Getting people back on trains as lockdown eases.

[87015]

I commute on the train daily and have done throughout the pandemic.
Prior to covid id also take the tube for the final part of my journey.
I now refuse to use tfl services after they spent the best part of 6 months basically saying they didn't want any customers on the tube.
I now cycle the 15km daily instead of the tube, and when my bike was broke I walked instead.

If a private business tried to discourage customers the way tfl did then it would go bankrupt within weeks

TfL effectively did go bankrupt, and quickly. What followed was at Central Governments wishes.

 

[duncanp]

If a private business tried to discourage customers the way tfl did then it would go bankrupt within weeks

TfL would go bankrupt within weeks if the government didn't keep providing them financial support.

Even now, their website has a banner across the top of the home page saying Coronavirus - minimise travel, which isn't exactly encouraging people to use the system.

 

[Horizon22]

TfL would go bankrupt within weeks if the government didn't keep providing them financial support.

Even now, their website has a banner across the top of the home page saying Coronavirus - minimise travel, which isn't exactly encouraging people to use the system.

Indeed. I am somewhat surprised they keep the "please walk and cycle where you can" because TfL desperately needs any income it can get its hands on. Unless somehow they've made more money from people driving in the Congestion Charge Zone.

As to the original point, I know several TOCs are doing marketing campaigns; I saw Southeastern's online the other day which was a tad cringey but I guess got the point across. As for the number of trains, I think its 18,000 trains (obviously not 18,000 more trains). Modest increases in the timetable where the data suggests it. I think there will be a natural increase anyway with all the pent up demand over the next 1-2 months, but whether that is sustained long-term (the commuting issue) is another matter. Some places might get to genuine "full and standing" this summer (places like Cornwall and Devon coast).

 

[joncombe]

I think it was mentioned on another (previous?) thread but I certainly think offering extended railcard validity would be a good option. I renewed my Network Card early March 2020. I think I used it once, for a short journey. I haven't bothered to renew it this year.

 

[MikeWM]

The few times I have used the train during the pandemic, I have felt like I was an inconvenience to the railway, with announcements and notices about 'key workers' and 'essential travel' - even when these were not part of the legal restrictions in place at the time I was travelling. There are many similar stories on this forum. Then we have the one way systems, the 'can't sit there', 'don't stand there' rules, the lack of catering and so on. I did not find my last few journeys pleasant at all, and that's not just because I had to wear a mask.

The endless announcements and notices are very, very tedious. It was getting bad enough over the last few years, and the current situation has made it many times worse I will say however that, like most things, you do get used to it, and I've mostly now got to the point of tuning it all out after a number of trips over the past few weeks.

As an aside, the trains around Cambridge/Ely are quite a lot busier than they were at the 'equivalent' time in the 'unlocking' last year (ie. mid-June). Still very very quiet compared to normal though.

+1 for the 'National Railcard' idea

 

[dk1]

The endless announcements and notices are very, very tedious. It was getting bad enough over the last few years, and the current situation has made it many times worse I will say however that, like most things, you do get used to it, and I've mostly now got to the point of tuning it all out after a number of trips over the past few weeks.

As an aside, the trains around Cambridge/Ely are quite a lot busier than they were at the 'equivalent' time in the 'unlocking' last year (ie. mid-June). Still very very quiet compared to normal though.

+1 for the 'National Railcard' idea

Had several occasions in the last fortnight with in excess off 100 passengers on my Norwich-Cambridge trains & Cambridge station itself has picked up no end. About time M&S reopened I think.

 

[PR1Berske]

With passenger numbers collapsing, and still something like 30% of "normal" figures on some routes, I really don't know how to encourage the everyday, "on a whim" passenger back to stations any time soon.

It's a balancing act. People who are wary, worried, concerned, still feel scared about the spread of COVID, will not welcome the sight of a jam-packed train with standing room only. The day-trippers and wanderers and shoppers who want to balance the old ways with the new normal may be lost to the railways for months, if not years. People who want to fast-forward to an age without social distancing, masks etc., may stay away for the same reasons as other passengers want to return. Trying to please everyone is impossible. As long as the disease carries on spreading, restrictions must stay in place.

