Gatwick Airport: Rail Replacement Bus disruption (06/05)

[Robertj21a]

Well, they could have a backup plan where if it is forecast that large amounts of people are going to travel to a destination, they can book the weekends before or after the event, and if it is realised that large amounts of people are traveling, simply cancel that weeks engineering works and move it to the next week. I can't believe that such a system can't be organised

You may need to re-read that yourself to see that it's quite unrealistic. These are large scale works that will have required significant planning, and resources allocated, over very many months. You can't just move equipment and people around as you feel like it because of something that crops up.

 

[EM2]

many people who book their holidays in advance cannot avoid this, so for Southern suggestion people should avoid travelling is stupid.
Having to queue for a bus after a 10 hour flight, no wonder there's a punchup!

Who books a holiday without researching how they're going to get home from the airport?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who books a holiday without researching how they're going to get home from the airport?

They probably do it around the time they book their flight, which is normally, for holidays, *way* in advance of the railway deciding if it can be bothered to operate trains that day or if it would prefer to get its toolbox out for a bit of Bank Holiday tinkering instead.

More seriously, though, bank holidays are a rubbish time to do it (unless it's because all three days are needed) - like for motorway roadworks, they should just choose other random weekends (Highways Agency practice is actually to remove or downsize as many roadworks as possible for a BH). The one possible exception is Easter, where the Saturday and Sunday are very quiet travel days as anyone going away goes Friday and returns Monday.

 

[Mag_seven]

Who books a holiday without researching how they're going to get home from the airport?

They do - they will conclude that it's OK as "there is a railway station at the Airport".

 

[The Planner]

Really? The Engineering Access Statement for 2019 is already on version 3 which covers up to Dec 2019 and version 1 for 2020 is out in October. The TOCs are all consulted on it and have to agree it, so its far from a case of operators not knowing what is planned and they expect us to put work into bank holiday periods. How many people book holidays over a year out?

 

[EM2]

They probably do it around the time they book their flight, which is normally, for holidays, *way* in advance of the railway deciding if it can be bothered to operate trains that day or if it would prefer to get its toolbox out for a bit of Bank Holiday tinkering instead.

Anyone who doesn't check again a lot closer to the dates of their flights is a fool.

 

[diffident]

Appears as though the two trains that have left Brighton for Victoria this evening are hitting delays as well.

1Z84 left Brighton on-time (19:56) but is now losing time

1Z86 left Brighton 20L (21:32) - if it keeps that up, it'll get into Victoria after 23:30

 

[Antman]

Who books a holiday without researching how they're going to get home from the airport?

Quite a lot of people I would think.

 

[EM2]

Quite a lot of people I would think.

Then I have absolutely no sympathy. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone who doesn't check again a lot closer to the dates of their flights is a fool.

They check...and then they do what? Long haul holiday flights are often non changeable and non refundable.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
More seriously, though, bank holidays are a rubbish time to do it (unless it's because all three days are needed) - like for motorway roadworks, they should just choose other random weekends (Highways Agency practice is actually to remove or downsize as many roadworks as possible for a BH). The one possible exception is Easter, where the Saturday and Sunday are very quiet travel days as anyone going away goes Friday and returns Monday.

I think that's the attraction of a bank holiday weekend in terms of significant engineering works.

 

[EM2]

They check...and then they do what? Long haul holiday flights are often non changeable and non refundable.

Make alternative arrangements! Look at coaches, see how much taxis are, see if someone can pick them up.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Then I have absolutely no sympathy. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

I want to fly into Gatwick on the August Bank Holiday weekend. Could you tell me what, if any, railway engineering works are happening then?

 

[theironroad]

Deleted

 

[The Planner]

If you are prepared to trawl through the engineering access statement you can download it and look through section 7 which is the disruptive section. It is in the same set of files with the Timetable Planning Rules from the NR website.

 

[EM2]

I want to fly into Gatwick on the August Bank Holiday weekend. Could you tell me what, if any, railway engineering works are happening then?

Not yet, no. But, as I said above, you can check nearer the date, or you can subscribe to fortnightly emails from TOCs which will keep you informed.

 

[Mag_seven]

They check...and then they do what? Long haul holiday flights are often non changeable and non refundable.

Not to mention people flying in to the UK from a foreign country for the first time - I wonder what sort of first impression of our transport system they get if they are confronted with what happened today?

 

[Antman]

Then I have absolutely no sympathy. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

What absolute nonsense. If they did check they would find buses replace trains between Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges, no big deal surely? How exactly are they supposed to know that the bus provision would be totally inadequate?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Make alternative arrangements! Look at coaches, see how much taxis are, see if someone can pick them up.

Or trust that if the railway says it's operating a replacement bus service that it will actually do so and that the capacity will be adequate?

 

[Joe Paxton]

What absolute nonsense. If they did check they would find buses replace trains between Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges, no big deal surely? How exactly are they supposed to know that the bus provision would be totally inadequate?

