Gatwick Airport Station closed due to suspicious package - now to reopen shortly (22/11)

[yorksrob]

Why speculate when you can do one google search?

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I'm guessing that would have involved unusual use of the fast line platforms.

 

[Deepgreen]

My 9T was not to stop at Gatwick but to call at Horley additionally. Gatwick was dead not a single person including staff to be seen on the platforms.


I don't think many outside the peaks. They could easily be changed to Three bridges PNB point.


Could be quicker there is a public footpath that follows and crosses the railway, or not cross the railway and cut through passed a car park.

That's what evacuation entails...

 

[Somewhere]

I don't think many outside the peaks. They could easily be changed to Three bridges PNB point.

.

How easy is it to alter crew change points? You've got to find all the trains which have crew changes, then you've got to find the drivers to tell them, and hope you can get hold of them.
5+ minutes longer travelling in each direction, would be 10+ minutes longer. And if the driver they're relieving is supposed to be going in the opposite direction?
Crew workings are stupidly complicated. Its not easy at all.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I'm guessing that would have involved unusual use of the fast line platforms.

The same platforms used everyday by peak Littlehamptons? Get the red pens out..

Other search engines are avaliable

I use Duck Duck Go to be fair.

 

[yorksrob]

The same platforms used everyday by peak Littlehamptons? Get the red pens out..

You learn something new.....

 

[Horizon22]

How easy is it to alter crew change points? You've got to find all the trains which have crew changes, then you've got to find the drivers to tell them, and hope you can get hold of them.
5+ minutes longer travelling in each direction, would be 10+ minutes longer. And if the driver they're relieving is supposed to be going in the opposite direction?
Crew workings are stupidly complicated. Its not easy at all.

Not that easy (as in its intensive/time consuming to tell every relieving and relief driver and potentially arrange taxis / extra "passing") but its certainly feasible.

I do think the vast majority of crew changes are at Three Bridges though because there is also a driver depot there so it's a natural place to do it.

 

[Somewhere]

Not that easy (as in its intensive/time consuming to tell every relieving and relief driver and potentially arrange taxis / extra "passing") but its certainly feasible.

I do think the vast majority of crew changes are at Three Bridges though because there is also a driver depot there so it's a natural place to do it.

Southern have crew changes everywhere, regardless of whether there's a crew depot or not. You need staff to go through train crew diagrams to see which ones have crew changes. It a laborious process, and there isn't ordinary time to do it during disruption.
Hence why trains sit at locations waiting relief whenever anything happens

 

[Horizon22]

Southern have crew changes everywhere, regardless of whether there's a crew depot or not. You need staff to go through train crew diagrams to see which ones have crew changes. It a laborious process, and there isn't ordinary time to do it during disruption.
Hence why trains sit at locations waiting relief whenever anything happens

They do not have them "everywhere". All TOCs have agreed relieving points and there will be several main ones across the network, and some lesser used ones.

Controllers have tools and systems to check what trains have crew changes and where. As I already said, it is not that easy but mainly because it is time consuming in disruption. But it would be feasible to do if someone was dedicated to it and checking all services booked to stop.

If a train sits at a location awaiting relief whenever "anything happens" that implies resource controllers and service controllers are not on the ball. Of course the more widespread and serious the disruption then yes it because exponetially harder to track every possible service.

 

[Somewhere]

They do not have them "everywhere". All TOCs have agreed relieving points and there will be several main ones across the network, and some lesser used ones.

Controllers have tools and systems to check what trains have crew changes and where. As I already said, it is not that easy but mainly because it is time consuming in disruption. But it would be feasible to do if someone was dedicated to it and checking all services booked to stop.

If a train sits at a location awaiting relief whenever "anything happens" that implies resource controllers and service controllers are not on the ball. Of course the more widespread and serious the disruption then yes it because exponetially harder to track every possible service.