"Journey Out To Help Out" or whatever a national rail card might end up being would help persuade people to give the railways a go after 18 months out...but I can't see the "on the whim" passenger feeling comfortable with going from a covid-secure world outside the railways to a non-secure world on the railways.

 

[dk1]

With passenger numbers collapsing, and still something like 30% of "normal" figures on some routes, I really don't know how to encourage the everyday, "on a whim" passenger back to stations any time soon.

It's a balancing act. People who are wary, worried, concerned, still feel scared about the spread of COVID, will not welcome the sight of a jam-packed train with standing room only. The day-trippers and wanderers and shoppers who want to balance the old ways with the new normal may be lost to the railways for months, if not years. People who want to fast-forward to an age without social distancing, masks etc., may stay away for the same reasons as other passengers want to return. Trying to please everyone is impossible. As long as the disease carries on spreading, restrictions must stay in place.

"Journey Out To Help Out" or whatever a national rail card might end up being would help persuade people to give the railways a go after 18 months out...but I can't see the "on the whim" passenger feeling comfortable with going from a covid-secure world outside the railways to a non-secure world on the railways.

Oh I don’t know. Norwich-Sheringham services where extremely full the week before last during the warm spell. Nobody seemed bothered in the slightest. It was like nothing had ever happened.

 

[PR1Berske]

Oh I don’t know. Norwich-Sheringham services where extremely full the week before last during the warm spell. Nobody seemed bothered in the slightest. It was like nothing had ever happened.

That surprises me. And concerns me.

 

[dk1]

That surprises me. And concerns me.

That’s the general public for you. Nothing was going to get in the way of their day at the seaside.

 

[yorksrob]

With passenger numbers collapsing, and still something like 30% of "normal" figures on some routes, I really don't know how to encourage the everyday, "on a whim" passenger back to stations any time soon.

It's a balancing act. People who are wary, worried, concerned, still feel scared about the spread of COVID, will not welcome the sight of a jam-packed train with standing room only. The day-trippers and wanderers and shoppers who want to balance the old ways with the new normal may be lost to the railways for months, if not years. People who want to fast-forward to an age without social distancing, masks etc., may stay away for the same reasons as other passengers want to return. Trying to please everyone is impossible. As long as the disease carries on spreading, restrictions must stay in place.

"Journey Out To Help Out" or whatever a national rail card might end up being would help persuade people to give the railways a go after 18 months out...but I can't see the "on the whim" passenger feeling comfortable with going from a covid-secure world outside the railways to a non-secure world on the railways.

It depends what sort of a "covid secure" world we have outside. If social distancing/mask wearing fall out of favour in the wider world of pubs and shops, people will be more prepared to go back to busy trains.

 

[duncanp]

Indeed. I am somewhat surprised they keep the "please walk and cycle where you can" because TfL desperately needs any income it can get its hands on. Unless somehow they've made more money from people driving in the Congestion Charge Zone.

Indeed, when you put some journeys into the journey planner (eg. Euston to Blackhorse Road) it comes up with the walking and cycling options first, even though the sensible option would be to take the tube.

But if you put in Epping to West Ruislip, it somehow seems to know not to suggest walking or cycling for that journey.

 

[PR1Berske]

It depends what sort of a "covid secure" world we have outside. If social distancing/mask wearing fall out of favour in the wider world of pubs and shops, people will be more prepared to go back to busy trains.

Possibly.

All it'll take is one tabloid newspaper's coverage of a rush-hour crush and a spike in cases, or a variant form of coronavirus in a big city with offices re-opening, and the role of the railways will be investigated.

I can't see "on a whim" passengers going back to how things were on, say, Manchester Piccadilly on a weekday 4pm/5pm commuter route anytime soon.

 

[squizzler]

All it'll take is one tabloid newspaper's coverage of a rush-hour crush and a spike in cases, or a variant form of coronavirus in a big city with offices re-opening, and the role of the railways will be investigated.

I think you grossly overestimate the impact in today’s media landscape of what the current bun or daily flail have to say for themselves anymore:

 

[dk1]

I think you grossly overestimate the impact in today’s media landscape of what the current bun or daily flail have to say for themselves anymore:

And it’s only a five day wonder when does make the news. People soon forget.

 

[greyman42]

People who are wary, worried, concerned, still feel scared about the spread of COVID, will not welcome the sight of a jam-packed train with standing room only.

