Germans Enforcing Tickets

[TheEdge]

I've just returned from a weekend away in Hamburg and myself and my girlfriend made extensive use of the S-Bahn and U-Bahn to get around the city and to and from the airport. Being well behaved people we obviously purchased tickets which over the 3 days came to about €30.

But then something struck us. There were no barriers anywhere. Not at Hamburg Hbf, either for the mainline, S or U-Bahn and none at any of the stations we used or went through and we saw nothing in the way of revenue staff of any sort. It struck us we needed have spent a penny (or cent) on tickets. Yet everyone seemed to buy tickets and had tickets and ticket machines always had queues. Even the types in the UK we expect to fare-dodge were there buying their tickets.

How on earth do the Germans do it? Is it just stereotypical Germans following the rules or do DB (or the various Transport Execs) hold regular ticket stings with vicious penalties?

 

[CC 72100]

I do remember seeing a french news article recently saying how the Germans are generally 'respectful' with regards to buying tickets etc. , as were Londoners. However, Paris, was mentioned as 'ticket evasion champion'. The interesting thing being, that both Berlin and London have higher fares than the latter...

 

[317666]

When I was in Berlin in May, there were no ticket barriers to be seen. The S-Bahn had frequent undercover inspections, with someone usually being caught before long. On regional trains within the BVG zones, the guard often came round doing a ticket check. On the U-Bahn there was nothing, although fares are very cheap in Berlin and from my experience the U-Bahn was much more reliable than the S-Bahn, so it's possible that people pay up on that.

 

[ainsworth74]

I seem to recall that the Germans have some hefty spot penalties if you don't have a ticket.

 

[scarby]

As far as I know, yes, the whole system relies on spot penalty fares in the region of EUR 50-60.

When I was once on a tram in Nuremburg, like the OP I was a good boy and bought a ticket. After a couple of stops two "passengers" in plain clothes got up and revealed themselves to be ticket inspectors.

I'm not sure of any of the legal aspects but I believe the spot fare procedure is pretty much zero tolerance - no ticket, you pay up the cash.

 

[TheEdge]

The On The Spot big fines makes sense. I suspected there was a big Teutonic stick behind the system somewhere.

 

[Oscar]

The penalty ("erhöhtes Beförderungsentgelt" - increased charge for carriage) is 40 € for first offenders, increases dramatically for a second and third offence and, after several offences, offenders are brought before a court and one option is a short prison sentence. The last German fare evasion statistics I saw showed that the national average of passengers travelling without a ticket was around 3%, or around 6% for Berlin.

 

[yorkie]

The penalty ("erhöhtes Beförderungsentgelt" - increased charge for carriage) is 40 € for first offenders, increases dramatically for a second and third offence and, after several offences, offenders are brought before a court ....

Far more lenient than Northern Rail's revenue department then!

 

[motorman]

The U Bahn in Vienna adopts a similar system. We could have easily travelled from Westbahnhof to Meidling. I still have the ticket and some unused ones bought at the local tabac.

 

[SF-02]

They don't mess about with punishing people so there's a strong deterrent factor. The inspectors I saw couldn't be messed with and police I saw at stations weren't backwards in coming forwards. Saw them arrest a couple of people and you wouldn't mess with them.

That bit about London being honest made me laugh. Not in areas with DOO I know well it isn't. That's because there are few barriers and pretty much no deterrents.

 

[Gordon]

I'm not sure of any of the legal aspects but I believe the spot fare procedure is pretty much zero tolerance - no ticket, you pay up the cash.

Local/federal/national laws cover this type of activity.

The Swiss operate a similar system. I've been inwardly amused quite a few times by the quality of the 'disguise' of Swiss plain clothes inspectors.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

As far as I know, yes, the whole system relies on spot penalty fares in the region of EUR 50-60.

When I was once on a tram in Nuremburg, like the OP I was a good boy and bought a ticket. After a couple of stops two "passengers" in plain clothes got up and revealed themselves to be ticket inspectors.

I'm not sure of any of the legal aspects but I believe the spot fare procedure is pretty much zero tolerance - no ticket, you pay up the cash.

Yes alot over countries have plan clothes passengers who are ticket inspectors.

 

[sarahj]

Still remember the bag ladies in Munich on the U-bahn. Once the doors closed, the passes came out. They even did someone who had a ticket, but not stuffed it into the E machine. (I had a monthly pass).

 

[Bald Rick]

Had a mate who got nabbed without a ticket on the Munich S-Bahn (at 0400 on a Sunday morning); he didn't have means to pay and was in an exceptional state of refreshment, so had a pretty rough time. He also has the sense of direction of a compass in a magnet factory, so was on the wrong line going the wrong way.

It is zero tolerance though, no ticket or incorrect ticket, and you have to pay. There's not many staffed ticket offices over there either.

