German Railways-Any better than ours?

[GNERman]

On a recent trip to Germany with my school me, my exchange partner and his father went from Jülbach (south Germany, border with Austria) to Munich by train.
The first train I went on was a class 628 DMU from Jülbach to Mühldorf. These units are similar to Pacers except not made from Bus Parts. They had three doors on each side and a small first class section.
We then got on the Munich train which was a Double Decker Push-Pull set with a german loco on the back.
On the way back we went on Munichs underground system which are class 423 EMU's with a Pantograph which at Munich East Station cam above the ground and on to Grafing.
Some of these trains are better ideas to what we have today e.g. Double Deckers, Push Pull etc.
What do you think-heres some shots of the trains on websites
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/BR628-Eisenbahnfotograph.jpg class 628
http://www.einbahn.org/218/218-421-a-mt.jpg diesel loco and push pull
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_vogel/2915459592/ class 423
I'll upload some of my shots later
In the meantime visit my YouTube site for more from Germany
The address is at the bottom

 

[Metroland]

My experience is German railways are the best in Europe along with Switzerland. The French and Dutch systems are good, but quite rough round the edges in many places. Spain also has a good system these days and Italy is improving. Ours are not that bad tbh it just suffers from decades of underinvestment, poor track layouts and short trains, as well as expensive costs and fares.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The remaining diesel routes in germany can be a bit crap, also the journey times in the former east germany can be quite long. However, DB are building new high speed lines.

 

[33056]

Give me Germany over the UK any day!

How can you compare a 628 to a pacer? They have bogies for a start and ride a hundred times better, the seats are a lot more comfortable as well.
The true German Railbus ( DB version and DR version ) are streets ahead in build and ride quality compared to a pacer.

As a general rule, I am no fan of modern stuff but some of their new units are actually quite pleasant to ride in compared to the cramped cattle trucks in this country. Also, if Pendolinos were like ICEs, I would actually use them a lot more rather than trying to avoid them at every opportunity.

 

[Phoenix]

I am hopefully going over to europe in the summer to see the Netherlands,Belgium and German railways and I hope to see alot better stuff than I do in this country.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Berlin-Dresden average about 60mph, not terribly good?

 

[Zamracene749]

Ok, done lots of miles(kilometres?) in northern Germany in the last two years, primarily visiting and taking out my kids- in other words actually using the train out of necessity, not bashing/spotting or whatever.

So the good things first-
clean,
very reliable(although not always as reliable as myth would have it!)
comfortable,
roomy,
dirt cheap( all day travel for 5 adults and my three kids @25 euro- excludes IC though),
luggage and bike space on all trains i've been on.
more to the point,plenty of seats for passengers on all trains i've been on( the only crowded trains being the peak s -bahn out of Hannover),
helpful,friendly and polite staff(without exception up to now- maybe i've been lucky?),
pretty comprehensive website(although see later re layout),
generally well thought out connections,
delightful ICEs that put our overcrowded main line cattle wagons to shame,
first class on almost all services if you want it(and not at extortionate prices, roughly double 2nd class),
compartment stock in everday use,
toilets on most trains,
a fair bit of loco hauled(with heads out),
trains you can see out the front of- certain ICE, new diesel units etc,
great facilities in main stations.

Bad things-
Web site a bugger to navigate,
terrible lighting and name signs at smaller halts,
typically european slow journey times on secondary lines.

 

[gordonthemoron]

another good thing about DB website is that if you do a journey search you get returned all the connections, plus which platforms they use. Plus, in a lot of cases ICE/ICE connections are on adjacent platforms and booked seats 'should' be directly opposite the carriage you've just got off

 

[D841]

I've made a couple of trips in Germany over the last two weeks. First saw me on an ICE-T (the tilting variety) which was deputising for the normal ICE2 from Duesseldorf to Bielefeld, so I got a driver's eye view.

The second was from Bielefeld to Basel the other day. Bought my ticket from a machine at Bielefeld station, to find it had routed me via Hannover, when I wanted and expected to go via Koeln. In the event, I missed the Hannover ICE by a whisker, so headed for the 101-hauled IC which I had intended to take in the first place, to Koeln via Wuppertal (a route I haven't travelled for years), then an ICE3 from Koeln to Basel. This was a double set, the rear one being detached at Karlsruhe (not the normal plan, I think). The lady grippers on both trains accepted my ticket for this route without any quibbling.

Next trip will be Berlin - Hamburg next week. From what I've read, that could be loco-hauled vice ICE.