They don't have to like it, they just need to get on with it. A bit like when the alarm goes off to wake them up.

 

[Cdd89]

With the exception of those of us on this forum, most people travelling by rail are doing so because the car-based alternative (which all things being equal is likely to be cheaper after the sunk cost of buying and maintaining a car) is either unavailable to them, or because it has downsides (traffic, parking scarcity, congestion charges, parking costs, etc).

Apple Mobility Data bears this out, in that while public transport is below car use and car use has been steadily gaining during lockdown, the two modes do nevertheless track each other. As car use further increases, more people will be pushed to rail.

Accordingly, I’m not convinced much needs to be done to make passengers return; once they wish to travel they will. And that goes doubly for “standing room only” services which people didn’t like prior to Covid but will continue to use because anyone using such a service is doing so because the benefits of rail in that context are so great to them that they will endure a less pleasant journey.

 

[Butts]

I'm quite happy for Trains to remain quiet as they have been for the whole of the pandemic from my experience.

We don't want a load of panicking "frit furloughites" coming on-board and ruining the ambience.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I'm quite happy for Trains to remain quiet as they have been for the whole of the pandemic from my experience.

We don't want a load of panicking "frit furloughites" coming on-board and ruining the ambience.

I was thinking similar. I've been able to take my bike on peak time trains for the past year

 

[NorthOxonian]

With the exception of those of us on this forum, most people travelling by rail are doing so because the car-based alternative (which all things being equal is likely to be cheaper after the sunk cost of buying and maintaining a car) is either unavailable to them, or because it has downsides (traffic, parking scarcity, congestion charges, parking costs, etc).

Apple Mobility Data bears this out, in that while public transport is below car use and car use has been steadily gaining during lockdown, the two modes do nevertheless track each other. As car use further increases, more people will be pushed to rail.

Accordingly, I’m not convinced much needs to be done to make passengers return; once they wish to travel they will. And that goes doubly for “standing room only” services which people didn’t like prior to Covid but will continue to use because anyone using such a service is doing so because the benefits of rail in that context are so great to them that they will endure a less pleasant journey.

This will be even more exaggerated when looking at rail, because I seem to recall some evidence of a split between bus services and rail services. A few weeks back I read that bus demand was something like 50% of what would be expected but for rail it was more like 30%. Both of those figures will have increased but the point stands - rail, and especially intercity rail, is probably recovering slower than public transport as a whole.

 

[yorksrob]

This will be even more exaggerated when looking at rail, because I seem to recall some evidence of a split between bus services and rail services. A few weeks back I read that bus demand was something like 50% of what would be expected but for rail it was more like 30%. Both of those figures will have increased but the point stands - rail, and especially intercity rail, is probably recovering slower than public transport as a whole.

It's quite understandable really. Bus is more geared to local journeys and the guidance gives more scope to doing things locally.

Also, rail traditionally has a bias towards commuting to the office, and the guidance is still to work from home.

 

[Snow1964]

Didn't Virgin Trains have a 50% reduction for a period on all the fares they controlled, this after Hatfield in 2001?

And Network SouthEast had some £1 anywhere launch days, but that did cause excessive crowds on some of their longer routes.


But more realistically until the railway operators offer full range of advance tickets (including at weekends) 12 weeks away, there won’t have fully reopened.

So clearly as cannot yet buy discounted advance tickets for first weekend in July, they don’t intend to be running full service by then. At least that is the perception they are giving potential customer who is thinking of returning to the railway, or looking into planning a trip.

Normality (the subject of this thread) does not mean continuing to do late changes, it means normal full service, and no late release of tickets.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm quite happy for Trains to remain quiet as they have been for the whole of the pandemic from my experience.

We don't want a load of panicking "frit furloughites" coming on-board and ruining the ambience.

I don't mind either way but if I have to get to and from work, so be it. In fact, this week was the first week I had to sit in a table bay-of-4 opposite somebody else

If a "frit furloughite" wishes to peep through the doorway, panic and decide not to board then that's one less person getting on the train. Their problem, not mine. I will just board trains as normal and get on with life

 

[snookertam]

I think in Scotland there will be big problems getting people back into trains. I know there were proposals by Transport Scotland to have ‘free travel’ days now and then, which may work to an extent depending what day it is. People have been using their cars permanently having been told for most of the past year that public transport was strictly for essential use only. Those new habits may be difficult to shift, especially when most commuter/urban routes have reduced services anyway.