 

[30907]

Schwarzfahren (travelling "black" as in "black economy) is a widespread problem in Germany (and other countries like Switzerland which have similar penalty systems), and the penalties are certainly enforced - not least on many Regional trains where they now insist on you buying before you board, instead of from the conductor as you "always could." There are plenty of complaints about this on German forums!

 

[WestCoast]

Schwarzfahren (travelling "black" as in "black economy) is a widespread problem in Germany (and other countries like Switzerland which have similar penalty systems), and the penalties are certainly enforced - not least on many Regional trains where they now insist on you buying before you board, instead of from the conductor as you "always could." There are plenty of complaints about this on German forums!

I think the exact policy about ticketing on RE and RB services (i.e. not S-Bahn or IC/ICE) depends on the region, but I've noticed that when DB Regio is the operator, a buy-before-you-board policy is usually enforced (there is exceptions). Some of the private operators however have TVMs onboard and Metronom, for example, which runs longer distance Regional Express services in Northern Germany sells tickets onboard subject to a small supplement. Some of the private operators in the NRW area even promote the fact that you can buy on board in their literature (you have to buy from the TVM where available shortly after boarding though).

You can buy tickets on InterCity and ICE services in cash only.

 

[tripleseis]

I do remember seeing a french news article recently saying how the Germans are generally 'respectful' with regards to buying tickets etc. , as were Londoners. However, Paris, was mentioned as 'ticket evasion champion'. The interesting thing being, that both Berlin and London have higher fares than the latter...

It was particularly rife on one trip to Paris a few years ago. Witnessed two people go through the barriers on one ticket and saw someone pry open the exit only gates and walk through. I even had one person quickly squeeze through the ticket barrier behind me after I had passed through.

Prague was like Germany. No barriers but they had regular ticket inspectors stopping people. We got checked practically every day, sometimes in exactly the same spot!

 

[thenorthern]

A couple of years ago I was in Paris and the number of people who jumped over the ticket barriers was notorious. A couple of weeks later I was in Munich and they had no barriers but people still bought tickets.

I always find the Germans and the British like to follow their own rules but the French don't as much.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Similar here in Helsinki. No ticket barries, though if you get on a bus then the driver has to see your ticket, which generally means showing it to the electronic reader and getting a yellow or green light.

Ticket inspectors either gather at certain busy entrances, typically to the metro, or get on and off busses/trams/metro as required. Plain clothes inspectors are also often used. I've never seen inspectors on the commuter trains nor the ferry (Helsinki-Suomenlinna), but on the former there are dedicated carriages for purchasing tickets.

The fine is 80eur and don't even bother trying to appeal. There have been cases of inspectors being over-zealous, but even then an appeal will most likely fail. At least I've never heard of someone succeeding, but then again the attitude here tends to be that the official is right by default. However, Finns tend to be quite honest and the ticketing system within Helsinki and the two commuter cities Espoo and Vantaa* is very easy and cheap with electronic ticketing which can be used for a period of time or loaded with money as you see fit.

t.

Ian

*actually the ticketing extends outside of the main captial region as well to areas such as Kirkonummi, Kerava and Sipoo whcih works really well on the trains but not so well on the busses. Further outside again some cities (eg: Porvoo) have special deals that if you buy a season ticket then you can get the capital region tickets at a discount IIRC.

Furthermore, if you use public transport then you can claim tax back at the end of the year which is both an incentive to use public transport and pay for it.

 

[gordonthemoron]

alegedly, a substantial proportion of inmates in Berlin prisons are serving sentences for failing to pay their public transport fines

 

[Oscar]

Similar here in Helsinki. No ticket barries, though if you get on a bus then the driver has to see your ticket, which generally means showing it to the electronic reader and getting a yellow or green light.

Ticket inspectors either gather at certain busy entrances, typically to the metro, or get on and off busses/trams/metro as required. Plain clothes inspectors are also often used. I've never seen inspectors on the commuter trains nor the ferry (Helsinki-Suomenlinna), but on the former there are dedicated carriages for purchasing tickets.

The fine is 80eur and don't even bother trying to appeal. There have been cases of inspectors being over-zealous, but even then an appeal will most likely fail. At least I've never heard of someone succeeding, but then again the attitude here tends to be that the official is right by default. However, Finns tend to be quite honest and the ticketing system within Helsinki and the two commuter cities Espoo and Vantaa* is very easy and cheap with electronic ticketing which can be used for a period of time or loaded with money as you see fit.

t.

Ian

*actually the ticketing extends outside of the main captial region as well to areas such as Kirkonummi, Kerava and Sipoo whcih works really well on the trains but not so well on the busses. Further outside again some cities (eg: Porvoo) have special deals that if you buy a season ticket then you can get the capital region tickets at a discount IIRC.

Furthermore, if you use public transport then you can claim tax back at the end of the year which is both an incentive to use public transport and pay for it.

HKL (Helsinki) ticket inspectors always seem to travel around in large groups, similar to those on Manchester Metrolink, and usually give the impression of being very fierce.

