Future of the Class 60 locos at Toton?

[BR60062]

Surprise surprise, you didn't get a reply.

Sarcastic remarks and people DO get ignored by me and I can see this list that will grow before long if some people don't mind their manners! . How would you like it if someone wants to always pick a fight and do their upmost to provoke one over an idea?! See you are at it again. If you are not willing to be civil, then just go away please as I don't have the time for this nonsense :roll:.

There is ways to post facts and give advice. But in honesty here. I CAN handle the truth and I am fully aware that this project isn't going to be easy. However I DO NOT like the tone that some of you are using because it shows hostility and some remarks are quite condescending and there really is no need for it. Lose the attitude and I will listen. If not then forget it! You don't need to be caustic or rude in order to post facts .

Anyway what is wrong with wanting to put a Class 60 in the garden (where there is space for one) as a display piece anyway and then work on it in my own time to make it a nice looking showpiece rather than a wreck that is rotting away at Toton? Also yes I could get a Class 60 cab perhaps from Booths once they start cutting up the bad ones. But they haven't taken any yet. So I cannot yet enquire at Booths until they get some. So thanks for the suggestion .

In reality here. Its somewhat unlikely that my Class 60 would be fit enough to do mainline, railtours and the like. But if I get enough funds together and its viable. I will go the full works. But if not, then one in the garden is good enough for me and it will be covered with a tarp in bad weather . Besides that, the 1959 Tube Stock seems to be doing alright that is privately owned by a collector I am assuming here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just out of interest how do you rate your chances of getting hold of £450k?

All in all. 50/50 but 3-5 years, anything can happen. But I think option 2 for me is more realistic . As there is nothing wrong with having a locomotive in the garden where there is space and also I can make it into a nice display piece of British Rail history.

 

[Cowley]

Do you think you'll go for a shrubbery or rockery arrangement?

 

[richieb1971]

Sarcastic remarks and people DO get ignored by me and I can see this list that will grow before long if some people don't mind their manners! . How would you like it if someone wants to always pick a fight and do their upmost to provoke one over an idea?! See you are at it again. If you are not willing to be civil, then just go away please as I don't have the time for this nonsense :roll:.

There is ways to post facts and give advice. But in honesty here. I CAN handle the truth and I am fully aware that this project isn't going to be easy. However I DO NOT like the tone that some of you are using because it shows hostility and some remarks are quite condescending and there really is no need for it. Lose the attitude and I will listen. If not then forget it! You don't need to be caustic or rude in order to post facts .

Anyway what is wrong with wanting to put a Class 60 in the garden (where there is space for one) as a display piece anyway and then work on it in my own time to make it a nice looking showpiece rather than a wreck that is rotting away at Toton? Also yes I could get a Class 60 cab perhaps from Booths once they start cutting up the bad ones. But they haven't taken any yet. So I cannot yet enquire at Booths until they get some. So thanks for the suggestion .

In reality here. Its somewhat unlikely that my Class 60 would be fit enough to do mainline, railtours and the like. But if I get enough funds together and its viable. I will go the full works. But if not, then one in the garden is good enough for me and it will be covered with a tarp in bad weather . Besides that, the 1959 Tube Stock seems to be doing alright that is privately owned by a collector I am assuming here.

I wish you well. Take it as far as you can, but take serious advice from DBS if you get a reply, ask them about options.

If getting a class 60 is your dream then nobody here has the right to tell you otherwise. But if the big boys at DBS usher you away, I think at that point you should listen. If you get a static display in your garden I'd enjoy a cup of tea sometime in front of the class 60.

 

[BR60062]

Do you think you'll go for a shrubbery or rockery arrangement?

I will just place it on a section of track in the garden that would act as a plinth. I will make a custom retractable staircase mounted on wheels if I need to access the cab or engine room and I will make a nice rockery around the trackbed with flowers and stuff to make a monument showpiece .

I wish you well. Take it as far as you can, but take serious advice from DBS if you get a reply, ask them about options.

If getting a class 60 is your dream then nobody here has the right to tell you otherwise. But if the big boys at DBS usher you away, I think at that point you should listen. If you get a static display in your garden I'd enjoy a cup of tea sometime in front of the class 60.

Thanks buddy and I definitely will do. As I will respect their decision and I will certainly discuss my options with them as only DBC will know if they want to sell on any more Class 60's in the future or not. If all goes to plan and provided that DBC should list any more Class 60's in the future and I can secure one for my display. You can even enjoy your cuppa in the drivers seat of the Class 60 if you wanted to buddy . Although I will make it look nice before I invite you over as I like things to look pleasant for guests .

 

[DarloRich]

Sarcastic remarks and people DO get ignored by me and I can see this list that will grow before long if some people don't mind their manners! . How would you like it if someone wants to always pick a fight and do their upmost to provoke one over an idea?! See you are at it again. If you are not willing to be civil, then just go away please as I don't have the time for this nonsense :roll:.

No one has been anything other than civil to you. :roll: You just don't like hearing realism. Apologies if the suggestions you are given are not suitability obsequious for your needs.

There is ways to post facts and give advice. But in honesty here. I CAN handle the truth and I am fully aware that this project isn't going to be easy. However I DO NOT like the tone that some of you are using because it shows hostility and some remarks are quite condescending and there really is no need for it. Lose the attitude and I will listen. If not then forget it! You don't need to be caustic or rude in order to post facts .

Would you prefer everyone to say what a genius you are and how fantastic your ideas are? Is that what you want to hear? I am sorry if the TONE of comments isn't what you LIKE but this is nothing to what will happen to you in the real world. The rules here prevent me form being as blunt as i am in real life. I did assume you must be some 15 year old kid which might explain your overly positive position but I think not now.

it seems, frankly, that you are the one with the attitude :roll: You have ABSOLUTELY no idea how hard putting your idea into practice is going to be. . I doubt you even have an idea how to write to DBS and express an interest. What are you going to do when they ask to see your bona fides? They may well want to see evidence of cash in the bank and an ability to proceed before they even correspond with you. But I am sure you have thought of that.

Anyway what is wrong with wanting to put a Class 60 in the garden (where there is space for one) as a display piece anyway and then work on it in my own time to make it a nice looking showpiece rather than a wreck that is rotting away at Toton? Also yes I could get a Class 60 cab perhaps from Booths once they start cutting up the bad ones. But they haven't taken any yet. So I cannot yet enquire at Booths until they get some. So thanks for the suggestion .

Nothing at all. No one is saying you shouldn't try and follow your dreams and all that It just seems that you underestimate exactly how hard this is going to be or how hard it would be to even raise the deposit. How many mugs and stickers do you need to sell to raise the money.

I have been involved with fundraising for local charitable groups & the local church roof fund and getting money out of people is like getting blood out of a stone. Where is yours going to come form? Getting £400 off a summer fayre is a fantastic day. You need a lot of fantastic days to raise real money.

In reality here. Its somewhat unlikely that my Class 60 would be fit enough to do mainline, railtours and the like. But if I get enough funds together and its viable. I will go the full works. But if not, then one in the garden is good enough for me and it will be covered with a tarp in bad weather . Besides that, the 1959 Tube Stock seems to be doing alright that is privately owned by a collector I am assuming here.

In reality here Idont think any of these plans will come to fruition without bankrupting you and/or giving you a nervous breakdown. You shouldn't listen to anyone if this is your dream but please try to asses and grade the risk you are opening yourself up to and only proceed when you are certain you have mitigated them as far as you can. And for gods sake pay for a decent lawyer to represent you and check the contracts. Again I am sure you have factored legal costs into your plan.

All in all. 50/50 but 3-5 years, anything can happen. But I think option 2 for me is more realistic . As there is nothing wrong with having a locomotive in the garden where there is space and also I can make it into a nice display piece of British Rail history.

If you think you can raise that kind of money in 3-5 years don't waste your skills on a train. Do something useful and raise the money for cancer relief

As an example the church roof fund i am involved with has taken over a year to raise about 30k. That is all from the kind of fundraising I think you have in mind. You need corporate sponsorship for the big sums.

PS check the planning permission rules ahead of your plan. You wouldn't want an enforcement notice. But again i bet you have this covered.

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't think that I would be allowed to use another EWS livery due to copyright reasons that includes preservation if I am correct on this? .

At least two class 31s and a 37 have already received coats of EWS livery in preservation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just out of interest how do you rate your chances of getting hold of £450k?