Travelling in Germany is not always perfect, and no longer as cheap as it used to be, but it's still streets ahead of the most of the UK rail experience.

 

[Golden Gripper]

My latest experiences of DBSG punctuality are not so good.

Last February had several days in Koblenz. First day went by train and boat up river to Rudesheim and then caught the hourly RB service down the east bank of the Rhein. It should have been a through service to Koblenz, but we got put into the bay at Kaub as the train was defective, so had to wait for the next in this less than bustling and very chilly village. Then the following train was 10 late, lost further time en route and arrived Koblenz 30 late.

The next couple of days were OK, but we had booked to return via Saarbruken and Paris, partly because it was quicker than via Brussels but also to try out the new LGV Est. However, past Trier there was resignalling work being done so we missed our connection at Saarbruken.

Fortunately we didn't fare too badly. In the enquiry office we got an explanatory letter, then caught a stopping EMU to Metz, where we connected to the Paris TGV. Fortunately there were six spare places on the train and we managed to get two seats together.

The Gare du Nord was heaving, apparently it was the start of a French national holiday and most Parisiens seemed to want to go to London. On top of which it was a six nations England - France match in Paris. We showed our tickets and letter at the Eurostar office and after about half an hour of faffing about transfered our tickets to an evening train to St Pancras in time to catch the 2035 from Euston. Try getting that sort of service from Ryanair!

Since I got back I talked about DBSG reliability with someone who goes to Bamburg every year by rail (he likes the Rauchbier). He said that their punctuality had in his experience worstened over the years, and my problems were about normal.

Concerning the trains, my only comments would be that general ambience of local and stopping trains is pretty spartan, probably similar to a pacer, though better ride, and we tried out one of the privatised services starting in Germany. A company called Vectus has taken over the RB service from Koblenz up the pretty Lahn valley to Limburg, operated by new two car DMUs. Because most of the stations are unmanned the company have fitted a customer operated ticket machine in each coach. Neat.

 

[D841]

DB's record for punctuality went out of the window with re-unification in 1989. I haven't experienced all that much seriously late running over the last 8 years or so, though. The trains I've used on this trip so far have all been on time, by UK definitions of the phrase, if not German ones

 

[Nigel Gresley]

The DB's image in Germany has become severely tarnished in 2008. A recent brand analysis stated that there was no other corporation that currently has a worse image. At the beginning of last year there were strikes where public sympathy was behind the engine drivers when they discovered how low the rates were.

During last 2 years there has been considerable extra track maintenance causing widespread delays. This was due to lack of maintainance over the previous 10 years thanks to cost cutting measures intoduced to make the DB profitable in advance of privatisation. Similar cost cutting measures were experienced in the UK after privatisation with disastrous consequences.

The ICE services have been badly affected because whole fleets of ICEs have been needing emergency inspections after cracks have been discovered in their axles.

Also recently, the DB has received very bad PR from reports of several incidents where schoolchildren without a ticket have been forced off trains leaving them stranded. (e.g. on an unmanned station more than 30 kms from home.)

Thanks to the global financial crisis, the government have postponed the privatisation of the DB.


An independent test of punctuality produced the following statistic last February..

http://www.test.de/themen/auto-verkehr/test/-Deutsche-Bahn/1617492/1617492/

25% of all connections were missed.
38% of long distance services arrived late (i.e. at least 4 minutes late)
1 train in 3 was at least 4 minutes late
1 train in 7 was at least 10 minutes late


I hope they do better in 2009.

 

[D841]

Thanks for the stats. It's interesting that their definition of late running is 4 minutes or more; the UK system would change those stats somewhat. I'm aware of the bad image; the bottom line is that most of the population isn't in favour of their public service being privatised, and I'm not convinced that the Government is, either. The slanging match between Hartmut Mehdorn and Lord Berkeley a couple of years ago suggested to me that Herr M. wasn't really in favour either, regardless of what the official line is.

The ICE problems are interesting too. Compared to TGVs, ICEs are heavy trains, and I wonder if this is the real problem. Have the French had any major problems with their TGV fleet? I don't recall hearing about any.

 

[Birdbrain]

I took a trip over to Germany in July 2008 whilst going on tour with my Concert Band, i didnt expect to sample the railway system but while the rest of the band were shopping in Lubeck, my brother and I decided to see what the rail system was like.

