S]

I've once reported via twitter white lights showing at the rear of a southeastern train traveling out of London Bridge. They thanked me and advised that they would contact the train crew urgently.

 

[driver9000]

Which trains do this automatically?

Desiros and 80x. There is an override to show a red light to the front on Desiro units

 

[Kneedown]

I don't know of any units that allow the lights at the rear to be controlled from the leading cab

On 222s you can switch the tail lights on at the rear from the leading cab.

 

[WarrenTManager]

It's not correct, but the driver probably just forgot to switch them over when changing ends. These things happen.

It can be correct. If the buffer stops have a certain marking, that denotes that headlights must be displayed instead of tail lights to prevent confusion between red tail lights and red signals. Waterloo South Sidings is one such place.

 

[185]

The rule book is quite clear on guards checking tail lights in the TW1 module *however*... where an operator has issued its own company local instruction mandating traincrew work that type of traction only from the centre for safety reasons and remain there, the ops standards manager should also be sharing some of the blame. Guard is called a tail lamp for a reason, and can't do that if forced to remain in the middle.