Ghost trains AKA parlimentry services

[tbtc]

These aren't actually the same.

Stockport-Stalybridge is a year round service in one direction only.

Chester-Runcorn is a seasonal service in one direction only.

Why wasn't the minimum requirement the same? Was Chester-Runcorn actually part of a seasonal service such as Liverpool to a North Wales holiday resort?

I don't know why one is summer only. Regardless, the "Parliamentary" definition should have nothing to do with franchise requirements - its to do with the minimum required to tick a box to keep a line open (which is generally one train a week in one direction only), thus nothing to do with Helsby - Ellesmere Port etc.

 

[Whistler40145]

Prior to the Halton Curve being singled, was there a Parliamentary service in both directions?

I traversed it on a Liverpool to London Euston service, but diversions don't count.


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[Cherry_Picker]

Did anyone else spot that they ran shot of a 185 backwards at around 3:16?

Good little video and nice to hear a positive story for once. Though I wonder why the BBC are suddenly so interested in Parlys as the One Show did a similar piece not so long ago covering the Chiltern service into Paddington.

The Chiltern story ran three times, on the radio, then on the TV and then as a text article on a website. I'm guessing somebody was very good at pitching the story to the BBC in the first place and then they got good feedback after they ran it. Maybe they continued to get good feedback and decided to try to recreate it? It's a cheap story to cover and gives an interesting angle on something that most people in the country dont know about.

 

[GarethW]

Ian Marchant did a R4 half hour program called "The Ghost Trains of Old England" back in Nov 10 which was very good.

He did Stockport-Stalybridge. Teeside Airport. The Ealing-Wandsworth replacement bus and Newhaven Marine where he got the taxi to Newhaven Harbour!

Long since gone from iPlayer but there might be a copy somewhere, well worth a listen if you can find it.

 

[IanD]

The guy says that one of the features of "ghost trains" is the bad connections at either end of the line. Neither is true of the two lines featured - Stockport, Stalybridge, Ellesmere Port and Helsby all have good connections. The first train to and last train from Ellesmere Port are generally through trains from elsewhere as well.

Also true of the next project he was planning - Goole has reasonable connections and the train he would use starts from/continues to Leeds (depending on his direction of travel) - how many connections does he want?

 

[wintonian]

Ian Marchant did a R4 half hour program called "The Ghost Trains of Old England" back in Nov 10 which was very good.

He did Stockport-Stalybridge. Teeside Airport. The Ealing-Wandsworth replacement bus and Newhaven Marine where he got the taxi to Newhaven Harbour!

Long since gone from iPlayer but there might be a copy somewhere, well worth a listen if you can find it.

You can read the synopsis here though.

Or (partial?) transcript here.

 

[Searle]

Add Newhaven Marine to the list of things to visit

 

[Pen Mill]

Helsby-Ellesmere Port is not a "Parliamentary" service - it's got four trains a day!

Sorry but there's a big difference between "Parliamentary" and "not very frequent" - far too often lines with several services a week get muddled into the former category...

/rant

You can't call this a "frequent" service when the trains are 06:03 ,06:33;15:17 & 15:48. I think 4 trains a day is misleading as well as true !!

I agree that they aren't Ghost services though because they're in the timetable.

The diagrams for these moves is interesting.
The pairs of early morning and mid-afternoon services are run like this:-
WBQ-HSB-ELP-HSB-ELP-HSB-WBQ so it looks like there is a demand for an early morning and mid afternoon service from/to Warrington but why the filler journey ?and why the empty train for our reporter ?

 

[tbtc]

You can't call this a "frequent" service when the trains are 06:03 ,06:33;15:17 & 15:48. I think 4 trains a day is misleading as well as true !!

I agree that they aren't Ghost services though because they're in the timetable.

The diagrams for these moves is interesting.
The pairs of early morning and mid-afternoon services are run like this:-
WBQ-HSB-ELP-HSB-ELP-HSB-WBQ so it looks like there is a demand for an early morning and mid afternoon service from/to Warrington but why the filler journey ?and why the empty train for our reporter ?

I'm not claiming it to be frequent, I'm saying that it's clearly not a "Parly".

The service exists to tick a box on the franchise requirements at times when units are in less demand in Manchester/Liverpool (rather than any real demand) but franchise requirements are generally well above/beyond the minimum "parliamentary" level of service required to keep a line in operation.