We arrived at Lubeck HBF and tried to ask the lady at the desk for train ticket information. She told us to go back outside where we found a hut which sells tickets, rather like a Tourist Info Centre. This seemed strange although probably more sensible than crowding the impressive building with ticket counters. We boarded a regonial express to Hamburg HBF and were really impressed with all aspects of the journey! The double deck stock was comftable, the guards annoucments were useful and the train ran on time! We even found that if we propped the WC door open and opened the window we could hear the Class 218 Loco.

We returned to Lubeck stopping off at Ahresnburg? and Bad Oldselo? Excuse my spelling! This gave us a chance to see what the local services were like and again they had far more capacity than ours as well as comfort in the coaches. The train was formed of a 218 loco and push pull stock. As my only German Rail experience I may be wearing rose tinted glasses but DB were doing a super job from what we could see!

Jay

 

[Zamracene749]

Been thinking about this one lately, so for comparison here are my UK trips lately.

Many of the last years trips I have taken on the UK rail system have been pretty dire.

Five trips Durham to Banbury taken in 1st class- reasonable I suppose but rattly voyagers not ideal for long journeys plus were so overcrowded around the midlands thet access to the shop impossible and no sign of the at seat service. Pity anyone in 2nd, crushed in with faces up against the windows. One journey witnessed 1st class open ticket holders standing York to Durham(and probably beyond). Also saw a young family thrown out of 1st for sitting down when the toddlers had been literally pressed against the glass door of our coach

Two returns Durham- Barnstaple. Same issues as above plus no buffet on the HST returns(booked on purpose of course meant warm beer and no food at all(sold out). Well done arriva for ripping out the shops then......Oh and pacers on the Barnstaple branch( overheard punters complaining although i don't actually mind them that much).

One return Banbury- Brum. Talked the then partner into going by train instead of taking the car. Result was me, her and two kids standing all the way in the baggage area of a 220 out and back. Never again. Sure that had something to do with us splitting up lol.......

Two returns Hartlepool to York, one with my 2 kids ands their gran. Faultless out and back, plenty of room (well done grand central(x3), northern and TPE) and reasonable fares.

I still love train travel but now fly to Devon when I can and mainly enjoy rail in europe.

 

[Nigel Gresley]

We even found that if we propped the WC door open and opened the window we could hear the Class 218 Loco.

We returned to Lubeck stopping off at Ahresnburg? and Bad Oldselo? Excuse my spelling! This gave us a chance to see what the local services were like and again they had far more capacity than ours as well as comfort in the coaches. The train was formed of a 218 loco and push pull stock.

Two years ago I was lucky to be working 3 days a week in Hamburg. I would often use the Hamburg after 9am day ticket (only 5 Euro) to do some evening trips on the local services to Ahrensberg just to enjoy the superb roar of the diesel hydraulic 218. I always sat in the compartment next to the loco with the window down - the local services used the N-coaches (ex Silberlinge). It reminded me of the Westerns and Warships which I sorely miss.

Sadly, since 1 month ago, the line to Lubeck is now electrified. Most of the 218s have been transferred down south.


The DB's statistics for January have been ruined by the deep freeze which has disrupted many services this week.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,600190,00.html

 

[jopsuk]

Two years ago I was lucky to be working 3 days a week in Hamburg. I would often use the Hamburg after 9am day ticket (only 5 Euro) to do some evening trips on the local services to Ahrensberg just to enjoy the superb roar of the diesel hydraulic 218. I always sat in the compartment next to the loco with the window down - the local services used the N-coaches (ex Silberlinge). It reminded me of the Westerns and Warships which I sorely miss.

Sadly, since 1 month ago, the line to Lubeck is now electrified. Most of the 218s have been transferred down south.


The DB's statistics for January have been ruined by the deep freeze which has disrupted many services this week.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,600190,00.html

Ah, irony is a frozen ICE... now that's properly cold.

 

[Nigel Gresley]

Ah, irony is a frozen ICE... now that's properly cold.

I prefer to think of the hot days last summer. Several times I was pleasantly surprised when one of the train personal walked through the train strapped with a coolbox (like they used to in the cinema) selling a selection of sundaes, cornets etc. Now that's a service I haven't experienced elsewhere.. the ICE cream man.

 

[D841]

Two years ago I was lucky to be working 3 days a week in Hamburg. I would often use the Hamburg after 9am day ticket (only 5 Euro) to do some evening trips on the local services to Ahrensberg just to enjoy the superb roar of the diesel hydraulic 218. I always sat in the compartment next to the loco with the window down - the local services used the N-coaches (ex Silberlinge). It reminded me of the Westerns and Warships which I sorely miss.