Offices in Scotland are unlikely to open until much later in the year and even then it will be on a limited basis, so commuter traffic is also down for the foreseeable future. Business travel is also likely to slump long term, with only leisure travel if anything able to increase over the summer.

I can well see why the Scottish Govt have decided to keep the franchise in public hands as there’s no way a private operator would have been interested. The railway has bounced back before though - I recall a prolonged overtime ban by drivers in the early 2000s which saw reduced services in place for months, but this seems like a whole bigger challenge.

 

[Bikeman78]

Oh I don’t know. Norwich-Sheringham services where extremely full the week before last during the warm spell. Nobody seemed bothered in the slightest. It was like nothing had ever happened.

Same between Worthing and Brighton yesterday. It's ironic that we have jam packed 313s heading to Brighton but the 12 car peak trains to London are lightly loaded.

 

[dk1]

Same between Worthing and Brighton yesterday. It's ironic that we have jam packed 313s heading to Brighton but the 12 car peak trains to London are lightly loaded.

London from here in East Anglia has picked up quite a bit. Constant tweets of limited social distancing in the peak & not uncommon to get 250 on IC services although it's still not a full service on either.

 

[anthony263]

I'm sat in my optare solo at landaf Station and I've just seen a class 143 and 150 arrive with a service towards Cardiff Central. Nearly every seat is taken on the 143 and the 150 is relatively full too so good to see passenger numbers at starting to return.

I think the industry is going to have to get innovative but should be able to encourage passengers back to rail especially when road congestion picks up as its doing at the moment

 

[Pete_uk]

Nice to see people getting about. We may as well get back to it and see what happens.

 

[snookertam]

Public transport can be used on a non essential basis in Scotland again now. We’ll see how long it takes for numbers to increase. I know trains to/from Balloch were busier on Saturday for people going to Loch Lomond. I’d guess it will have been similar on the Ayrshire coast.

 

[bramling]

Unfortunately, I think the railways have a lot of work to do to convince people to travel with them.

Pre-pandemic, I preferred to use the train if I needed to visit another part of the country, either for work or leisure. I found it much less stressful than driving, especially if I could plan to travel off peak when the trains weren't busy.

The few times I have used the train during the pandemic, I have felt like I was an inconvenience to the railway, with announcements and notices about 'key workers' and 'essential travel' - even when these were not part of the legal restrictions in place at the time I was travelling. There are many similar stories on this forum. Then we have the one way systems, the 'can't sit there', 'don't stand there' rules, the lack of catering and so on. I did not find my last few journeys pleasant at all, and that's not just because I had to wear a mask.

In the future I will be doing far less travel for work, because I think Zoom etc are here to stay. My colleagues who work in London will be doing far less commuting as home working will become the norm in our company. So the railway will be more dependent on leisure travel. Unless they find a way to make leisure travellers feel more welcome, I cannot see people returning in huge volumes. Some will use cars instead, some won't travel at all.

I have several trips already planned for the next few months - all of which will be by car.

I agree with this. The travelling experience at the moment is not cordial at all for all the reasons described above, and there's still a small core of hysterical mask obsessives who will make a scene given half a chance.

Personally I'm finding driving much more enjoyable at the minute - I've driven to London these last three days and traffic levels are still marginally down on pre-March 2020 levels, though there were quite a few dopey daytrippers on the roads yesterday!

TfL would go bankrupt within weeks if the government didn't keep providing them financial support.

Even now, their website has a banner across the top of the home page saying Coronavirus - minimise travel, which isn't exactly encouraging people to use the system.

The whole TfL situation is a farce. Reducing transport use isn't an unreasonable objective if you're trying to maximise the effectiveness of social distancing, especially if you have groups of people whose presence at work is more important than the rest of the population (i.e. key workers). However this quickly became a game of political football between the government and the mayor, which in the circumstances I find disgusting, and both sides are as guilty as the other. It probably didn't help that a mayoral election was coming up, and with London being increasingly non-Conservative meant there was little lose from their point of view.