I would say that inner suburban and other shorter distance services such as the Lymington branch would be classed as Regional Bahn (RB) under the German system (or even S-Bahn in the case of London suburban routes), outer suburban, semi-fast and medium distance services such as Waterloo to Alton, Basingstoke, Portsmouth and Reading would be Regional Express (RE) and the Waterloo to Exeter and Weymouth could be classed as RE or InterCity: I think it's difficult to say which of those categories they would best fit into, particularly in the case of the Waterloo-Exeters which are fast Clapham Jn-Woking and Woking-Basingstoke but then call at most stations for the rest of the journey. I think they would perhaps best fit DB's now defunct InterRegio train category, which was a lesser type of long distance train than the IC in the 1990s and early 2000s (supplement-free and calling at more stations than the IC or EuroCity but fewer stations than the RB or RE).
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Germany: €9 a month for 3 months from June 1
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Fragezeichnen
Member
I would agree with that.
Waterloo - Exeter would perhaps be the little-used IRE(Inter-Regio-Express). I think IC would be a step too far - in Germany InterCity are run commercially, unsubsidised, and usually have on-board catering.
Waterloo - Exeter would perhaps be the little-used IRE(Inter-Regio-Express). I think IC would be a step too far - in Germany InterCity are run commercially, unsubsidised, and usually have on-board catering.
However, I suspect that of the German train classification system had been in use here, the train service patterns would have grown up differently to that now, and there would be IC trains doing London-Southampton-Bournemouth-Weymouth, and even possibly on the Waterloo-Exeter line too.
Possibly, though historically the xx47/46 Bournemouth semifasts would also have been IC (not IR), given that they were formed of identical stock. Perhaps the categories IC and ICX (similar to Austrian and Czech use) would have been handy? And would an ICX change to IC at Bournemouth if calling all stations to Weymouth?
In Germany the RE/RB distinction is blurred anyway, and trains can change category en route, but AFAIK RE implies that some stops on part or all of a route are omitted and served by a RB.
A Waterloo-Basingstoke, semifast to Woking, would probably be an RE throughout. Anything out of Waterloo on the Main Slows would be RB or perhaps S - theoretically right through to eg Portsmouth, Mannheim has some incredibly long S routes!
It's somewhat academic, as the Germanic system (and others) assume different sorts of funding and differential fare levels, neither of which apply here.
johncrossley
Established Member
If the reason for your question is because you are wondering whether a particular line will be IC/ICE/EC only, so you can't use the ticket, then I don't think such a line exists. In all or almost all cases, you can find an alternative regional train.
Are there any exceptions?
43096
On Moderation
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There are places (Stuttgart - Horb - Rottweil - Singen is one, I think), where the regional service has been upgraded with DB Fernverkehr running the service using IC stock (in the Stuttgart-Singen case it's actually IC2 double deck stock that is very similar to Regio stock). However, in this situation regional tickets are allowed on the services - there's usually a note to this effect on departure boards and they may even issue a duplicate Regio train number.
Only some of the high-speed routes - and even they have alternatives, but somewhat circuitous in some cases.
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U-Bahnfreund
Member
These routes are where IC/ICE/EC/RJ are considered as regional services as well: https://www.bahn.de/service/individuelle-reise/bahn_und_fahrrad/nahverkehrsfreigabe in all cases they are duplicated in journey planners. As an example, IC 2229 (Dortmund – Frankfurt) is duplicatedly shown as RE 52229 (RE34 Letmathe - Dillenburg) in journey planners, so that when you search a connection "only with regional trains", it still shows up. The 9€-Ticket will also be accepted on those trains. EDIT: No it won't, accept in Baden-Württemberg (as of 25 May)
The only station that's only served by high-speed trains is Limburg Süd on the Cologne-Frankfurt HS line, but there's a regular Limburg (Lahn) station in the city centre. Apart from that, as 30907 said, some stretches of the high-speed lines are IC/ICE-only (although e.g. the Nuremburg-Munich line has high-speed RE trains as well), but there's always a parallel legacy line.
Here are the route maps for each state: DB website (although for some areas there are better ones: Northern Hesse, Southern Hesse (Frankfurt area), Rhineland-Palatinate/Saarland, Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt)
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Fragezeichnen
Member
At 20p per day for unlimited travel in the entire country, it's far beyond "good value" and better described as "effectively free public transport".
(at one point it was suggested that it should actually be free as the cost of setting up sales of the special tickets would consume most of the revenue).
Even within pro-rail circles in Germany the idea is controversial, as some people fear implementing it without any corresponding capacity improvements will lead to chaos, particularly on routes to the coast which are a nightmare even in normal summers, thus making the lives of the very commuters it was meant to help miserable.
(The idea came about as a quid pro quo for increasing tax breaks on car commuting costs).
Here we just get carte blanche tax cuts on petrol and never ending increases in train fares. You couldn't make it up !
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The €9 ticket scheme will cost the federal government 2.5 billion euros (to compensate lost revenue in the regional transport bodies, for just 3 months).