I lived in Hamburg for 6 years, what seems a lifetime ago now. The Copenhagen trains were 221s, then later double-headed 220s, the locals out to Bad Oldesloe and Luebeck were mostly 220s (sometimes in the middle of the train), as were the Cuxhaven services. The 218s were also in abundance. especially on services north out of Altona. There were a lot of diesel-hydraulic units around too.

There's still a lot of variety to be seen there now, but it's not the same. Last week, I travelled from Berlin to Hamburg an a 605 class diesel ICE. I seem to recall that these units have similar motors to the Voyagers, but they're a lot noisier to ride in. In Hamburg Hbf, there were Metronom electrics, and a DSB ICE3, at Altona (in the shed sidings) a Nordost Bahn (NOB) electric and 2 SBB Cargo electrics, as well as all the DB stuff. So Hamburg is still an interesting place for the enthusiast, in terms of variety, but it's no longer the diesel-hydraulic heaven it was when I lived there.

 

[j0hn0]

My only recent journey is from Frankfurt airport to Cologne on the new high speed line. I sat behind the driver and it was freakin amazing. To see the gradients and curves and tunnels up front and at speed was incredible.

I took my TomTom with me and the top speed was 199mph!!

Commuting experiences I had were from years ago and so wouldn't apply now.

These days I commute every day from Haarlem to Amsterdam and there are 7 trains every hour. However, these are the dirtiest, stinkiest double deckers ever. There are many days when 2 trains are cancelled and everyone has to squeeze onto the other ones and trust me, every train is full anyway.

Work pays for my commute but I pay an extra 30 euros a month to go first class and all that means is that you're guaranteed a seat without being subjected to all the viruses I used to get when in standard class.

The dutch network is creaking with all these heavy trains crashing over them, yet HSL Zuid has been complete for TWO years still with no opening date.
I'd take the German over the Dutch any day

 

[Zamracene749]

Hi john0, i'm booked onto IC147 to Germany next month- the suggested connection from centraal is 12:57 IC1545 changing at Hilversum.
Ain't been to Amsterdam for while so not sure about current reliability.

This only gives 5 mins between trains- is this pushing it a bit? Was considering catching the earlier stopper and hanging around Amersfoort for 30 mins or so?

 

[j0hn0]

Hey

5 minutes is ample in Holland, Trains are almost always on time leaving Am'dam centraal.

I guess you're going on the IC towards Berlin? This does go from Centraal so I'm not sure why the connection would say to change there unless it starts at Amsterdam Zuid. ns highspeed should give better answers

 

[Zamracene749]

Cheers mate. Tis the Berlin service but this one starts at Schipol so only serves Amsterdam Zuid. Will catch the later connection, gives me time for an extra glass of excellent Dutch lager

Hey

5 minutes is ample in Holland, Trains are almost always on time leaving Am'dam centraal.

I guess you're going on the IC towards Berlin? This does go from Centraal so I'm not sure why the connection would say to change there unless it starts at Amsterdam Zuid. ns highspeed should give better answers

 

[j0hn0]

Cheers mate. Tis the Berlin service but this one starts at Schipol so only serves Amsterdam Zuid. Will catch the later connection, gives me time for an extra glass of excellent Dutch lager

I will always agree with that!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I think Holland are the ones to be envious of. As far as I could tell, they were on time to the second. Everyone could learn plenty from them. I would probably say that Germany is very similar to ourselves in terms of the service provided. The only things they have that are genuinely better are the high speed lines and the stations generally seem to be very impressive.

 

[gordonthemoron]

trouble with NS is a lot of their trains are rather tatty, mind so are some of the RB in Germany

 

[gordonthemoron]

This is getting ridiculous. It is quite normal for trains I see coming and going from Munich Hbf to have two locos, either both at the front or front and rear. However, this morning the sleeper from Warsaw (7 coaches) had two locos at the front and one at the back

 

[broodje]

It is not very uncommon to send locos around the country via passenger trains. this also happens in the Netherlands (although we do not have many passenger locos anymore).

 

[Shinkensgone]

These units are similar to Pacers except not made from Bus Parts. They had three doors on each side and a small first class section.
We then got on the Munich train which was a Double Decker Push-Pull set with a german loco on the back.
D

Double Decker = buses or chocolate bar

 

[shinkansen09]

Listen Ken ( ShinKensgone ), he`s already stated it`s not made from bus parts.....SO...it must be a chocolate bar ! or with regards to Pacers (which were chewy mints) any type of confectionery
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On a more serious note.....ICE trainsets with dodgy wheelsets would imply the German railways are not better than ours :roll: