Future Metrolink Expansion

[Boysteve]

So today I noticed from the window of an Eccles tram that vegetation clearance has started from Pomona leading towards to Trafford Road bridge. I guess this is that start of the enabling works before full construction can begin of the new Trafford Line.

 

[snowball]

Enabling works have been going on for some time. "Johnny de Rivative" has just posted this collection of pictures on Skyscrapercity:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=135068892&postcount=44662

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Nothing can be done, and no date can be announced, without a TWA Order.

These things take time; in its effects, and Order amounts to a Parliamentary Statute; so all possible legal implications have to be thoroughly explored.

There does appear that some works are in progress prior to the TWA order being given the formal approval.

 

[snowball]

There are some things they can do. If for example they've bought up a building on the route, by agreement with the owner, and it isn't listed or in a conservation area, then they have the right to demolish it.

 

[WatcherZero]

Government transport statement today, approved £2.1m for business case development of extension of Airport line to Terminal 2.

Also gave approval for North West Quadrant to be done in Ris 2, this includes some Metrolink extensions. The stage 3 report published today narrowed down three transport intervention packages with further work to optimise a single programme still to be done.

 

[miami]

Handy for Airport City too -- saves a few hundred yards walk. Presumably planning on eventually extending to the HS2 station?

 

[Altfish]

Government transport statement today, approved £2.1m for business case development of extension of Airport line to Terminal 2.

Is there any drawings showing where the station will be. I'd have said that the current tram stop/station is nearer T2 than T1 (or about the same)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there any drawings showing where the station will be. I'd have said that the current tram stop/station is nearer T2 than T1 (or about the same)

What are the infrastructural works requirements inherent in this new extension to Terminal 2?

 

[Altfish]

What are the infrastructural works requirements inherent in this new extension to Terminal 2?

Well, it's got to be a tunnel!!

 

[nerd]

What are the infrastructural works requirements inherent in this new extension to Terminal 2?

A tunnel already exists westwards out from the Metrolink platforms - under the station concourse and the roundabout. The published plans for the major T2 rebuild do not show the Metrolink extension, and it would appear that they envisage the Western Metrolink as continuing to use the safeguarded alignment running from the station under World Way and north of the T2 carpark alongside Palma Avenue. In the planning documents, the airport assure the City Council that they are in discussion with TfGM and that the terminal newbuild does not impinge on the safeguarded alignment.

The applicant has confirmed that they have been
working closely with TfGM on the potential western extension of Metrolink and that
this will continue beyond and outside the planning application process. They have
pointed out that there is nothing in the submitted application that prejudices the
preferred alignment for Metrolink as shown in the approved Parliamentary powers
and agree that there needs to be close collaboration in terms of construction
methodology and timing in relation to the crossing of World Way.

 

[Altfish]

It would also make imminent sense if it was lined up to connect to the HS2 station

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A tunnel already exists westwards out from the Metrolink platforms - under the station concourse and the roundabout. The published plans for the major T2 rebuild do not show the Metrolink extension, and it would appear that they envisage the Western Metrolink as continuing to use the safeguarded alignment running from the station under World Way and north of the T2 carpark alongside Palma Avenue. In the planning documents, the airport assure the City Council that they are in discussion with TfGM and that the terminal newbuild does not impinge on the safeguarded alignment.

Thank you for this information. May I now ask if there is a projected time period scheduled when the said works are due to start and also will these works not take place until the construction on the Metrolink Trafford Park line is completed. Where has the finance been found in order that such works can take place?

 

[edwin_m]

According to #215 funding is only approved for business case development. So funding will only be sought if the business case is attractive enough, and timescale will depend on how quickly that funding is put together (among other things).

 

[nerd]

Thank you for this information. May I now ask if there is a projected time period scheduled when the said works are due to start and also will these works not take place until the construction on the Metrolink Trafford Park line is completed. Where has the finance been found in order that such works can take place?

The current funding is to work up a business case for extending the Metrolink line through the existing westwards tunnel, and along to terminate at a stop serving both the expanded T2 and Airport City.

The context for this is the expectation that, once HS2 Phase 2 is approved, a second business case will be developed for the completion of the Western Loop; going across the Thorley Lane bridge, stopping at the Davenport Green HS2 station and the office development area, and then on to Wythenshawe Hospital and so back to the main airport line towards Victoria.

The latest HS2 documents for Phase 2 make no specific mention of Metrolink (or indeed trams or people-movers of any sort), but this likely reflects HS2's care against getting drawn into scheme funding for the Airport station. The Airport station, and all associated works are not within the HS2 budget, and may be expected to be paid for by a combination of MAG, TfGM and RLAM (who own the Davenport Green site).