That's the kind of sum our Treasury can't find down the back of its sofa now there are funding demands in all directions (and 10% inflation).
There also isn't the same green pro-public transport demand here as there is in DE/AT (where the Greens are in government coalitions).
Once GBR is established we may get more of a coordinated rail growth strategy.
That's the kind of sum our Treasury can't find down the back of its sofa now there are funding demands in all directions (and 10% inflation).
There also isn't the same green pro-public transport demand here as there is in DE/AT (where the Greens are in government coalitions).
Once GBR is established we may get more of a coordinated rail growth strategy.
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Fragezeichnen
Member
Not quite, the predicted figure is 2.5 billion(confusingly for english speakers, in german this is 2,5 Milliarden). But considering the military is getting a one-off 100 billion, it's a bargain.
Always jam tomorrow .....
johncrossley
Established Member
Better to travel outside the UK anyway. Even without special deals it is better and cheaper.
Feuillesmortes
Member
I love traveling in the UK, but we have a government and treasury that are only interested in throwing money at motorists.
johncrossley
Established Member
Would you think that if you didn't live there? There's plenty more trains to go on and places to see outside the UK.
Don't get me wrong, I've been to several European countries and loved them, but one ought to have the freedom to travel around ones home for a reasonable price.
43096
On Moderation
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Get a car...
No. I don't drive and have no intention in doing so.
Certainly less reasonably priced with the current cost of petrol (though that's no bad thing for the environment and public transport farebox!).
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The paradox is that motorists will be paying more in tax for higher-priced fuel (increased VAT etc) than any benefit from "frozen" fuel duty.
Spoorslag '70
Member
The German government also usually only throw money (and quite a lot of it!) at motoring - the entire 9€-ticket thing was (in my eyes) just a move to get the massive subsidies on fuel for private cars through the greens. It's been so ill-flawed and unplanned from the start that I can not take it serious. Instead of distributing de-facto free tickets, one could have just made all public transport free for a few months - and possibly even without reimbursing existing season ticket holders. Would have saved loads of money and would actually be something to get people into public transport and not just cheapen it for those poor souls ("Alte, Arbeitslose, Asoziale") who use it already...
As things stand, nobody knows for sure on what it is valid (there are some independant bus companies in some parts of Germany which are not running on a public contract and have their own tariff - are they included? What about cross-border sections, where some domestic tickets are valid?), how to buy it (probably online, at TVMs and at ticket offices of some operators) nor how existing season ticket holders (especially those, who don't pay directly to the operator or PTE) get their money back. Two weeks to go, still just as many unanswered questions as two months ago.
Would be a shame if it did not pass the Bundesrat next week, wouldn't it?
Better? Try commuting in the Ruhrgebiet by public transport and then tell me that your proposition "All public transport everywhere outside of the UK is better than all public transport inside the UK" still holds without laughing. I am very certain that's impossible.
Cheaper? Perhaps, but we do pay it back in rather high taxes - and especially my generation will have to pay the stuff our current government throws out at the moment.
johncrossley
Established Member
People can use the Interrail One Country Passes in other countries but not their own, so that makes the UK more expensive for people living in the UK even before considering what the usual fares are. Germany has integrated transport so that buses go to the railway station and you can use the same EinzelTicket or 4erTicket when going from a bus to a train to another bus. That MAY only be possible with a day ticket or longer in the UK and often the buses don't stop at the railway station.
LSWR Cavalier
Established Member
One might be well-advised to avoid travelling in Germany for the duration, the 9€ ticket is expected to be very popular. Who knows, reports of chaos might in turn put people off traveling. Three months seems a long time, but it is not really. One feels sorry for regular travelers who may be inconvenienced.
There is still talk about making travel free, that would save banking millions of 9€ cash payments, but one would still be required to 'buy' a free ticket. What would a Schaffnerin/Conductress do if she encountered people without free tickets? Issue a 60€ penalty? Or 'sell' a free ticket?
..
My prediction: chaos.
There is still talk about making travel free, that would save banking millions of 9€ cash payments, but one would still be required to 'buy' a free ticket. What would a Schaffnerin/Conductress do if she encountered people without free tickets? Issue a 60€ penalty? Or 'sell' a free ticket?
..
My prediction: chaos.
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Feuillesmortes
Member
Duisburg, Essen, Bochum, Dortmund have good transport systems. I would compare them to those of Liverpool, Bolton, Manchester which I would say are inferior.
U-Bahnfreund
Member
Maybe interesting for some: the 9€ ticket will be valid on the Harz steam narrow-gauge railways (except the route between Drei Annen Hohne and Brocken mountain), on the Lößnitzgrundbahn and Weißeritztalbahn railways near Dresden, Zittau narrow-gauge railways, possibly on other Saxon steam narrow-gauge railways as well, and on the Bäderbahn Molli railway on the Baltic Sea.
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Are regional tickets normally valid on these railways?
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