As I mentioned in this post (on another thread), my experience of RRB provision to/from Gatwick during a previous blockade of the Brighton main line (Xmas & New Year 2025-16) was pretty positive - lots of RRBs between Gatwick and East Grinstead, seemed to be well organised.

 

[IainG81]

Can't help thinking to myself they would be much better doing this duing a normal work day. Not a bank holiday weekend full of travellers. Seems very poor planning. Southern should have thought about usuling another route maybe going via Dorking/Horsham instead to get to Brighton.

 

[whoosh]

I think there's a case to legislate for more Bank Holidays so they are less of a big deal and there are more of them to spread the engineering work misery.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Can't help thinking to myself they would be much better doing this duing a normal work day. Not a bank holiday weekend full of travellers. Seems very poor planning. Southern should have thought about usuling another route maybe going via Dorking/Horsham instead to get to Brighton.

A "normal work day" for the Brighton Main Line (BML) involves an awful lot of commuters!

For what it's worth, there are going to be week long closures of the BML in October of this year and February next year (2019), during the school half-term holidays, as part of Network Rail's Brighton Main Line Improvement Project, see:
http://brightonmainline.co.uk/

There will be no direct trains between Three Bridges and Brighton, or between Three Bridges and Lewes, and no trains at intermediate stations. There will be a service between Brighton and London, but these will run via Littlehampton and Horsham (so a direct indirect service, as it were!).

Trains between London and Gatwick will still run, as this is north of the blockade.

The dates are as follows:
Sat 20 to Sun 28 October 2018
Sat 16 to Sun 24 February 2019

I wonder if this will entail rail replacement bus pandemonium? I'd stay well clear if at all possible!

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think there's a case to legislate for more Bank Holidays so they are less of a big deal and there are more of them to spread the engineering work misery.

And we have the winning answer!

 

[Railguy1]

I understand the dates to do such work cannot change and are necessary. What I do not understand is why more rail replacement services could not have been organized - surely its better to have an excess amount of supply so that such situations can be avoided?

 

[Deepgreen]

GTR's failure to plan adequate replacement transport (inc. possible buses and diverted trains via Dorking) is symptomatic of their apparent inability to learn from previous mistakes, or simply their unwillingness to do so, putting the cost of adequate alternative transport as too high compared with possible compensation payments. I don't really know which to believe, but my years of experience at the hands of GTR would point me to utter incompetence as the cause.

Given the vast number of engineering possessions on the Brighton line for as far back as I can recall, is it doomed forever to have this level of disruption, and, if so, does this further strengthen the case for the Uckfield to Lewes re-opening?

 

[Llanigraham]

I understand the dates to do such work cannot change and are necessary. What I do not understand is why more rail replacement services could not have been organized - surely its better to have an excess amount of supply so that such situations can be avoided?

Err? Perhaaps because none of the bus companies wanted to do the job?

 

[Deepgreen]

And we have the winning answer!

Engineering work will always expand to fill the slots available! More Bank Holidays will simply mean kids clamouring to travel on each BH and parents unable to deny them - back to square one.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I understand the dates to do such work cannot change and are necessary. What I do not understand is why more rail replacement services could not have been organized - surely its better to have an excess amount of supply so that such situations can be avoided?

There are only a finite number of vehicles and drivers available for Rail Replacement work...unless you fancy decimating their normal duties the day before and after, with the resulting PR disaster that would cause!

 

[tsr]

It wasn’t possible to plan trains to run via Horsham-Dorking because it was closed for an engineering possession (yes, that happened again...). That route reopened at about 1530 when Network Rail and their contractors were fortunately able to lift the possession once they had cleared the work being undertaken. (Obviously that could potentially make that route more vulnerable to suspension in future, suffering as it does with ongoing embankment issues, electrical faults and suchlike.)

The Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges bus was timetabled to run every 5 minutes, with many more buses on standby. Eventually a total of 55ish extra buses were deployed/resourced in the middle of the day - quite an impressive feat for a Bank Holiday Sunday lunchtime. Unsurprisingly, this cleared the queues in an impressive time.

Unfortunately the type of buses being used - and standing passengers - meant the buses were forbidden from the motorway and as such each circuit took longer. The 12 per hour bus frequency also did not quite seem to account for the combination of air travellers and the sheer volume emerging from the trains from London. The Gatwick emergency queuing system, however, is a method which has been planned and practiced for many years, and was fully implemented for one of its first times in anger - hence various references on Twitter to being redirected via long detours on the ramps. It can swallow one hell of a lot of people, so this meant the service could still run, just flowing poorly until extra buses arrived.

Nothing I have seen indicates the problem can realistically be able to be deemed as severe for people returning from the South Coast in the evening, as although everywhere was crowded, additional trains and buses (kept on duty from earlier, or resourced later) did seem to pick up people promptly.