Getting people back on trains as lockdown eases.

[greyman42]

In fairness, there are still alot of folk who (rightly or wrongly) will be apprehensive about rail travel for a while yet and (maybe illogically) will find such messaging reassuring.

What are they apprehensive about and what do they need reassuring about?

 

[nlogax]

It amazes me, I read all of these highfalutin ideals from railway management about how they're supposed to be making rail travel easier and more accessible to entice people on the trains, yet when you actually need to use them, they're still worse than before the pandemic.

I've reluctantly embraced the flexibility of off-peak returns on Avanti. 160 quid a pop won't break the bank but it's not ideal when I think of the decent AP availability before All This started.

 

[Bikeman78]

What are they apprehensive about and what do they need reassuring about?

I think that persuading people that trains are safe whilst still mandating masks is going to be a tough sell. I don't think they are actually as big a problem as people think. Over the years I've been close to lots of people coughing and sneezing on trains and yet I rarely catch their diseases. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[tommy2215]

For me it’s the uncertainty that seats will be available on the day and time that I need to travel that is putting me off going back onto rail for my holidays.

Until a few years ago, I always used to get the best prices by booking cheaper non refundable rates in hotels, and booking AP rail tickets as cheaply as I could as soon as they became available. Now because of commitments of caring for elderly relatives, who are not as well as they were, I prefer the security gained by booking flexible hotel rooms which can be cancelled easily if necessary. The same goes for my rail travel. Now that I have a Senior Railcard Off Peak tickets are at a more reasonable rate and I don’t purchase my tickets until the day of travel or just a few days before when I know the holiday is definitely going ahead.

I’ve got a hotel booking for later this year down in Cornwall. With XC ridiculously high fares from Nottingham to Penzance I will be splitting my tickets at Cheltenham, Bristol and Tiverton Parkway. What I would normally do is buy these tickets from Nottingham Station the day before and reserve the same seat all the way from Derby to Penzance. What I don’t want to happen is turn up at Nottingham to be told that I can’t travel because there are no seats available on XC trains on the day that I need to travel. The uncertainty just makes me feel like cancelling my hotel booking in Penzance and booking somewhere else closer to home at a distance that I don’t mind driving In one day.

You could message the XC social media team a week or two in advance and ask them to reserve a seat for you. Though this would mean buying your tickets a week or two in advance also.

 

[greyman42]

I think that persuading people that trains are safe whilst still mandating masks is going to be a tough sell. I don't think they are actually as big a problem as people think. Over the years I've been close to lots of people coughing and sneezing on trains and yet I rarely catch their diseases. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Maybe your just normal.

 

[Ianno87]

What are they apprehensive about and what do they need reassuring about?

People have had over a year of being conditioned to "minimise contact", "keep distance" etc. Most people have not experienced anything "crowded" for a very long time, and some people will find that a difficult psychological barrier (as many people will associated public transport with being crowded from pre-Covid times). Even I'll feel a bit strange on my first packed train some time in the future.

Don't dismiss how uneasy some people will genuinely feel about this (even if that feeling is unfounded)

 

[MikeWM]

It amazes me, I read all of these highfalutin ideals from railway management about how they're supposed to be making rail travel easier and more accessible to entice people on the trains, yet when you actually need to use them, they're still worse than before the pandemic.

Agreed.

For example, I'm currently thinking of doing an East Midlands Rover at the start of June to make up for the one I had to abandon on March 23rd last year.

So I'm at the stage where I'm ok with claiming exemption from mask-wearing, I've got used to everyone else wearing the things (I'd rather they didn't, but I'm past the stage of being actively repulsed by it), and I can pretty much filter out all the irritating announcements and notices.

But now, of course, there is a new issue - LNER's 'compulsory reservations'. There goes much of the flexibility of using a Rover. And what am I supposed to do for example if I want to travel from somewhere after the ticket office is closed? I see Retford apparently closes at 6pm, for example.

This may be fairly minor in the scheme of things, but it impacts my ability to do something that previously I would have done perfectly easily (and did, regularly).

(I also appreciate that people using Rovers isn't going to be high on anyone's priority list right now, but the railways really aren't doing themselves any favours by throwing new obstacles in the way of using them for leisure travel.)

 

[Ianno87]

Agreed.



But now, of course, there is a new issue - LNER's 'compulsory reservations'. There goes much of the flexibility of using a Rover. And what am I supposed to do for example if I want to travel from somewhere after the ticket office is closed? I see Retford apparently closes at 6pm, for example.

1) Go to lner.co.uk/reserve on your phone (assuming it has an Internet browser). I believe you can make at least 2 different reservations on the same e-mail address if you want some flexibility.

2) Go to the ticket office before 6pm

3) Go to any other ticket office earlier in the day. You can't have *that* many choices of routes after 6pm from Retford that you won't have some idea of earlier in the day... You could even "over book" the seat (e.g. reserve to Peterborough even if you end up getting off at Grantham)

4) I'm sure if push came to shove, a quiet word with the Train Manager on arrival would do the trick "I want to travel, but can't make a reservation from the ticket office as it's closed"

Plenty of options really.

