Full and standing.

[londonbridge]

I was at Clapham Junction waiting for the 18.27 to Exeter (I was going to Basingstoke). Couple of minutes before it was due it was announced as full and standing. The station announcer went on to ask passengers travelling to Woking to wait for the Alton train a few minutes behind,so that passengers travelling to Basingstoke and onwards would be able to board. I got on okay and got into the aisle. Behind me a couple with three kids,two of which were in pushchairs,got on,they then stood in the vestibule with the pushchairs completely blocking the door,preventing anyone else from getting on at that door and arguing that they couldn't move anywhere. You've guessed it,they got off at Woking. Stupid barstewards should have been told to take the kids out and fold the pushchairs up so others could actually get on the train.

 

[wintonian]

I was at Clapham Junction waiting for the 18.27 to Exeter (I was going to Basingstoke). Couple of minutes before it was due it was announced as full and standing. The station announcer went on to ask passengers travelling to Woking to wait for the Alton train a few minutes behind,so that passengers travelling to Basingstoke and onwards would be able to board. I got on okay and got into the aisle. Behind me a couple with three kids,two of which were in pushchairs,got on,they then stood in the vestibule with the pushchairs completely blocking the door,preventing anyone else from getting on at that door and arguing that they couldn't move anywhere. You've guessed it,they got off at Woking. Stupid barstewards should have been told to take the kids out and fold the pushchairs up so others could actually get on the train.

It's the same on most trains out of Waterloo during the evening peak, until they find a ay of physically increasing capacity it seems like it will unfortunately stay this way. i have even struggled to get a seat leaving gone midnight.

 

[WillPS]

I was at Clapham Junction waiting for the 18.27 to Exeter (I was going to Basingstoke). Couple of minutes before it was due it was announced as full and standing. The station announcer went on to ask passengers travelling to Woking to wait for the Alton train a few minutes behind,so that passengers travelling to Basingstoke and onwards would be able to board. I got on okay and got into the aisle. Behind me a couple with three kids,two of which were in pushchairs,got on,they then stood in the vestibule with the pushchairs completely blocking the door,preventing anyone else from getting on at that door and arguing that they couldn't move anywhere. You've guessed it,they got off at Woking. Stupid barstewards should have been told to take the kids out and fold the pushchairs up so others could actually get on the train.

This sort of thing really infuriates me.

I once got on a Northern 158 in Sheffield. For some unknown reason, 2 people had opted to use the flip down seats in the vestibule, then 2 cyclists got on and rather than politely ask them to move in to the saloon (there were loads of empty seats) they just wedged their bikes between, so the pressure door was completely blocked.

Bloody chaos.

But in this case, it's bloody parents thinking they are beyond reproach for further poisoning the planet. Happens so often when shopping, parents with buggys just cut you up.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I was at Clapham Junction waiting for the 18.27 to Exeter (I was going to Basingstoke). Couple of minutes before it was due it was announced as full and standing. The station announcer went on to ask passengers travelling to Woking to wait for the Alton train a few minutes behind,so that passengers travelling to Basingstoke and onwards would be able to board. I got on okay and got into the aisle. Behind me a couple with three kids,two of which were in pushchairs,got on,they then stood in the vestibule with the pushchairs completely blocking the door,preventing anyone else from getting on at that door and arguing that they couldn't move anywhere. You've guessed it,they got off at Woking. Stupid barstewards should have been told to take the kids out and fold the pushchairs up so others could actually get on the train.

Lets face it the train to Alton wasn't going to be any less full and there's no saying that they would have got on it. I'm making an assumption here that you don't have children. Apologies if i'm wrong.

 

[Grantham]

Lets face it the train to Alton wasn't going to be any less full and there's no saying that they would have got on it. I'm making an assumption here that you don't have children. Apologies if i'm wrong.

My sentiments exactly. No-one should be allowed to make any rule (or law or condition) unless they have at least four children!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Lets face it the train to Alton wasn't going to be any less full and there's no saying that they would have got on it. I'm making an assumption here that you don't have children. Apologies if i'm wrong.

buggys ruld the world! Same on busses. Parents who think there special and that the universe revolves round the anger me! I have a disabilitty for goodness sake and I dont go asking or expecting everybody else to be inconvenienced on my behalf.

I admit, I do sometimes play the disabled card but never to the extent of putting other passengers like this. Equally, a parent who boards a train, bus, gets into a lift etc expecting the rest of the population to jump simply because they have a buggy is not popular with me. However, if another disabled person, older person, papenger with luggage or even a considderate, wel mannered pram pusher needs help, i'll do my best

 

[Greenback]

Lets face it the train to Alton wasn't going to be any less full and there's no saying that they would have got on it. I'm making an assumption here that you don't have children. Apologies if i'm wrong.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask parents with buggies to either fold them up or wait for the next service. It is their choice whether to comply or not get on the train.