 

[John55]

I don't know why one is summer only. Regardless, the "Parliamentary" definition should have nothing to do with franchise requirements - its to do with the minimum required to tick a box to keep a line open (which is generally one train a week in one direction only), thus nothing to do with Helsby - Ellesmere Port etc.

I believe the legal requirement is one train per year. This was established in a test case brought by the West Yorkshire PTE when BR wished to withdraw a service which only ran in the summer school holidays on Saturdays from Bradford avoiding Leeds to the south coast.

The whole thing completely backfired on the PTE because while they won the case and BR had to go through a full closure procedure the opposite of course also applied and it is now only necessary to run a very minimalist service to avoid the closure process.

 

[Pen Mill]

I'm not claiming it to be frequent, I'm saying that it's clearly not a "Parly".

The service exists to tick a box on the franchise requirements at times when units are in less demand in Manchester/Liverpool (rather than any real demand) but franchise requirements are generally well above/beyond the minimum "parliamentary" level of service required to keep a line in operation.

Fair comment !

What puzzles me about this line is that it seems to regularly come up on a wish list for extension of Merseyrail from Ellesmere port. I'd love to see the business case for this one !

 

[142094]

The guy says that one of the features of "ghost trains" is the bad connections at either end of the line. Neither is true of the two lines featured - Stockport, Stalybridge, Ellesmere Port and Helsby all have good connections. The first train to and last train from Ellesmere Port are generally through trains from elsewhere as well.

Also true of the next project he was planning - Goole has reasonable connections and the train he would use starts from/continues to Leeds (depending on his direction of travel) - how many connections does he want?

Exactly, was on the afternoon Ellesmere Port - Warrington train and had a connection at WBQ in about 10 minutes.

 

[billio]

There is actually two trains per day in each direction, but still not exactly a great service.

True, but there is only one train a day from York to Sheffield where you can get a service back the same day.

 

[David Goddard]

Are there any parlys booked via Primrose Hill & the Graham Road Curve?


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Not any more, AFAIK.

This is a great reference site:
http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2012.htm

 

[142094]

PSUL has been down for most of the morning.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Thanks for highlighting this video. I found it quite interesting, and as one of the enthusiast say's it seems to be quite a 'British' thing.

 

[iandelg]

This is a great reference site:
http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2012.htm

http://www.auod93.dsl.pipex.com/UT.htm also covers parliamentary trains, as well as engineering diversions and scheduled WTTs over other rare routes

 

[34D]

Its disappointing that most of this thread has been taken up with pointless discussion over whether or not 'parliamentary' is the correct term to use for these ghost trains.

How many ghost trains run on the network, don't think there are any in Scotland, can these be listed for enthusiasts or are there to many ?
Fantastic clip and a right looker from Northern Rail!!

There's the inverness rose street one.

 

[David Goddard]

There's the inverness rose street one.

Had read about that one ten days ago, then soon after arrival at Inverness last Monday actually saw it happen without realising it!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Just a reminder that the Chester to Runcorn parliamentary service is being extended this coming Saturday to terminate at Liverpool South Parkway and is calling at Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn en route.
http://www.ncrug.chrisellams.co.uk/page11.html

 

[172212]

There's a difference between a parliamentary train and service. A parliamentary train is referring to a service that calls at a station very rarely, I.e. Polesworth only receives 2 trains per day in either direction. A parliamentary service, would be a service that only runs once a day or very rarely. So maybe late night Birmingham - Cheltenham Spa LM services could be an example

 

[sheff'd victoria]

There's the Sheffield to Cleethorpes line via Gainsborough Central and Brigg, 3 trains each way, Saturdays only. Been like that for years.

It is getting well known fact that I have a major gripe towards the shocking state of rail travel in Lincolnshire, this line is been reviewed by The Department for Transport as part of the 2014 Northern Rail Franchise so hopefully their will be a brighter future

 

[tbtc]

It is getting well known fact that I have a major gripe towards the shocking state of rail travel in Lincolnshire, this line is been reviewed by The Department for Transport as part of the 2014 Northern Rail Franchise so hopefully their will be a brighter future

Presumably every line will be reviewed?

 

[sheff'd victoria]

It is getting well known fact that I have a major gripe towards the shocking state of rail travel in Lincolnshire, this line is been reviewed by The Department for Transport as part of the 2014 Northern Rail Franchise so hopefully their will be a brighter future

Presumably every line will be reviewed?

Its taken me around 6 months for the Department for Transport to confirm that the " Brigg " line will be reviewed so the answer is " I have no idea " to your question