If BR60062 owns or expects to have funds enough to purchase a house with sufficient land to comfortably house seventy foot of heavy haul locomotive as a feature as their second option, perhaps £450k is just loose change! hock:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you think you'll go for a shrubbery or rockery arrangement?

A rockery arrangement (on a suitably grand scale!) would complement a coat of "Trainload Construction" livery - Trainload Freight never had an Agricultural or "Shrubbery" sub-sector.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I wouldn't be surprised if planning permission were required to display a railway loco in a private garden

 

[Ash Bridge]

I wouldn't be surprised if planning permission were required to display a railway loco in a private garden

Absolutely, for something as massive as a 130 ton 21x4x3m. Lump of machinery, it's just a tad larger than your average garage or garden shed wouldn't you say?

As much as I love trains, if I lived next door I would not want to be constantly in the shade from that monster!

 

[richieb1971]

Absolutely, for something as massive as a 130 ton 21x4x3m. Lump of machinery, it's just a tad larger than your average garage or garden shed wouldn't you say?

As much as I love trains, if I lived next door I would not want to be constantly in the shade from that monster!

Well this quote has cheered me up no end.

If this happens its nice to have it documented. It may lead more people down this path. I heard a rumour once that someone had a full size steam engine in a shed purposely built on their property.

 

[Harbornite]

Sarcastic remarks and people DO get ignored by me and I can see this list that will grow before long if some people don't mind their manners! . How would you like it if someone wants to always pick a fight and do their upmost to provoke one over an idea?! See you are at it again. If you are not willing to be civil, then just go away please as I don't have the time for this nonsense :roll:.

There are ways to post facts and give advice. But in honesty here. I CAN handle the truth and I am fully aware that this project isn't going to be easy. However I DO NOT like the tone that some of you are using because it shows hostility and some remarks are quite condescending and there really is no need for it. Lose the attitude and I will listen. If not then forget it! You don't need to be caustic or rude in order to post facts .

Anyway what is wrong with wanting to put a Class 60 in the garden (where there is space for one) as a display piece anyway and then work on it in my own time to make it a nice looking showpiece rather than a wreck that is rotting away at Toton? Also yes I could get a Class 60 cab perhaps from Booths once they start cutting up the bad ones. But they haven't taken any yet. So I cannot yet enquire at Booths until they get some. So thanks for the suggestion .

In reality here. Its somewhat unlikely that my Class 60 would be fit enough to do mainline, railtours and the like. But if I get enough funds together and its viable. I will go the full works. But if not, then one in the garden is good enough for me and it will be covered with a tarp in bad weather . Besides that, the 1959 Tube Stock seems to be doing alright that is privately owned by a collector I am assuming here.

All in all. 50/50 but 3-5 years, anything can happen. But I think option 2 for me is more realistic . As there is nothing wrong with having a locomotive in the garden where there is space and also I can make it into a nice display piece of British Rail history.

You should be able to deal with blunt questions and criticism of your project. What were those home truths you mentioned earlier? How will you make 450k before the last 60 gets scrapped? Is your garden big enough to store one of these locomotives? You need a large dose of reality.


Now you say you want to write to DB expressing your interest. If you want, you could draft your letter here and we could review it.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Well this quote has cheered me up no end.

If this happens its nice to have it documented. It may lead more people down this path. I heard a rumour once that someone had a full size steam engine in a shed purposely built on their property.

I knew that Sir William McAlpine has his own private railway (Fawley Hill) at his country estate home, also didn't Pete Waterman have some item(s) of rolling stock on his land at some point?

 

[Harbornite]

I knew that Sir William McAlpine has his own private railway (Fawley Hill) at his country estate home, also didn't Pete Waterman have some item(s) of rolling stock on his land at some point?

Possibly.


There's this article that appeared a few years ago...

He has offered it for sale for £149,000 with the trains removed, but is now trying to sell it, with the engines in-situ, for half that price, £74,500.
Mr Thorley, 65, is telling viewers they can buy the house while he retains ownership of the garden, and that he will cut the grass and keep an eye out while they are on holiday.
The house stands within 60ft of the West Coast Mainline and sees hundreds of trains go past every day. It is also next to the old Midland line that still carries freight trains.
Mr Thorley said: 'This is a nice little house and you can get six cars on the drive, but people would rather live in a terrace with damp and no parking. They see what’s in the garden and then they just go. They don’t want 20 tons of metal.
'It’s a great garden for sunbathing, the neighbours are great and it’s a good price. This house is perfect for the right person. I’m sure there’s a railway enthusiast somewhere who would snap my hand off.
'Somebody out there will want it, but the challenge is to find them.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-amazed-t-buyer-knock-semi.html#ixzz4IuHbEyu6

 

[Ash Bridge]

Ah yes, forgot about this one, and it's only 3/4miles from where I reside too! Sadly not there anymore though,

Was just thinking, is it possible that BR60062 is not revealing his full title to us, and he is actually Sir or LordBR60062?

 

[Cowley]

Well I'm going to throw my hat in the optimism ring.
Being a painter and decorator I'll come and help you paint for a weekend, I won't book it in the diary just yet but if you get one you can hold me to it.
I can get trade discount too
There you go, a firm offer of help.

 

[43096]

Do you think you'll go for a shrubbery or rockery arrangement?

I reckon the Knights who say Ni have more chance of preserving a 60. With or without a shrubbery.

 

[Harbornite]

Well I'm going to throw my hat in the optimism ring.
Being a painter and decorator I'll come and help you paint for a weekend, I won't book it in the diary just yet but if you get one you can hold me to it.
I can get trade discount too
There you go, a firm offer of help.

Do you know the BS numbers for the two tones of grey applied to the 60s?

 

[Cowley]

Do you know the BS numbers for the two tones of grey applied to the 60s?

I was thinking magnolia.

I've got plenty of that

 

[Harbornite]

I was thinking magnolia.

I've got plenty of that

Oh good! Don't bother with Loadhaul or mainline!

 

[cjmillsnun]

BR60062

I think you mean well, but honestly if don't have the 450k to go ahead and get a super 60 I wouldn't bother at all.

DBS would help you, if you signed a contract stating you were not entering the heavy haulage business, intend to hire the loco out to FOC's or in any way breach on DBS contracts.

But my guess is that a super 60 program would need to be ignited again before you could piggy back onto it.

I think DBS would bring the super 60 program back if any of the other FOC's signed such contracts as well.

The "super" part of the 60 was, as far as I know a way of improving the loco's technology, nothing to do with it pulling more wagons. If I remember correctly the original 60's had many faults due to the computerized elements. These chips and circuit boards wouldn't be available today. They are the equivalent of a commodore Amiga/commodore 64 type of chipset.

Given that the Amiga was very highly advanced for its time, and the 64 wasn't. A tug is very much in the 64 league. Worse still IIRC it was a bespoke PLC that controlled it. Now it is very possible that an off the shelf PLC with enough inputs and outputs could take on that role, but for mainline railway use I think that would have to go through the relevant certification. You may be able to find what they used for the supertug programme and fit one of those (if it was an off the shelf product), but you would then have to know how it would need programming to work correctly.

 

[richieb1971]

Given that the Amiga was very highly advanced for its time, and the 64 wasn't. A tug is very much in the 64 league. Worse still IIRC it was a bespoke PLC that controlled it. Now it is very possible that an off the shelf PLC with enough inputs and outputs could take on that role, but for mainline railway use I think that would have to go through the relevant certification. You may be able to find what they used for the supertug programme and fit one of those (if it was an off the shelf product), but you would then have to know how it would need programming to work correctly.

It wouldn't be hard to pull the data off the chips and run the program on a bespoke chipset, or even emulated on current day hardware.


If I recall correctly there are some spare bogies in Toton. Apparently each super 60 loco was lowered onto the bogies of the previous unit (already refurbished) to save time. Therefore whatever the last colas 60 was, its bogies are still in the shed (refurbed or not, but at least under the roof).

 

[CosherB]

Oh good! Don't bother with Loadhaul or mainline!