 

[Flamingo]

I know a chap who used to be a TM, and is now a TE on German railways, and he said it's zero tolerance, and if they need to delay a train to deal with somebody, they do and that'saccepted. That was the bit I found most surprising!

 

[87015]

Most of the Paris suburban stations are indeed fully barriered but ignored by a significant minority through various (sometimes entertaining) means. However when they do their barrier grips it's pretty fearsome with big guys, guns and dogs aplenty.

Much of suburban Paris is no paradise, I wouldn't fancy that having one man on the barrier would make a bit of difference, or certainly that job myself...

 

[jon0844]

I know a chap who used to be a TM, and is now a TE on German railways, and he said it's zero tolerance, and if they need to delay a train to deal with somebody, they do and that'saccepted. That was the bit I found most surprising!

As I've said before, it might cause problems for a while - but soon the message gets through and trains are no longer delayed because people comply.

Our attitude to fare evasion, and indeed many crimes, seems to be far too soft here and that's one reason I believe we have a mindset that you can quite happily break the law or be anti social because the chances of being caught are so slim, and the chances of being seriously punished are even slimmer.

 

[northwichcat]

From my experience of rail travel in Germany ticket inspections occur about 40% of the time on Regio services and very infrequently on S-Bahn, U-Bahn and tram systems. I've never been asked for a ticket on any U-Bahn system or tram system I've used and for S-Bahn I made a number of journeys on the Berlin and Munich systems without being asked for a ticket but was asked for tickets on the Cologne S-Bahn by some inspectors who appeared to be businessmen at first until they got out ID badges.

 

[Oscar]

From my experience of rail travel in Germany ticket inspections occur about 40% of the time on Regio services and very infrequently on S-Bahn, U-Bahn and tram systems. I've never been asked for a ticket on any U-Bahn system or tram system I've used and for S-Bahn I made a number of journeys on the Berlin and Munich systems without being asked for a ticket but was asked for tickets on the Cologne S-Bahn by some inspectors who appeared to be businessmen at first until they got out ID badges.

Normally RB trains operated by DB Regio only have one member of staff - the driver - and tickets are checked by roving inspectors. RE trains operated by DB normally have a conductor, but the trains are often very long and have frequent stops, so the conductor doesn't check tickets very frequently. The conductor does have a facility to sell tickets on these trains, but will only do so if all ticket buying facilities are out of order at the passenger's origin station. U-Bahn and tram systems are operated by the local city transport company, rather than DB, so each local company can decide how and when to carry out ticket checks.

 

[talltim]

There don't seem to be ticket checks on the Oslo metro. We spent four days there travelling into the centre each day and it was only on the last day we realised we had been buying the wrong type of ticket. I'm still not sure what we were buying, possibly a senior ticket.

 

[stuartmoss]

I once got caught on the S-Bahn in Berlin with a group of friends, we had literally no cash that the machines would accept, so we decided to risk it for a couple of stops, where we knew we could get off and use a cash machine at the station. We got caught by an undercover inspector, who told us to get off the train and buy a ticket, which we did. The station we had to get off at was the one where we knew there was a cash machine anyway. Luckily we didn't get fined.

 

[ModernRailways]

When I was in Paris in the Summer, at Gare Du Nord to go to Line 2 at La Chapelle you have to go via the RER or the street. We chose to go via the RER but what we didn't realise is there are more ticket barriers to get to the Metro which meant our tickets weren't technically valid as we had used them to get into the RER. There was a very well spoken gent who came over and spoke very good English. He told us we had to climb over the barriers. Thankfully, there was a wide gate that had a luggage slider at the side so we walked through that, the amount of people who followed us through was unbelievable. Almost everyone did the same as us as their tickets weren't accepted. Coming back through the other way our tickets were accepted at the Metro barriers, but we forgot we had to go back through the RER barriers. I managed to follow someone through, my sister also did. To our surprise there was a group of police with guns on the other side, after we quickly explained I think they understood what happened. My Mam was still stuck and was too scared to run through too, so one of the officers ended up going up to the barrier and kept it held open after someone went through. No station staff which would have been able to open the barriers which I found odd. We saw no RATP staff other than in the ticket offices and they seemed to like to hide in the ticket office all the time. One of them was helpful and came out and helped us buy a ticket from the vending machine but other than that all the staff seemed rude - from those that we saw.

In Cologne it was totally different, there was staff able to assist and the general feeling was a much more British kind of thinking. They all seemed friendly, like they enjoyed their job. We had two plain clothes ticket checks, one was a big guy, the other looked like she was 18, but works out a lot.

I plan on going to Berlin early next year, so hopefully the Berliners are as nice as those from Cologne and not the Parisians!

 

[mikeolsen]

We had similar experience on our recent trip to Eurostar in Paris - we changed at Lille - the local train had no barriers and there was no ticket control on the train as well. They must do some random check though and the fines must be sky high as well to deter any one from taking a free ride.