Future of the Class 60 locos at Toton?

[richieb1971]

Took me 15 mins to find "Daves-Trains" new hosting site.

Strangely its the oldest picture in the Type 5 power suite.

https://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/i-6xCHCMQ

 

[Harbornite]

Took me 15 mins to find "Daves-Trains" new hosting site.

Strangely its the oldest picture in the Type 5 power suite.

https://daves-trains.smugmug.com/Trains/Type-5-Power/i-6xCHCMQ

Thanks for finding that, you can see where the bodywork has been punctured. Ouch.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

@BR60062 what about buying just the cab of a 60 and fitting computer screens in the windows and turning it into a full sized simulator? tbqf I think that's probably as close as you would ever get to running one, I can't see how running a preserved one will be viable except maybe on a preserved railway

 

[BR60062]

Absolutely, for something as massive as a 130 ton 21x4x3m. Lump of machinery, it's just a tad larger than your average garage or garden shed wouldn't you say?

As much as I love trains, if I lived next door I would not want to be constantly in the shade from that monster!

Rest assurred that I would not have the Class 60 too near to any neighbouring walls as I have took that issue into account already .

I wouldn't be surprised if planning permission were required to display a railway loco in a private garden

I would apply for all the necessary planning permission where required before buying the locomoitve.

Well I'm going to throw my hat in the optimism ring.
Being a painter and decorator I'll come and help you paint for a weekend, I won't book it in the diary just yet but if you get one you can hold me to it.
I can get trade discount too
There you go, a firm offer of help.

All duly noted and logged and I will certainly take on your offer if I am successful. I will provide lunch, snacks and unlimited drinks as I believe in give and take. If you drink tea, I would stock it in for guests as I am more of a coffee and pepsi drinker .

I was thinking magnolia.

I've got plenty of that

Well I am going to have mine in a golden brown/orange or blue with a golden dragon on the sides. The dragons would be facing towards the number one cab end. I will make some art a bit later once I fire up paint shop pro .

@BR60062 what about buying just the cab of a 60 and fitting computer screens in the windows and turning it into a full sized simulator? tbqf I think that's probably as close as you would ever get to running one, I can't see how running a preserved one will be viable except maybe on a preserved railway

I like that idea and I have thought about this already as I could mount the Class 60 cab onto a trailer with a generator and stuff and rig up the controls to a keyboard-style interface and perhaps take it to some shows and earn donations/revenue to put towards buying the full sized Class 60. Although I would have to reach an agreement with a company that makes a train simulator game such as DTG or Auran to buy a commercial licence .

In all honest gents. It is a dream that I have to own my very own Class 60 as if I could make this dream become a reality. Its something that I am going to pursue. I am listening to all advice and I am taking notes. If there is any Class 60's left over when I get the funds together to proceed. I will buy one for a private showpiece for myself. But if there is none left when the time comes, then it will be bad luck on me although its not the end of the world should I fail .

Thanks for all the information folks as I am taking notice and I am logging everything down in my notepad for reference. Once I have made the artwork for my Class 60. I will make a new topic under Heritage and Preservation as my project should have its own section rather than piggybacking from this topic here. Although its related in most ways as my Class 60 would come from Toton most likely. But I want to be considerate to the original OP of this topic .

 

[D365]

Rest assurred that I would not have the Class 60 too near to any neighbouring walls as I have took that issue into account already .

Do you own a property which is suitable for the display of such a locomotive? And if you, do you have a job which is well-paid and secure enough to allow you to make the necessary investment? Before you even begin to seriously consider taking delivery of a Class 60...

 

[BR60062]

Do you own a property which is suitable for the display of such a locomotive? And if you, do you have a job which is well-paid and secure enough to allow you to make the necessary investment? Before you even begin to seriously consider taking delivery of a Class 60...

To put it this way. I am moving to the suburbs of a rather remote location (sorry but I am not divulging too much personal information on a public forum). But I will say this, if I want something in life that means something to me, then its got to be worked for and sacrifices have to be made. I don't have any gambling habits and I don't smoke. So that helps a little but I can cut back on things like buying music (I have a shed load of CD's and LP's to keep me going anyway), limiting days out to just a few times a year and then ploughing in by working hard and saving hard and keeping a high self disclipline. Maybe I would recommend probably this (saving a bit of left over money each week) for others to consider doing this as well if you want a decent pension when you retire from work if you have a low paid job.

Also as a side note, some self made millionnaires have done this and haven't taken any risks and its worked out for them. So I will try it with getting my Class 60 by ways and means and if I fail to save and own a Class 60. Then so be it, its not the end of the world and dreams can be a reality if enough effort and cutbacks to frivilous spending are done .

 

[Domh245]

To put it this way. I am moving to the suburbs of a rather remote location (sorry but I am not divulging too much personal information on a public forum). But I will say this, if I want something in life that means something to me, then its got to be worked for and sacrifices have to be made. I don't have any gambling habits and I don't smoke. So that helps a little but I can cut back on things like buying music (I have a shed load of CD's and LP's to keep me going anyway), limiting days out to just a few times a year and then ploughing in by working hard and saving hard and keeping a high self disclipline. Maybe I would recommend probably this (saving a bit of left over money each week) for others to consider doing this as well if you want a decent pension when you retire from work if you have a low paid job.

Also as a side note, some self made millionnaires have done this and haven't taken any risks and its worked out for them. So I will try it with getting my Class 60 by ways and means and if I fail to save and own a Class 60. Then so be it, its not the end of the world and dreams can be a reality if enough effort and cutbacks to frivilous spending are done .

You sound like you might fit in well on something like superscrimpers. "How to raise £450k by saving a little every week by BR60062". How long do you think it'll take to raise all of this money?

 

[BR60062]

At least two class 31s and a 37 have already received coats of EWS livery in preservation.

Thanks for that. I wasn't sure as I was under the impression that the EWS trademark was still owned by DB Schenker. But if that is no longer the case. I will consider the EWS liveries Class 60's as well .

A rockery arrangement (on a suitably grand scale!) would complement a coat of "Trainload Construction" livery - Trainload Freight never had an Agricultural or "Shrubbery" sub-sector.

If I go for triple-grey livery. I will most likely paint the chosen BR livery that it was in before their repaints of post-BR privatisation . Say if I got 60084 for example, I would have it in the metals sector livery that it had from new if I remember right . 60086 originally wore the coal sector livery, so if it became that one I bought. It would wear the BR coal livery. So for my interests, it would be any of the 1993/4 built Class 60's that would interest me when I buy one.

You sound like you might fit in well on something like superscrimpers. "How to raise £450k by saving a little every week by BR60062". How long do you think it'll take to raise all of this money?

In all honesty I would say that it would take me about 10 years or so to get that amount. About 3-5 years to secure a Class 60 in its "as-is" state . So buying the Class 60 would be the best bet first and then raising funds to pay for the upgrade work would be the most sensible option here as if I wanted it running. I could put it in covered storage that would reduce it from decaying further under the elements. Even a tarp over the locomotive would protect the locomotive a bit more than it being laid out in the open at Toton in bad weather :roll:. Also there is those metal sheds that come in kits that I could build around my Class 60 that are used for depot sheds for vehicles etc.

Besides that. The AC Loco Group are doing something similar with their Class 89 as they had to raise funds to secure the locomotive to prevent it from the cutters torch. Then they are overhauling/replacing parts in the Class 89 as and when funds permit. I read somewhere that the AC loco group are planning to make the Class 89 mainline ready or something from what I have read on the forum and I wish them well with that as its nice to see prototypes in preservation .

Perhaps later. I could arrange something for the Class 60 that I am after such as replacing/overhauling parts as and when funds would permit. But equally so, I would be happy with a static Class 60 in the garden on display as I mentioned earlier .

 

[Carntyne]

Still enjoying this thread.

BR60062 Were you not calling for them to be turned into razor blades a few pages ago?

 

[D365]

Ten years of "scrimping and saving" would net you half a million?? I'd still like to know what kind of disposable income you have.

 

[CosherB]

Cloud cuckoo land fantasy. There really is more to life than living in abject poverty for the sake of owning 130 tonnes of steel. Admirable intentions, but the whole scheme is just too far fetched to take seriously.

 

[richieb1971]

In all honesty I would say that it would take me about 10 years or so to get that amount. About 3-5 years to secure a Class 60 in its "as-is" state .

If its taking that long its not worth it. Your just like the rest of us. At first you created the illusion it was a matter of taking the money out of the bank, or at a push, remortgaging part of your house.

I'd say to make this realistic you need about another 3 like minded people.

I hate to side with CosherB, but I'd rather see all the 60's go to the torch than you try to make this dream a reality at the expense of 10 "good" years of your life.

 

[Harbornite]

Somehow I don't think the message is getting across to the forum's space cadet...

 

[BestWestern]

I rather like the idea of gutting one and turning it into a static holiday home...

 

[BR60062]

Maybe you are right . It was a nice dream but I have woken up now and I will focus on something else that is worth it like a model railway .

I love negative people :roll:.

 

[CosherB]

Maybe you are right . It was a nice dream but I have woken up now and I will focus on something else that is worth it like a model railway .

I love negative people :roll:.

If you want to do something that will make a genuine difference to your local community, get in touch with these folks in Oakham. You never know, you might enjoy it ...

http://www.varutland.org.uk/

 

[richieb1971]

Maybe you are right . It was a nice dream but I have woken up now and I will focus on something else that is worth it like a model railway .

I love negative people :roll:.

I support you in principle. But the fact remains that if you go alone the benefits are that you have one in the back yard/garden. Wouldn't saving one example of the class 60 be a more realistic goal with other people?

What is it that excites you to have one in the back garden?

If you can get a class 60 shell on a couple of bogies for £100k in your garden, its just a static piece. Wouldn't you rather go the full swing and get one up and running again with like minded people?

I'm not saying you shouldn't follow up this dream. But i've done things with rose tinted glasses on before and I ended up regretting a lot of it (not all of it haha). I fear once you have laid down the down payment you'll feel obligated to continue.

I bought a Euro millions ticket yesterday thinking about this project. If anything changes in my life where I have this kind of money I'll most definitely start up a project of my own and invite you along for the ride. But sorry, no dragons, rockery or anything like that.

 

[Harbornite]

It would be more realistic to ask DB cargo to repaint one of their operational 60s into trainload whichever-sector livery when they reach their twilight years. I'd like to see that.

 

[BR60062]

I support you in principle. But the fact remains that if you go alone the benefits are that you have one in the back yard/garden. Wouldn't saving one example of the class 60 be a more realistic goal with other people?

What is it that excites you to have one in the back garden?

If you can get a class 60 shell on a couple of bogies for £100k in your garden, its just a static piece. Wouldn't you rather go the full swing and get one up and running again with like minded people?

I'm not saying you shouldn't follow up this dream. But i've done things with rose tinted glasses on before and I ended up regretting a lot of it (not all of it haha). I fear once you have laid down the down payment you'll feel obligated to continue.

I bought a Euro millions ticket yesterday thinking about this project. If anything changes in my life where I have this kind of money I'll most definitely start up a project of my own and invite you along for the ride. But sorry, no dragons, rockery or anything like that.

Hi Richie,

That latter remark wasn't aimed at you buddy. I would love to reach out and work with others on a Class 60 and I have even written to the Class 60 and offered my help. But they are either ignoring my e-mail or maybe they didn't receive it as I used the contact form on their website. So I will try again tomorrow but if they are not interested in my offer of help. Then going it alone is really the only other option that I have on this project of owning a Class 60 even it is a static show piece .

In all honesty. Those 10 years of me working hard and putting work and love into my pride and joy would be worth every penny and sweat drop as it would be something that I would enjoy and it would be fun. They always say that time flies when you are having fun mate . The Bank is out of the question because a heritage project like this would not make they enough profit to make it viable for them to provide me a loan for the locomotive. Be it a secured loan or otherwise .

With the attitude of some banks and the way they are towards their customers is on the borderline to that of a loan shark in my opinion minus the bats and bars . A right sad state of affairs if you ask me .

 

[james60059]

I notice that oil tanker trains (aviation fuel etc) are hauled by 60's. But cement trains which are equally as long seem to have 66's.

And recently i've seen a lot of the fuel tank trains hauled by 66's as well.

So i'm not really following the logic of why the 60's are needed in the first place, in any shape or form.

6M35/6E54 Humber - Kingsbury - Humber has seen a single Class 66 with load 32 over the last couple of months. Not sure how it fared or if there was any pulling issues though.

 

[BR60062]

6M35/6E54 Humber - Kingsbury - Humber has seen a single Class 66 with load 32 over the last couple of months. Not sure how it fared or if there was any pulling issues though.

If that's the one that passes through Barnetby at about 1800 give and take. 66162 was struggling a bit when I filmed it on the 10th of August.

Here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLOr_ZSadNs

Skip to 20:31 as its in about there on the video that I did in August this year. Seems to me that the Class 66's do struggle a bit on those heavy oil trains. As where the Class 60's seem to have the extra power on those trains.

 

[CosherB]

If that's the one that passes through Barnetby at about 1800 give and take. 66162 was struggling a bit when I filmed it on the 10th of August.

Here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLOr_ZSadNs

Skip to 20:31 as its in about there on the video that I did in August this year. Seems to me that the Class 66's do struggle a bit on those heavy oil trains. As where the Class 60's seem to have the extra power on those trains.

Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that 66162 was struggling - the engine was idling as it passed you?

Also, how does a Class 60 have "extra power" when the engine is rated with 200 bhp less than a Class 66?

 

[richieb1971]

Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that 66162 was struggling - the engine was idling as it passed you?

Also, how does a Class 60 have "extra power" when the engine is rated with 200 bhp less than a Class 66?

Agreed that 66162 wasn't struggling in the video (at least not on the evidence of the video). However its common knowledge that the class 60's traction effort is better than that of a class 66. I think you know this and your just arguing little nit picky things for the sake of it.

 

[Harbornite]

Agreed that 66162 wasn't struggling in the video (at least not on the evidence of the video). However its common knowledge that the class 60's traction effort is better than that of a class 66. I think you know this and your just arguing little nit picky things for the sake of it.

I think it's good to clarify the difference between tractive effort and horsepower.

For example, your common/ garden shed (class 66/0) has an engine output of 3300hp, a power at rail of 3000hp and a maximum tractive effort of 409kN whilst a 66/6 has the same horsepowers but a max tractive effort of 467kN.

In comparison, the class 60 has an output of 3100hp, a a power at rail of 2415hp but a tractive effort of 474kN and the class 70 has an output of 3686hp, a continous tractive effort of 427kN and a max tractive effort of 544kN.

 

[Townsend Hook]

I think it's good to clarify the difference between tractive effort and horsepower.

For example, your common/ garden shed (class 66/0) has an engine output of 3300hp, a power at rail of 3000hp and a maximum tractive effort of 409kN whilst a 66/6 has the same horsepowers but a max tractive effort of 467kN.

In comparison, the class 60 has an output of 3100hp, a a power at rail of 2415hp but a tractive effort of 474kN and the class 70 has an output of 3686hp, a continous tractive effort of 427kN and a max tractive effort of 544kN.

To put it further into perspective a class 67 has a 3200hp engine and max tractive effort of 144kN, less than a third of that of a class 60. It all comes down to intended purpose, with 60s being intended as 60mph heavy freight machines, most 66s being 75mph general freight haulers and 67s being 125mph passenger locos.

 

[Harbornite]

To put it further into perspective a class 67 has a 3200hp engine and max tractive effort of 144kN, less than a third of that of a class 60. It all comes down to intended purpose, with 60s being intended as 60mph heavy freight machines, most 66s being 75mph general freight haulers and 67s being 125mph passenger locos.

Very true.

As another comparison, the class 67 has a 3200hp engine and max tractive effort of 144kN while the class 68 has an output of 3750hp and 317kN of tractive effort, but its top speed its 25mph less.