Got any GWR green? I think this would look mighty fine in an english country garden.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190-dalzell/16122965314/in/photolist-qyJpSA-iLMPuq-7hwNWs-nMK2ww-rCtrC9-s9Eei1-c3NJWC-pv2s6e-qURmyS-dDeffA-fnRwG5-hQxPCd-5hpvne-bDXwib-ecWYvr-gYG2Dv-Deb5C5-sqEuBB-ek4kxq-91khD2-csXpmW-fnBfr4-vfXNY-6H6m3C-rdwFKt-81JzpW-dPVaLq-bUrciC-cp2iyj-k7wWBG-ee4hG8-ePpRWo-q8XvQf-GRZ9oF-7RZHRp-dMLNL8-uxxLeJ-eHYQrQ-JboSj3-fnBkZr-chz96f-pKZAWC-d82SQL-4NJwGD-fnBidR-dSuTEh-fhBiVR-faa2MM-6iYh16-ca9KkA

 

[richieb1971]

Got any GWR green? I think this would look mighty fine in an english country garden.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190-dalzell/16122965314/in/photolist-qyJpSA-iLMPuq-7hwNWs-nMK2ww-rCtrC9-s9Eei1-c3NJWC-pv2s6e-qURmyS-dDeffA-fnRwG5-hQxPCd-5hpvne-bDXwib-ecWYvr-gYG2Dv-Deb5C5-sqEuBB-ek4kxq-91khD2-csXpmW-fnBfr4-vfXNY-6H6m3C-rdwFKt-81JzpW-dPVaLq-bUrciC-cp2iyj-k7wWBG-ee4hG8-ePpRWo-q8XvQf-GRZ9oF-7RZHRp-dMLNL8-uxxLeJ-eHYQrQ-JboSj3-fnBkZr-chz96f-pKZAWC-d82SQL-4NJwGD-fnBidR-dSuTEh-fhBiVR-faa2MM-6iYh16-ca9KkA

What a huge quotation on this flickr stuff.

Anyway, GREEN is awesome.

 

[Harbornite]

Got any GWR green? I think this would look mighty fine in an english country garden.

The paint will be unnecessary. You can cut costs by retaining the natural shade of green offered by the algae, and the brown of the rust gives it a rustic, earthy look.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/neild...u6f-fx3LvE-egkLY3-dB3kAp-8Tezxj-aapnfe-9YzB4f


In all seriousness, it's not my favourite livery. Perhaps GWR could get this loco as a thunderbird for their sleeper services, or is that idea too realistic?

 

[richieb1971]

I saw a 56 at the NVR a few years ago in worse condition than that (028???)

I never realized the green one had algae in the windows.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How many years ago did them sidings last get a visit from a weedkiller train?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Got any GWR green? I think this would look mighty fine in an english country garden.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190-dalzell/16122965314/in/photolist-qyJpSA-iLMPuq-7hwNWs-nMK2ww-rCtrC9-s9Eei1-c3NJWC-pv2s6e-qURmyS-dDeffA-fnRwG5-hQxPCd-5hpvne-bDXwib-ecWYvr-gYG2Dv-Deb5C5-sqEuBB-ek4kxq-91khD2-csXpmW-fnBfr4-vfXNY-6H6m3C-rdwFKt-81JzpW-dPVaLq-bUrciC-cp2iyj-k7wWBG-ee4hG8-ePpRWo-q8XvQf-GRZ9oF-7RZHRp-dMLNL8-uxxLeJ-eHYQrQ-JboSj3-fnBkZr-chz96f-pKZAWC-d82SQL-4NJwGD-fnBidR-dSuTEh-fhBiVR-faa2MM-6iYh16-ca9KkA

Nice memories, I attended that Old Oak Common Open Day back in 2000.

 

[Domh245]

In all seriousness, it's not my favourite livery. Perhaps GWR could get this loco as a thunderbird for their sleeper services, or is that idea too realistic?

IIRC it blew itself up a good few years ago, so the chance of it running again is almost exactly zero.

 

[Harbornite]

IIRC it blew itself up a good few years ago, so the chance of it running again is almost exactly zero.

Yeah I know, I was joking. One of the pistons in the engine threw itself out of place and hit against the bodywork (or something like that).

 

[Domh245]

Yeah I know, I was joking. One of the pistons in the engine threw itself out of place and hit against the bodywork (or something like that).

This post from 2006(!) would seem to corroborate that. Shame that all of the photos were from fotopic and thus lost forever

 

[Harbornite]

This post from 2006(!) would seem to corroborate that. Shame that all of the photos were from fotopic and thus lost forever

That's a pity, I did a google search to see if there were any pics taken just after the incident.