 

[Express Link]

In these safety aware and risk adverse times I have often wondered what the safe capacity of a train is? What would the likely outcome be if say at 80mph the driver had to make an emergency brake application if people are standing there are bound to be injuries but have never known staff try and stop any more people from getting on what I would regard as a dangerously overcrowded train.

 

[Greenback]

In these safety aware and risk adverse times I have often wondered what the safe capacity of a train is? What would the likely outcome be if say at 80mph the driver had to make an emergency brake application if people are standing there are bound to be injuries but have never known staff try and stop any more people from getting on what I would regard as a dangerously overcrowded train.

By what standards do you say a service is dangerously overcrowded rather than just overcrowded?

Would you be happy if you were told you could not get on a train because it was too dangerous, even though you could still squeeze on?

 

[142094]

Depends on the type of train - they will all have a safe crush load, although many people presume a train that is full and standing to be unsafe. For example with the Take That concerts at Sunderland, people were complaining that the Metros were dangerously 'full and overcrowded', but these have a crush load of around 300.

My advice to anyone who feels unsafe due to a heavily loaded train - get the next one.

 

[Captain Chaos]

In these safety aware and risk adverse times I have often wondered what the safe capacity of a train is? What would the likely outcome be if say at 80mph the driver had to make an emergency brake application if people are standing there are bound to be injuries but have never known staff try and stop any more people from getting on what I would regard as a dangerously overcrowded train.

I have been on several trains where the emergency brake has applied at speeds exceding 80 mph in full and standing environments and can safely say that the emergency brake is not powerful enough for people to fall and bump into things or cause any injury. You certainly feel it but it won't cause you injury.

The only thing likely to cause enough force to injure standees in this scenario I would have thought would be from a collision with a very large object. But then of course injuries would probably be sustained to those sitting as well I would imagine.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

My advice to anyone who feels unsafe due to a heavily loaded train - get the next one.

Was so tempted to tell someone this the other week when she told me I should be ashamed that we are allowed to cram so many people into a train. I don't make the rules/laws...

 

[142094]

Was so tempted to tell someone this the other week when she told me I should be ashamed that we are allowed to cram so many people into a train. I don't make the rules/laws...

Every person will have a different idea on what is safe and what isn't. I hear people complaining often that the train is dangerous due to being overcrowded, yet that person still has decided to travel. Next time I'll tell them about how, in comparison to driving, the train is actually very safe.

Of course this situation isn't helped at all by the occasional railway-bashing by the Press when it is a slow news day - trot out the same bull about overcrowding etc etc etc.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I'll agree it's not perfect, I don't like being on a crowded train anymore than the next person, I had the privilege of standing for 2hours on a crowded train the other day, but in buying a ticket you enter a contract that says you're not guaranteed a seat, and the only way we can get round that is to abolish walk up fares, not so sure that would go down well. If you don't seem something to be safe why partake in it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Anyone unfortunate enough to try and board a Bolton direction train at Salford Crescent in the evening rush hour knows all about "standing on trains" to their cost.

 

[Anon Mouse]

My wife has a very different perception of full and standing. In China trains can be jam packed for days as opposed to hours. She once traveled from Jinan to Shanghai during Spring Festival and she had to stand overnight on a, IIRC 20 hour journey. I myself travelled from Chengdu to Beijing and it seemed that the seating area was full and standing for 36 hours!

 

[BestWestern]

There are often issues with pushchairs and parents who refuse to fold them. This causes frequent problems on busy summer weekend trains at seaside locations, and I have to say I have very little patience for most of these people. If there is a young child fast asleep in the buggy, provided the parents are polite about it, I'll do my best to accomodate them, if I can safely do so. But more often than not, it's pure laziness, the favourite excuse being "I can't/don't know how to fold it up...". Not to worry, you'll have half an hour or so on the platform waiting for the next train to work it out! I also get massively peeved at the ones who happily accept a request to board the train and put the buggy in a specified place, only to then completely ignore everything you have said because they assume that once they're on the train they become untouchable. Oh how wrong they are....!!

 

[Anon Mouse]

Buggies can be a real pain on busy trains, fair enough certain designs cannot easilly be folded, but the basic common ones can be folded in seconds. I think the problem is now, that thanks to easy access buses people are no longer required to fold them up to get on the bus so the 'why should we' do it on the train excuse comes into play.

Its annoying as sometimes its impossible to get down the train because there are 4-5 pushchairs dumped in the vestibile, blocking the doorway or, the single pushchair in the aisle so 'the baby can see me'. Total inconsideration and often poor family education

 

[Blindtraveler]

as said before, buggys rule the world and the majoritty of there owners dont care about anybody but them! If a buggy wishes to travel unfolded on public vehicles, charge the owner! Wave your tiket machine at them and in seconds they wil be asking for help to fold it!

Not intending to offend.

On standing öly services, its maybe too saffe and this may, I dont know mean theres no motivation for anything to be done about it. I may be wrong though.

 

[GodAtum]

How come buggys dont obey the same rules as cycles?

Also, would setting passenger priority help? E.g: if you have longer to travel you get a seat over someone who has less.