As to the funding of the initial phase; my expectation is that GMCA will seek to establish a case for using Earnback finance - that is the same basis as the Trafford Park line. The City Deal allows GMCA to borrow capital funds (up to an agreed limit) for repayment out of increased business rate receipts, but they will need to submit a sustainable business case to the Treasury for this to go forwards.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As to the funding of the initial phase; my expectation is that GMCA will seek to establish a case for using Earnback finance - that is the same basis as the Trafford Park line. The City Deal allows GMCA to borrow capital funds (up to an agreed limit) for repayment out of increased business rate receipts, but they will need to submit a sustainable business case to the Treasury for this to go forwards.

Wearing my "political pessimist" hat, do you envisage any Government post-Brexit about-turn on the "Earnback" finance initiative?

 

[nerd]

Wearing my "political pessimist" hat, do you envisage any Government post-Brexit about-turn on the "Earnback" finance initiative?

Tricky; as we have been seeing, it is very difficult politically for the government to argue that Brexit will do anything other than benefit the local economies of the north; to admit the contrary would require a serious diet of humble pie. Not to mention mightily disappointing exactly the category of no-EU investors whom the government are desperate to keep sweet.

Politicians love the idea of Earnback; as it seems to offer a business-friendly funding model with no opportunity costs; the increases in tax revenue in the developments along the tram line pay back its construction costs. It has always been the Treasury that have taken a jaundiced view (except in London); arguing that, if developments simply move into the designated zones (in Trafford Park and Airport City) from elsewhere in the city region, there may have been no overall increase in tax.

Hence GMCA were initially pulled into complicated discussions with the Treasury for an overall funding formula to demonstrate that the Earnback monies were genuinely incremental; involving modelling of growth in Gross Value Added across the city region. In the end both sides gave up on the task; the problem being that any model that linked access to funds to GVA growth 'above trend' had the capability of writing a blank cheque to GMCA from the Treasury. So they simply agreed a ceiling on GMCA access to Earnback funds for the first 10 years or so; with a commitment to reviewing GVA growth retrospectively.

So the problem would come if there were a general post-Brexit slump in economic activity specific to the Manchester city region'; if total tax revenues are falling, the Treasury will not be so keen to accept the argument that the designated Earnback zones are bucking the trend. But at the moment, there is no indication that this may be happening. Crossing fingers and toes.

 

[Simon11]

On a separate note, the new winner operator for Metrolink should be announced next Monday!

 

[pemma]

A Metrolink driver was sacked after taking a corner at nearly three times the speed limit - causing passengers to be hurled from their seats.

It’s understood the driver took the 10mph bend near the Freehold stop on the Oldham line at 28mph.

The tram swayed to such a degree that three passengers suffered minor injuries. It only came to light only after a passenger complained. The driver did not report it himself and was later sacked for gross misconduct.

TfGM has confirmed a speeding incident took place and a driver was dismissed as a result.

Although it’s thought to have happened in June, neither TfGM or the network operator RATP Dev UK Ltd, which said they did not comment on individual incidents, would confirm a date.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/201...ter-cornering-at-three-times-the-speed-limit/

I would hope drivers understand the risks of speeding more now following the Croydon incident.

 

[edwin_m]

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/201...ter-cornering-at-three-times-the-speed-limit/

I would hope drivers understand the risks of speeding more now following the Croydon incident.

The fact it didn't overturn, however scary, shows there is actually a good margin of safety on these tight curves.

 

[Greybeard33]

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/201...ter-cornering-at-three-times-the-speed-limit/

I would hope drivers understand the risks of speeding more now following the Croydon incident.

Hmm. Perhaps if, rather than just punishing the driver, TfGM/RATP had called in the RAIB, the investigation might have highlighted the underlying safety issues regarding tight curves on segregated light rail lines? Which might have resulted in the RAIB identifying some learning points (e.g. signage, speed restrictions, driver training) applicable to other systems? And so might conceivably have forestalled the Croydon tragedy?

The Freehold curve, where the Metrolink line leaves the old heavy rail Oldham Loop alignment, has similarities to the Sandilands Junction curve, and the Metrolink M5000 vehicles are similar to the Croydon CR5000 involved in the accident.

 

[rebmcr]

The Freehold curve, where the Metrolink line leaves the old heavy rail Oldham Loop alignment, has similarities to the Sandilands Junction curve, and the Metrolink M5000 vehicles are similar to the Croydon CR5000 involved in the accident.

Earlier in the thread it has been detailed that the Metrolink curve had already seen mitigating features added. The dismissal will have been far more to do with the non-report behaviour of the driver.

 

[Greybeard33]

Earlier in the thread it has been detailed that the Metrolink curve had already seen mitigating features added. The dismissal will have been far more to do with the non-report behaviour of the driver.

