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Gatwick Airport: Rail Replacement Bus disruption (06/05)

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RichardKing

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #8 originally in this thread.

A similar cock-up unfolding at Gatwick this afternoon, with a two-day blockade between Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges leading to massive queues for bus replacement services outside of the Airport. BTP have actually considered closing the Station and Airport to prevent overcrowding.
 
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RichardKing

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A similar cock-up unfolding at Gatwick this afternoon, with a two-day blockade between Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges leading to massive queues for bus replacement services outside of the Airport. BTP have actually considered closing the Station and Airport to prevent overcrowding.

The Media is already on it...expect statements from Angie Doll in the next few days, suggesting that lessons will - once again - be learnt.
 

JonathanH

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They are actually running almost as comprehensive a train service as the available infrastructure allows but with what may appear poor decisions about exactly what is being run - the issue is Network Rail taking possessions at three locations and GTR's thought that people will be put off travelling by buses being involved.

Possessions are:

All lines Gatwick to Three Bridges (exclusive of stations) to do work at Tinsley Green Junction

Slow lines Purley to Windmill Bridge Junction and Norwood Junction - East Grinstead line closed

All lines Norwood Junction to South Bermondsey Junction

There is 11tph through 3 platforms at East Croydon - 5tph from London Victoria to Gatwick Airport - 2 x Gatwick Express non stop, 2 x Gatwick via Quarry, 1 x Gatwick via Redhill and, taking up the most capacity, 2 x Caterham stopping on the fast line from Balham to Purley - the other 4tph are 2 x Thameslinks and 2 x London Bridge to Tattenham Corner.

The Caterham service means that the Victoria to Gatwick services need to be flighted - the Purley Oaks and South Croydon stops are in the Tattenham Corner train. Only 1tph via Redhill to accommodate the GWR service from Redhill to Gatwick (ie platform capacity at Gatwick with platform 2 closed)

The problem seems to be that demand is now such that this kind of cut back in service can't cope with the demand on the Brighton line and they need to come up with a way to run more / be a bit more inventive.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Well, blow me down with a feather. Bank holiday weekend, sun comes out, Londoners want to get to Brighton for a day out. Who could possibly have foreseen such a scenario. What with the 'hottest ever May Day' being forecast on every TV weather bulletin since last Sunday.

In other news, rail companies continue to trouser massive disruption payments from Network Rail whilst not spending the same on adequate replacement services.
 

JonathanH

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Yeah, Also there are 1826, 1917, 1957, 2112 ex Brighton back to London

Ah, probably a wise move - make it difficult to get to Brighton in the morning but run a few relief trains to get the people who did travel back home.
 

LLivery

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They are actually running almost as comprehensive a train service as the available infrastructure allows but with what may appear poor decisions about exactly what is being run - the issue is Network Rail taking possessions at three locations and GTR's thought that people will be put off travelling by buses being involved.

The problem seems to be that demand is now such that this kind of cut back in service can't cope with the demand on the Brighton line and they need to come up with a way to run more / be a bit more inventive.

It's baffling they thought three possessions over May bank holiday on one of the busiest lines in the country with a poor bus replacement was a good idea.

They knew it would be nice weather, they know that lots of people fly on a bank holiday weekend and they also know people like going to the beach on a nice day. London is absolutely rammed this weekend, it was obvious people wanted/needed to travel. It just sounds like more incompetence from Britain's favourite operator.
 

JonathanH

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The problem with the these routes is that there really is no good time to do engineering work - a bit like the West Coast Mainline which practically shuts down on the Sunday of each of the three Bank Holiday weekends.
 

EM2

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Well, blow me down with a feather. Bank holiday weekend, sun comes out, Londoners want to get to Brighton for a day out. Who could possibly have foreseen such a scenario. What with the 'hottest ever May Day' being forecast on every TV weather bulletin since last Sunday.
And the engineering work being planned and locked in the schedule for about a year.
 

LLivery

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The problem with the these routes is that there really is no good time to do engineering work - a bit like the West Coast Mainline which practically shuts down on the Sunday of each of the three Bank Holiday weekends.

True, I'm not too critical of the timing of the work, it's the fact GTR haven't got their act together (again) this weekend. Not even attempting a diversion service until now and it seems only now having ticket acceptance. Surely seeing the hot weather being reported, increased bus replacements should've been on the agenda.
 

trainmania100

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There's been quite a bit of work between Gatwick and three bridges and horley, some days the HOBC has been there during the day time with some lines open and some lines shut during the possession, I'm guessing they needed all 4 lines shut today then?
 

al78

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I am planning to travel from Horsham to Eastbourne via Three Bridges tomorrow morning. Will this route bypass the problems?
 

Bletchleyite

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They knew it would be nice weather, they know that lots of people fly on a bank holiday weekend and they also know people like going to the beach on a nice day. London is absolutely rammed this weekend, it was obvious people wanted/needed to travel. It just sounds like more incompetence from Britain's favourite operator.