And who is going to be dedicated to check trains? There aren't controllers sitting around waiting for disruption to occur.
Fair enough, maybe 'everywhere' might be an exaggeration, but I think you would be surprised about how many locations on Southern have crew relief points, and how many different drivers can be booked to work just one train.
A train will sit somewhere waiting relief, not because a controller isn't on the ball, its because the driver isn't there. A controller cannot magic a driver out of thin air

 

[Horizon22]

And who is going to be dedicated to check trains? There aren't controllers sitting around waiting for disruption to occur.

Of course there are! What do you think the whole point of controllers are?!

Fair enough, maybe 'everywhere' might be an exaggeration, but I think you would be surprised about how many locations on Southern have crew relief points, and how many different drivers can be booked to work just one train.
A train will sit somewhere waiting relief, not because a controller isn't on the ball, its because the driver isn't there. A controller cannot magic a driver out of thin air

A driver isn't there because of disruption, normally. If you are on the ball, you check the related disruption, the lateness and the crew workings and you either cover a job (if cover/spares are available) or amend the service accordingly (e.g. run the train fast to get the driver back on time) or manage the delay (don't block a running line, advise signaller etc.).

It can all be managed - as best possible.

 

[Somewhere]

Of course there are! What do you think the whole point of controllers are?!



A driver isn't there because of disruption, normally. If you are on the ball, you check the related disruption, the lateness and the crew workings and you either cover a job (if cover/spares are available) or amend the service accordingly (e.g. run the train fast to get the driver back on time) or manage the delay (don't block a running line, advise signaller etc.).

It can all be managed - as best possible.

Crew workings on Southern are extremely complicated. Anything more than minor disruption becomes extremely difficult to manage

 

[AndrewE]

Crew workings on Southern are extremely complicated. Anything more than minor disruption becomes extremely difficult to manage

maybe that's a bit of investment that is needed then: unscramble the interworkings a bit, just accept that an extra 5 or 10 minutes between duties to keep staff off widely differing routes would be money well spent and would greatly improve resilience.
The lesson has been already been learned once, keeping rolling stock on relatively self-contained routes in several parts of the country, so why not apply it to traincrew?

 

[Horizon22]

Crew workings on Southern are extremely complicated. Anything more than minor disruption becomes extremely difficult to manage

I don’t believe they are exceptionally more complicated than any other operator. And they are a larger organisation and have more controllers as a result.

 

[Somewhere]

maybe that's a bit of investment that is needed then: unscramble the interworkings a bit, just accept that an extra 5 or 10 minutes between duties to keep staff off widely differing routes would be money well spent and would greatly improve resilience.
The lesson has been already been learned once, keeping rolling stock on relatively self-contained routes in several parts of the country, so why not apply it to traincrew?

The May 2018 timetable change basically did that. But over the years since then its been undone

I don’t believe they are exceptionally more complicated than any other operator. And they are a larger organisation and have more controllers as a result.

Like I said, I think you would be surprised. Does Southern have more controllers? I don't believe they do

 

[Horizon22]

Like I said, I think you would be surprised. Does Southern have more controllers? I don't believe they do

I honestly don’t think I would.

Depends who you’re comparing it to of course.

 

[infobleep]

Of course if Gatwick Airport station is closed, what does the train crew do if their change is there? They can't wait there.

Would they contact control for permission to wait at Three Bridges or Horley for a relief?

 

[Somewhere]

Of course if Gatwick Airport station is closed, what does the train crew do if their change is there? They can't wait there.

Would they contact control for permission to wait at Three Bridges or Horley for a relief?

They would likely stop and advise the signaller they are waiting relief

 

[Bikeman78]

And who is going to be dedicated to check trains? There aren't controllers sitting around waiting for disruption to occur.

Isn't that literally what they are there for? If they are already busy when nothing is going wrong, then that TOC has a problem. In any case, what else do you suggest? If crew changes cannot happen at Gatwick, they will have to happen elsewhere.

On a general note, crew changes do seem far more frequent than 20 years ago. In the days of VEPs, the same driver and guard would usually work all the way from Victoria to Horsham, or through to Bognor Regis.

 

[Somewhere]

Isn't that literally what they are there for? If they are already busy when nothing is going wrong, then that TOC has a problem

'Nuff said. Nothing has been learnt from the May 2018 debacle