Nevertheless, the "mitigating features" were apparently not very effective in this incident. The Metrolink tram was reportedly travelling at 2.8 times linespeed. The Croydon tram overturned at 3.5 times linespeed. This incident might be thought to come under the RAIB Guidance that requires immediate reporting of:

An accident or incident which under slightly different conditions might have led to a death, serious injury or extensive damage to rolling stock, the infrastructure or the environment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456936/guidance_to_rair_regs_v4.pdf.

Although MRDL will be able to argue that the specific examples of such incidents given in the document do not include linespeed exceedences (I suspect that may now change in the next issue).

It seems that MRDL did not even notify TfGM of the incident at the time:

Peter Cushing, Transport for Greater Manchester’s Metrolink Director, said: “Metrolink is one of the safest tram networks in Europe – this was an isolated incident which took place in June 2016.

“MRDL, who are responsible for the safe operation of the network, take incidents of this kind extremely seriously and investigate them thoroughly.

“This was an isolated staff-behaviour incident, not considered formally ‘reportable’,which was dealt with by MRDL at the time. On this basis, the matter was not escalated to TfGM.

“We are satisfied that the appropriate corrective action was taken by the operator in this instance. We will continue to apply a stringent approach to monitoring and challenging the operator’s performance, which has contributed to Metrolink’s exemplary safety record.”

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/speeding-tram-driver-sacked-after-12272109

The blame culture approach to accidents/incidents involving human error does nothing to encourage staff to report near misses. Nor does it look for root causes of/contributory factors to the error, in order to develop safety measures/systems that might mitigate a future recurrence.

 

[rebmcr]

Nevertheless, the "mitigating features" were apparently not very effective in this incident.

We don't know whether the features were added before, or after the Metrolink incident. Can anyone in the know shed some light on that?

 

[edwin_m]

We don't know whether the features were added before, or after the Metrolink incident. Can anyone in the know shed some light on that?

A sign with black and white chevrons was certainly planned, and I presume installed, at the time of the diversion of the Metrolink route from the Werneth tunnels into the town centre. I believe Metrolink practice for big reductions in permitted speed has always been to provide a sign for an intermediate speed, positioned according to the braking curve of the tram if it is correctly slowing down for the low speed. This is unlike how it was in Croydon where the driver had to see or remember the big speed reduction when some distance away.

 

[507 001]

A sign with black and white chevrons was certainly planned, and I presume installed, at the time of the diversion of the Metrolink route from the Werneth tunnels into the town centre. I believe Metrolink practice for big reductions in permitted speed has always been to provide a sign for an intermediate speed, positioned according to the braking curve of the tram if it is correctly slowing down for the low speed. This is unlike how it was in Croydon where the driver had to see or remember the big speed reduction when some distance away.

(Metrolink Driver here)

The Chevron boards were indeed installed when the diversion took place.

This particular curve does not have 'step down' speed limits as the previous line speed on the outbound is only 30mph and on the inbound 15mph.

On a separate note, the new winner operator for Metrolink should be announced next Monday!

Says who? We've not heard anything yet!

 

[WatcherZero]

Was supposed to be announced last month, think they've taken longer than expected to resolve the contractual fine details.

 

[Nym]

(Metrolink Driver here)

The Chevron boards were indeed installed when the diversion took place.

This particular curve does not have 'step down' speed limits as the previous line speed on the outbound is only 30mph and on the inbound 15mph.




Says who? We've not heard anything yet!

Big picture question...

Is there any kind of automatic speed control (protection) and as an operator, would you welcome such equipment?

 

[507 001]

Big picture question...

Is there any kind of automatic speed control (protection) and as an operator, would you welcome such equipment?

No and Yes. Personally, I don't think line of sight works particularly well.

 

[Chester1]

Has the line from Piccadilly to Guide Bridge and Hyde North been considered for Metrolink conversion? There is space for 4 tracks all the way and removing the stations in between and building replacement Metro stops would speed up Glossop and Rose Hill services and free up capacity. Extending the 2 Metrolink services that terminate at Piccadilly are one of the few ways to expand Metrolink without needing more capacity in the city centre. TfGM seems to like empire building and there is plenty of land available for development. Has any extension south east from Piccadilly been considered?

Not saying this idea is viable btw! Just curious as to what has been considered!

 

[Altfish]

Has the line from Piccadilly to Guide Bridge and Hyde North been considered for Metrolink conversion? There is space for 4 tracks all the way and removing the stations in between and building replacement Metro stops would speed up Glossop and Rose Hill services and free up capacity. Extending the 2 Metrolink services that terminate at Piccadilly are one of the few ways to expand Metrolink without needing more capacity in the city centre. TfGM seems to like empire building and there is plenty of land available for development. Has any extension south east from Piccadilly been considered?

Not saying this idea is viable btw! Just curious as to what has been considered!

Yes, Glossop & Hadfield is being considered as a possible tram-train opportunity