 

[greyman42]

People have had over a year of being conditioned to "minimise contact", "keep distance" etc. Most people have not experienced anything "crowded" for a very long time, and some people will find that a difficult psychological barrier (as many people will associated public transport with being crowded from pre-Covid times). Even I'll feel a bit strange on my first packed train some time in the future.

Don't dismiss how uneasy some people will genuinely feel about this (even if that feeling is unfounded)

Well i have not been conditioned to anything. I think most of these people just don't fancy going back to work and earning a living and see covid as an excuse to prolong not having to do so.

 

[Ianno87]

Well i have not been conditioned to anything. I think most of these people just don't fancy going back to work and earning a living and see covid as an excuse to prolong not having to do so.

Some people, yes. But I doubt as many as you think.

For example, I still see some parents at playgrounds insisting that their (exempt) kids play wearing face masks.

 

[MikeWM]

1) Go to lner.co.uk/reserve on your phone (assuming it has an Internet browser). I believe you can make at least 2 different reservations on the same e-mail address if you want some flexibility.

2) Go to the ticket office before 6pm

3) Go to any other ticket office earlier in the day. You can't have *that* many choices of routes after 6pm from Retford that you won't have some idea of earlier in the day... You could even "over book" the seat (e.g. reserve to Peterborough even if you end up getting off at Grantham)

4) I'm sure if push came to shove, a quiet word with the Train Manager on arrival would do the trick "I want to travel, but can't make a reservation from the ticket office as it's closed"

Plenty of options really.

All of which are more complex - and less convenient - than before, when I could just get on the train without having to do any of those things.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Well i have not been conditioned to anything. I think most of these people just don't fancy going back to work and earning a living and see covid as an excuse to prolong not having to do so.

I mean most people are working and earning a living. Working from home is still working no matter how many times some people try to claim it isn't - just because I am not getting on a train to the office every day does not mean I am not and have not been working (quite the opposite actually, I've been working much harder over the last year as I've gained more responsibility at my job). And in terms of furlough, with retail and hospitality opening up again now, the number of people on that is going to be much much lower than what it was at its peak and it will come down further in May when more places reopen.

 

[Ianno87]

All of which are more complex - and less convenient - than before, when I could just get on the train without having to do any of those things.

A multiple day trip hopping all around the East Mislands by train is easy, but getting your phone out for 5 minutes at some point in the day (or calling by a ticket office) is "complex". Righto.

 

[westv]

Working from home is still working no matter how many times people on here try to claim it isn't - just because I am not getting on a train to the office every day does not mean I am not and have not been working...

Yes it is a bit tedious, isn't it.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes it is a bit tedious, isn't it.

Seconded (or thirded?). And some people can actually be more effective (or be working harder or more strssed) partially or wholly working from home too.

 

[nlogax]

Well i have not been conditioned to anything. I think most of these people just don't fancy going back to work and earning a living and see covid as an excuse to prolong not having to do so.

I highly doubt that people on furlough want this to last for ever more, bleeding the country's finances dry. Maybe start giving people a bit more credit than that.

If you're talking about those working from home, many of us now work more / longer hours than before. What is it you think we're doing? Feet up and watching daytime telly?

 

[MikeWM]

A multiple day trip hopping all around the East Mislands by train is easy, but getting your phone out for 5 minutes at some point in the day (or calling by a ticket office) is "complex". Righto.

It is more complex than before, yes. It isn't an insurmountable problem, but I wasn't claiming it was. It is an unnecessary irritation, however.

To me at least this removes some of the attraction of a rover ticket, where sometimes you are planning ahead, but sometimes you just get on a train at a whim.

 

[ChrisC]

That's the thing really.

People have advanced bookings for hotels to arrange, that they have to try and marry up with multiple advanced bookings on trains, sometimes with different companies. I can see why people can't be bothered with it.

For Cornwall, I usually go via London anyway. It often doesn't work out as much more expensive than XC anyway.

I had already noticed that a Nottingham to Penzance via London ticket is not badly priced and it is something I would consider. The reason for travelling on XC, especially with the split at Tiverton Parkway, is that from there I would be getting an 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rover which I will also use for 6 days travel whilst there.

It’s the whole rigmarole of booking reservations, and the uncertainty that creates, that even beyond June might still be in place, that puts me off returning to long distance rail travel this summer.

 

[Ianno87]

I highly doubt that people on furlough want this to last for ever more, bleeding the country's finances dry. Maybe start giving people a bit more credit than that.

Whilst I'm sure furlough must've been a nice novelty at the start for those it applied to, if I'd been on furlough this whole time, I'd be going doolally by now.

I'd certainly be worried about my future job if that were the case - some people may not have jobs to go back to at the end of this. That can't be mentally very easy.

It is more complex than before, yes. It isn't an insurmountable problem, but I wasn't claiming it was. It is an unnecessary irritation, however.

To me at least this removes some of the attraction of a rover ticket, where sometimes you are planning ahead, but sometimes you just get on a train at a whim.

In fairness I don't disagree that it means Rovers require just that bit more pre-planning than before.

