Furness Line post franchise change

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thenorthern

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Now that the Furness Line is solely operated by Northern has there been any changes to the services and rolling stock along the line or are there any planned for the short term.

I did read in the North West Evening Mail recently that there was going to be a reduction in trains on the line from Manchester but I am not sure how true this is.

In the days of First North Western the early days of TransPennie Express some of the Class 175s from Manchester were extended to Millom but not further because of height restrictions along the Cumbrian Coast Line.
 
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PHILIPE

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Now that the Furness Line is solely operated by Northern has there been any changes to the services and rolling stock along the line or are there any planned for the short term.

I did read in the North West Evening Mail recently that there was going to be a reduction in trains on the line from Manchester but I am not sure how true this is.

In the days of First North Western the early days of TransPennie Express some of the Class 175s from Manchester were extended to Millom but not further because of height restrictions along the Cumbrian Coast Line.

All services to be operated by Northern, which could be found on RTT.
There will be some 185 s working for ATN and the probable Diagrams can be found here together with some 156 Diagrams:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128479
 

fulmar

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No changes until the timetable change in May.

Use the detailed search on Realtime Trains and look at passenger arrivals/departures for Barrow for any random day after the timetable change. Clicking on individual train reporting numbers will show whether they are timed for 100mph (class 185) or 75mph (Sprinter). It would appear that there will only be two direct Manchester services from Barrow at 0523 (Sprinter) and 0648 (class 185). Other services will be a mix of 185 or Sprinter and will terminate at Lancaster or Preston.
 
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PHILIPE

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No changes until the timetable change in May.

Use the detailed search on Realtime Trains and look at passenger arrivals/departures for Barrow for any random day after the timetable change. Clicking on individual train reporting numbers will show whether they are timed for 100mph (class 185) or 75mph (Sprinter). It would appear that there will only be two direct Manchester services from Barrow at 0523 (Sprinter) and 0648 (class 185). Other services will be a mix of 185 or Sprinter and will terminate at Lancaster or Preston.

The above quoted thread shows you diagrams. I wouldn't rely on what they are timed for on RTT.
 

thenorthern

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Many of the Manchester trains are advertised to Preston but run all the way through.

Given that the withdrawal of the Pacers will mean less trains that are allowed to run the Cumbrian Coast Line and that the only sprinters that are allowed (Class 150, 153 and 156) are getting towards the end of their lives does anyone know if the new CAF trains will be Cumbrian Coast loading gauge compatible?
 

PHILIPE

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Many of the Manchester trains are advertised to Preston but run all the way through.

Given that the withdrawal of the Pacers will mean less trains that are allowed to run the Cumbrian Coast Line and that the only sprinters that are allowed (Class 150, 153 and 156) are getting towards the end of their lives does anyone know if the new CAF trains will be Cumbrian Coast loading gauge compatible?

They combine or split at Preston. By the way, Class 150s do not work the Cumbrian Coast line and are, in fact, barred from certain parts.
 

fulmar

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Many of the Manchester trains are advertised to Preston but run all the way through

Are you referring to the present situation or after the May timetable change?

National Rail Enquiries journey planner shows all journeys between Barrow and Manchester after the timetable change as requiring at least one change of train, with the exception of the 0523 and 0648 departures from Barrow.

Is the journey planner not yet up to date?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The above quoted thread shows you diagrams. I wouldn't rely on what they are timed for on RTT.

The diagrams on the thread quoted appear to have been compiled based on information from Realtime Trains plus some guesswork. If they were compiled from a more official source of information, could you tell me where please?
 

edwin_m

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Many of the Manchester trains are advertised to Preston but run all the way through.

Given that the withdrawal of the Pacers will mean less trains that are allowed to run the Cumbrian Coast Line and that the only sprinters that are allowed (Class 150, 153 and 156) are getting towards the end of their lives does anyone know if the new CAF trains will be Cumbrian Coast loading gauge compatible?

They combine or split at Preston. By the way, Class 150s do not work the Cumbrian Coast line and are, in fact, barred from certain parts.

That's an interesting question. I would guess the CAF units are of similar dimensions to 156s but I don't think we've seen any technical data.
 

Mark62

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day
 

thenorthern

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day

I think its because DRS is owned by the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority who also own Sellafield which is along the Cumbrian Coast Line.
 

yorksrob

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day

Caught by the old Carlisle - Newcastle 142 problem eh ?

The route definitely needs better stock. That said, I've seen the loco hauled ones on the Cumbrian coast get pretty busy, so it's not just a case of swapping over from an underused line.
 

SeanG

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day

The majority of Tyne Valley diagrams are interworked with those in the northeast so there would need to be a large diagram recast
 

berneyarms

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day

Have you not seen the numbers of people commuting to/from Sellafield?

If you had you'd understand why the trains are on that line.
 

edwin_m

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The majority of Tyne Valley diagrams are interworked with those in the northeast so there would need to be a large diagram recast

Middlesbrough-Newcastle-Carlisle will become a Northern Connect service, although worked by refurbished 158s not the new CAF units, so that recast will have to happen sometime in the next few years.
 

cuccir

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It was reported a few weeks ago that there will be a 'temporary' reduction in services between Barrow and Manchester, although these are for at least 2 years, before an expected increase on existing levels in 2018, rising to 8 a day by 2019.

The Loco-hauled services were introduced to overcome a specific overcrowding problem on services with Sellafield commuters, I believe.
 

PHILIPE

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The loco hauled services to Carlise etc need to be reallocated to needier and more receptive lines such as Carlise to newcastle or Settle to Carlise. For the life of me I can't see why they are running four coach trains on the Barrow to Carlise service. They have gone from running two coach sprinters to fours coach trains.
Yesterday I travelled on the 14.10 Newcastle to Carlise. It was a pacer. There wasn't any luggage space and the racks were wholly inadequate. Consequently large cases and rucksacks went on the seats or in the aisle. Using a pacer on this route is a disgrace. For much of the day's these trains load heavily. Surely there is case for running the four coach loco hauled trains between Newcastle and Carlise. Also there is ample capacity for the loco to run around the coaches as Both stations aren't exactly busy these days.
I am absolutely not suggesting running pacers between Carlise and Barrow. A simple reallocation from the Morpeth Metro centre runs would release 156 units that run empty all day

Use of LHCS is frequently brought up on the Forum and has been discussed at length. Rejected by powers to be for operational reasons. As has been said, Sellafield is a great influence and the route is handy for the 37s base at Carlisle. Leeds is too remote. They don't run round on the Cumbrian Coast but have a DBSO (Driving trailer). The Newcastle to Carlisle line also intermixes with through Scotrail services.
 

cuccir

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Anecdotally (from a friend who is a Northern guard in the area) reliability of the LCHS is relatively poor - while they increase capacity, they do not necessarily improve the service very much.
 

edwin_m

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The Loco-hauled services were introduced to overcome a specific overcrowding problem on services with Sellafield commuters, I believe.

Surely the main reason was to start a mini-cascade allowing Northern to lend some 156s to Transpennine, compensating for the loss of their 170s? Demand from Sellafield might have been one factor in putting the LHCS on that route rather than elsewhere.
 

BigCj34

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Looks like there's going to be 4 trains going to Barrow from Manchester following the timetable changes in May, with only the last train going from the airport and in a class 185 (as this is the only train with a first class offering).
 
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