 

[Anon Mouse]

How come buggys dont obey the same rules as cycles?

Also, would setting passenger priority help? E.g: if you have longer to travel you get a seat over someone who has less.

and dont get me started on Cycles!

Cycles are another issuie on full and standing trains as the Cyclist often wont ask passengers sitting in the flip down seats in the bike space to vacate the area prefering to stand with the bike in the doorway or the aisle causing an obstruction

 

[Lampshade]

Anyone unfortunate enough to try and board a Bolton direction train at Salford Crescent in the evening rush hour knows all about "standing on trains" to their cost.

Forget Salford Crescent, it's like that at Oxford Road hock:

The 1846 from Piccadilly to Blackpool is the very definition of the chaos theory.

 

[stut]

Cycles are another issuie on full and standing trains as the Cyclist often wont ask passengers sitting in the flip down seats in the bike space to vacate the area prefering to stand with the bike in the doorway or the aisle causing an obstruction

Because half the time you get an earful, and no back up from the train crew (if there is any). On trains where cycle storage is in the vestibule, you get an earful if you ask someone to swap sides so you can move and not block the doors at the nex tstop.

Plus, you can never be quite sure where the cycle storage is going to be - and if it's on a longer train, you don't have time to walk up and down looking for it after the train arrives!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Forget Salford Crescent, it's like that at Oxford Road hock:
The 1846 from Piccadilly to Blackpool is the very definition of the chaos theory.

Yes, but the Oxford Road passengers have already got on, BEFORE it arrives at Salford Crescent, on its way to Bolton.

Then it becomes THE BLACK HOLE OF CALCUTTA. :cry::cry:

 

[MadCommuter]

Ive always wondered what the difference between 'crowded' and 'overcrowded' is. I suspect the latter is a media term.

 

[Drsatan]

Ive always wondered what the difference between 'crowded' and 'overcrowded' is. I suspect the latter is a media term.

The distinction is somewhat blurred because someone's definition of a 'crowded' train (which usually means a few people standing), is someone else's 'overcrowded' train.

I believe a train is overcrowded when there are more than 30 or 40 people standing. Although it's usually any peak trains arriving or leaving London Termini that are usually overcrowded, you'd be surprised at how many trains serving provincial cities are overcrowded - I believe that for several years Britain's most overcrowded train was the 0727 service (run by Northern Spirit and then TPE) from Darlington to Newcastle (or York).

 

[142094]

That was true until last year IIRC - something else became the most overcrowded service. I've been on that one from Middlesbrough before and it is full and standing from Darlo, not a hope in hell's chance of getting on at Durham or Chester-le-Street.

 

[me123]

I was at Clapham Junction waiting for the 18.27 to Exeter (I was going to Basingstoke). Couple of minutes before it was due it was announced as full and standing. The station announcer went on to ask passengers travelling to Woking to wait for the Alton train a few minutes behind,so that passengers travelling to Basingstoke and onwards would be able to board. I got on okay and got into the aisle. Behind me a couple with three kids,two of which were in pushchairs,got on,they then stood in the vestibule with the pushchairs completely blocking the door,preventing anyone else from getting on at that door and arguing that they couldn't move anywhere. You've guessed it,they got off at Woking. Stupid barstewards should have been told to take the kids out and fold the pushchairs up so others could actually get on the train.

Perhaps a solution would have been to announce that the train was in fact no longer calling at Woking. Then they'd have no excuse for being on the train. Of course, you could still make a stop to pick up passengers (if they could squeeze in!), but it should stop people chancing their arm.

At the end of the day, the rush hour mentality is such that most people will ignore a request not to board the next train to their destination. The announcement made would have been interpreted along the lines of "if you're going to Woking, please don't get on the next train so that people going further than you can get home". Sadly, we live in a world where people are only interested in one person. And this is true all over the country.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Although it's usually any peak trains arriving or leaving London Termini that are usually overcrowded, you'd be surprised at how many trains serving provincial cities are overcrowded - I believe that for several years Britain's most overcrowded train was the 0727 service (run by Northern Spirit and then TPE) from Darlington to Newcastle (or York).

Well, it is nice to see that it is realised by the commuters in the South that up here IN THE NORTH, we actually do have very overcrowded trains, as those in the South.

The difference is that the South has never had to suffer crowded Class 142 Pacer Uniits......or any Class 142 Pacer units at all

I never miss a chance of having a go at my favourite "enemy" that still has not convinced me of the fact that these units were planned as a ride on Blackpool Pleasure Beach....and escaped when no-one was looking

 

[Chapeltom]

Anyone unfortunate enough to try and board a Bolton direction train at Salford Crescent in the evening rush hour knows all about "standing on trains" to their cost.

That should apply to any train going not in the Manchester direction! I had to change at Salford Crescent a few times in April, at least when your standing near the door you can get off, a lot of trains I struggle to without having to walk through people

All Northern Rail Manchester bound trains on a Saturday morning from 9 onwards get completely packed as well.