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed.

For example, I'm currently thinking of doing an East Midlands Rover at the start of June to make up for the one I had to abandon on March 23rd last year.

So I'm at the stage where I'm ok with claiming exemption from mask-wearing, I've got used to everyone else wearing the things (I'd rather they didn't, but I'm past the stage of being actively repulsed by it), and I can pretty much filter out all the irritating announcements and notices.

But now, of course, there is a new issue - LNER's 'compulsory reservations'. There goes much of the flexibility of using a Rover. And what am I supposed to do for example if I want to travel from somewhere after the ticket office is closed? I see Retford apparently closes at 6pm, for example.

This may be fairly minor in the scheme of things, but it impacts my ability to do something that previously I would have done perfectly easily (and did, regularly).

(I also appreciate that people using Rovers isn't going to be high on anyone's priority list right now, but the railways really aren't doing themselves any favours by throwing new obstacles in the way of using them for leisure travel.)

"obstacles" is exactly the word. The industry should be removing obstacles to encourage passengers to return.

 

[Ianno87]

"obstacles" is exactly the word. The industry should be removing obstacles to encourage passengers to return.

Even though we're in the world of folk dialing up Ubers on their phone without even thinking about it? Nobody thinks of that as an "obstacle" to getting a taxi.

 

[yorksrob]

I had already noticed that a Nottingham to Penzance via London ticket is not badly priced and it is something I would consider. The reason for travelling on XC, especially with the split at Tiverton Parkway, is that from there I would be getting an 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rover which I will also use for 6 days travel whilst there.

It’s the whole rigmarole of booking reservations, and the uncertainty that creates, that even beyond June might still be in place, that puts me off returning to long distance rail travel this summer.

Yes, I enjoy the Waterloo - Exeter route. I don't think you can reserve a seat, but once you've got one, no one can reserve it from underneath you !

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It amazes me, I read all of these highfalutin ideals from railway management about how they're supposed to be making rail travel easier and more accessible to entice people on the trains, yet when you actually need to use them, they're still worse than before the pandemic.

I'm trying to book a journey back from London from visiting the family in just over a months time:

ECML - enginering works - understandable they need to be done some time, yet are there any AP tickets available ? No, of course not.

WCML - no engineering works, yet no AP tickets either. Whatever happenned to the three months booking window.

EMR - They at least do have some AP but most are pricey - probably because none of the others are offering any AP tickets. Still probably the best for the timebeing.

It would just be nice to be able to plan ones journey and for it not to be a massive rigmarole for a change.

Advance tickets are no longer available at 12 weeks out because the stp services are now published 6 weeks out. The reason why this is because all of the covid base plan timetables and sudden changes means that publishing any earlier is literally impossible and will send planners who are already so overworked completely insane. The industry is trying to push the date further towards 12 weeks out but it will take a lot of time.

 

[yorksrob]

Even though we're in the world of folk dialing up Ubers on their phone without even thinking about it? Nobody thinks of that as an "obstacle" to getting a taxi.

Do those people have to dial up their ubers at some unspecified time in the future in order to obtain an acceptable price ?

 

[Ianno87]

Do those people have to dial up their ubers at some unspecified time in the future in order to obtain an acceptable price ?

Sometimes, yes. That's how Uber works with "surge pricing".

 

[paul1609]

I notice several people mentioning on the forum that services in their area are "almost back to normal" so, at 40% that must mean a lot of trains are at the other end of the scale and almost empty.

Ive not used public transport this year but I regularly drive past Southeastern car parks on both the SEML and Hastings lines, you are lucky if there are 25 cars in car parks with 100s of spaces. Id suggest theres very little recovery in London commuting.

 

[Ianno87]

Advance tickets are no longer available at 12 weeks out because the stp services are now published 6 weeks out. The reason why this is because all of the covid base plan timetables and sudden changes means that publishing any earlier is literally impossible and will send planners who are already so overworked completely insane. The industry is trying to push the date further towards 12 weeks out but it will take a lot of time.

Ironically, the current time is amazing for getting cheapo Advances close to the day of the race, with late finalisation of timetables. Got Cambridge-Manchester return for a reasonable £48 at 2 weeks' notice (out via LNER/Calder Valley, back via EMR/Nottingham/Ely)

 

[yorksrob]

Advance tickets are no longer available at 12 weeks out because the stp services are now published 6 weeks out. The reason why this is because all of the covid base plan timetables and sudden changes means that publishing any earlier is literally impossible and will send planners who are already so overworked completely insane. The industry is trying to push the date further towards 12 weeks out but it will take a lot of time.

My planned journey is in less than six weeks time, and yet still nada.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

My planned journey is in less than six weeks time, and yet still nada.

Kings Cross works and likely other major blocks which require significantly more work combined with already the increased pressure due to the covid timescales means some weeks may be late.

 

[philosopher]

My planned journey is in less than six weeks time, and yet still nada.

I have this issue too. I am planning to visit a friend in Dorset in six weeks, travelling from London with SWR and there are still no advance tickets available for weekends. I suspect I may end having to pay a full price ticket.