Agree, if 350s ever rocked up on New St to Picc services you couldnt leave them as they are. That section of route is huge in revenue and would need a inferior refit with a proper first class area.
Not convinced 350s compared to 323s wouldnt cause you timetable problems. 323s are pretty nippy and their dwell times smash those of a 350.
They are nothing like as clapped out but yes they do seem to be a solution looking for a problem....
Not really, due to modern technology. The obvious solution is fit them (and other stored EMUs) with batteries to replace DMUs that run majority under wires. Whether the ROSCOs realize the obvious, however, is yet to be seen.
Why is it different from the Liverpool Lime Street to Birmingham New Street service for which class 350 trains are considered adequate? Within England, first class is only needed for longer distance inter-city services to/from London. Class 350s are perfectly adequate as they are for rail passengers in Northern England and the Midlands.
Are they adequate as 350/2 for that role? Is Birmingham to Manchester or Liverpool inter city or are we playing the semantics game over distance and where it is? If Birmingham to Bristol was entirely wired would that be suitable for 350/2?
Porterbrook has already stated this as a proposal.
Some time ago. They stated it nearly five years ago https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ally-for-northern.138660/page-87#post-3758690.
I'd offload the 5 car units as there would otherwise be a huge surplus of 450s, especially with the 458 conversion to "intercity" services. SWR already have too much outer suburban stock with just the 450s, let alone any more. With just the 10 car 701s, you would be achieving good fleet utilisation, but having to put trains with less than stellar door cycle times on routes with a lot of door cycles. The only place where the 350s have a chance is if most of them lost a coach and went to Scotland. I know the Scottish Government wants new trains with level boarding etc but Porterbrook is not Akiem and won't be content with their trains gathering dust so they are likely to offer an extremely low price for relatively modern trains, especially as it does not require a particularly complex conversion and there is a lot of commonality with the 380s.
How do you know that they will offer an extremely low price? There is the precedent of the 458 for 442 swap in 2007 but that is over 15 years ago.
Maybe not the only chance if the battery flex concept can be sorted out.
Spot on!
As you said earlier, it takes time to progress ideas. Yes, Porterbrook had ideas about adding batteries to the 350/2's five years ago, but the batteries that could be added then would not have taken the trains very far on any none electrified route. Battery technology has moved on from that point in the last five years. Recharging of said batteries has also come along way in the last 5 years. It is now a case, as to whether that technology can be used in a four coach EMU unit.
Well no. Without an announcement there is no knowledge and any discussion is just speculation. As a Porterbrook fleet, storage at Long Marston would be the default option.
Could they be modified to something like a cl769 for the North Downs Line?
They would be awful as people would just avoid sitting in the middle seats as they do now. They are commuter stock, not long distance.
I suspect the previous poster is assuming an interior refit if they were to be used to link Birmingham and Manchester. Porterbrook are going to have to spend some money on the units to get them back into use in any case, for example on external DOO cameras, or the aforementioned arrangements for some element of self power.
LNW are the only 350 operator and they’re getting rid of them in the first place so unlikely.
Doesn't stop LNR running them on Crewe-Euston turns - is the stopping pattern on these any different to XC on the Manchester to Birmingham?
Or could do a stock swap, keep the 350/2s in the Midlands and send 350/1's down south.
Given either option would involve breaking contracts, neither is likely.
There is no operator with overhead wiring who has a use for them, as many of those operators have just taken on new trains, and the rest aren't at the point where they need to replace their fleet.
Never never say never. There will be a time where a rail operator will take a chance on the 350/2s. The reason why? To save money.