Given that even normally a bit lackadaisical LNR/WMT (they of the full and standing 4-car trains on weekends) have been running near enough everything as 12-car south of Northampton yesterday and today, I figure they noticed. GTR do make me wonder how an organisation can be so institutionally incompetent on so many levels.
 

diffident

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True, I'm not too critical of the timing of the work, it's the fact GTR haven't got their act together (again) this weekend. Not even attempting a diversion service until now and it seems only now having ticket acceptance. Surely seeing the hot weather being reported, increased bus replacements should've been on the agenda.

Precisely, and it's not like Southern hadn't anticipated this. A look through their twitter posts is rightly informing folk of the disruption, and upto this morning - they were tweeting that "a queuing system" would be in operation at Gatwick.

If you didn't anticipate high volumes, why would you have a queuing system in place??

A similarly agree that this smacks of a total failure at a planning and corporate level.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Any weekend in February frankly - with extra time for snow , frost etc would be a sensible time ,along with the Arun Valley , - Dorking route open just in case.

With maybe some open train crew diagrams booked on ...?
 

Railcar

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Inserting a chord between Arundel and Angmering would give a route from Victoria to three platforms at Brighton without reversing. It would increase the load on the level crossings of that part of the West Coastway (and increase the load at the Eastfields crossing if that route was used) but a London - Brighton run in under 80 minutes should be possible.

Come to that, it offers a non-reversing alternative to the BML from London Bridge and several other London termini.

The engineering problems aren't great. The land is flat and there are no buildings that would need compulsory purchase.
 
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JonathanH

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Any weekend in February frankly - with extra time for snow , frost etc would be a sensible time ,along with the Arun Valley , - Dorking route open just in case.

With maybe some open train crew diagrams booked on ...?

Funnily enough, there are already closures planned for February (and October).
 

Samuel88

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And the engineering work being planned and locked in the schedule for about a year.
Your point being? Network Rail know that Bank Holidays are busy, they should have contingency plans for scenarios such as this!
 

EM2

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Your point being? Network Rail know that Bank Holidays are busy, they should have contingency plans for scenarios such as this!
My point being that posters pointing out that the weather forecast has been for exceptionally good weather (the best for forty years) for a week are asking NR to know what that forecast was going to be a year ago, and plan accordingly.
 

Samuel88

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My point being that posters pointing out that the weather forecast has been for exceptionally good weather (the best for forty years) for a week are asking NR to know what that forecast was going to be a year ago, and plan accordingly.
Well, they could have a backup plan where if it is forecast that large amounts of people are going to travel to a destination, they can book the weekends before or after the event, and if it is realised that large amounts of people are traveling, simply cancel that weeks engineering works and move it to the next week. I can't believe that such a system can't be organised
 

yorksrob

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I think the fault in this case lies with the TOC, rather than Network Rail.

The diversions through Horsham should have been plan A, rather than plan B.
 

EM2

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Well, they could have a backup plan where if it is forecast that large amounts of people are going to travel to a destination, they can book the weekends before or after the event, and if it is realised that large amounts of people are traveling, simply cancel that weeks engineering works and move it to the next week. I can't believe that such a system can't be organised
I get the feeling that you have no idea how much time, and resources, go into a blockade like this. The personnel and equipment being used on this job will be needed on other jobs next week, so you'll have to cancel them to fit in this work, and that will knock-on throughout the calendar. The materials needed will now need to be stored somewhere, and a lot of it will already be loaded onto wagons so they're now not available either.
 

Joe Paxton

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Interesting Southern tweeting no wait at Gatwick at the moment but they expect to get busier in the hour and the pictures showing "chaos" at Gatwick shows queues of buses and people moving along

video filmed about 5pm shows "chaos" https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/993159158995324928

These other tweets from earlier in the day seem to paint a slightly different picture (on the serenity-chaos continuum, further along the line towards the latter!):

https://twitter.com/joemedforth/status/993079995760332801
This entire crowd of people just tried to jump the queue following the arrival of the buses. @SouthernRailUK this is beyond a joke. I feel a complaint in the works... #SouthernRailways @Gatwick_Airport
https://twitter.com/LoisBray/status/993077736787849219
Chaos @Gatwick_Airport due to @SouthernRailUK #railreplacement #engineeringworks. Crowds pushing through the queues, getting v aggressive & out of control. Avoid if you can.
https://twitter.com/brightonsnapper/status/993131427012194306
Two hour wait for rail replacement - 4000 people waiting at Gatwick so far 40 extra coaches ordered to move passenger !!! Story on @bbcsoutheast @BBCSouthNews @wscountytimes @brightonargus

(All three tweets accompanied by video clips or a photo of crowds queueing to get on rail replacement buses at Gatwick Airport's forecourt)


The last one, mentioning a "two hour wait", is from someone who appears to be a freelance video journalist and so may have an incentive to tell the worst side of the story.

(Post edited to add quotes from the linked tweets)
 
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GodAtum

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many people who book their holidays in advance cannot avoid this, so for Southern suggestion people should avoid travelling is stupid.
Having to queue for a bus after a 10 hour flight, no wonder there's a punchup!
 
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