Given the Shapps announcement, which lines would you propose for reopening?

[Peter Kelford]

The press seem to be reporting that the Transport Secretary's main contribution to the Tory Hypothetical Manifesto is the reversal of the Beeching Axe. Questions of political integrity, honesty and likelihood to win aside, what lines would want rebuilding and what would need upgrading?

 

[LMS 4F]

My idea is to save all the Pacers to work all these lines once they are reopened. The users will be so pleased to have a train service again they won't mind what stock actually works it. In any case there won't be any money left over for stock once all the necessary work has been carried out.

 

[Peter Kelford]

A good retirement for the pacers indeed, carrying out vital social connection duties.

 

[Struner]

There must be a lot of them around then?

 

[anthony263]

Pyle to porthcawl and perhaps treherbert to blaengwynfi and cymmer via re opened rhondda tunnel?

 

[cactustwirly]

The best contender in my view is Leicester to Burton, with stations at West End, Braunstone, Coalville and Ashby-de-la-Zouch
It would be an extension of the Lincoln - Leicester service so that extra platform capacity at Leicester isn't required

 

[Tobbes]

Assuming that Shaps's murmurings have anything other than pre-electioneering behind them (forgive my cynicism on this point), then the list is not endless, but it is large. All of the following would fall behind HS2/NPR and behind HS2 on dedicated HSR all the way to the Central Belt. I'm also assuming here that EWR actually happens in full.

Focussing on cross-country links in England, I would include (largely on housing growth grounds):

Okehampton - Tavistock (upgraded and opened as a through route)
Peterborough - Wellingborough - Northampton
GCR London to Rugby (providing a regional service on the HS2 trace)
Cambs - Huntingdon
Oxford - Whitney - Fairford (extended to Cirencester and Kemble)
Stratford - Honeybourne
King's Lynn - Swaffham - Dereham - Wymondham (and thence Norwich)

Not really knowing the north of England, I couldn't prioritise - but Skipton - Colne should win a prize for pure persistence, and Penrith - Keswick because I think it would be fab irrespective of the business case!

 

[pompeyfan]

I remember reading a while ago about Ringwood and also Fawley/Marchwood being reconnected with passenger services.

shapps seems to have given hope as well to the Bordon line although quite where you would wedge that in I don’t know.

Tavistock diversion is essential, I only worry that because there’s not much population other than those 2 places it’s unlikely to happen.

 

[3141]

Moderator note: split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/shapps-to-reverse-beeching-cuts.194126/page-4

If there were going to be some new railways, consideration ought to start by thinking about the areas or specific towns that ought to be on the rail network. In many cases there would be a former railway nearby. But it wouldn't automatically follow that the former railway should be rebuilt. One of the problems about reinstating closed branch lines is that there may no longer be the capacity on the main line that they connect with for running trains from the branch along the main line to the larger centres to which potential passengers really want to travel. In such cases you'd have to contemplate a shuttle service along the branch from the main line junction. In that case, it might be more sensible to reinstate the branch as a tram-like service rather than heavy rail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In that case, it might be more sensible to reinstate the branch as a tram-like service rather than heavy rail.

I think there is a very strong case for light-rail-ising branch lines generally where there is no through running or where that through running might have limited value over the benefits light-rail-ising could bring (e.g. with Windermere you could increase frequency more cheaply by giving up just 3tpd to the Airport). Power could either be battery/supercapacitor or DC OHLE, but you could save money by way of allowing cheaper light rail concepts to apply while improving service, e.g. cheaper signalling and passing loops as well as foot crossings and 100% wheelchair accessibility with low floor trams, also making it cheaper to rejig station locations to make them more useful.

I think it's a real shame the St Albans project didn't go ahead to try the concepts out.

 

[deltic08]

I think there is a very strong case for light-rail-ising branch lines generally where there is no through running or where that through running might have limited value over the benefits light-rail-ising could bring (e.g. with Windermere you could increase frequency more cheaply by giving up just 3tpd to the Airport). Power could either be battery/supercapacitor or DC OHLE, but you could save money by way of allowing cheaper light rail concepts to apply while improving service, e.g. cheaper signalling and passing loops as well as foot crossings and 100% wheelchair accessibility with low floor trams, also making it cheaper to rejig station locations to make them more useful.

In your deams!
At some point trams on the Windermere branch will need servicing and maintenance. Where will they go and how will they get there at 50mph top speed on dc when the main line is 100mph+ on ac? It just disintegrates the system even more.
Sometime in the future I would like to think charters could access Windermere.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

Can we restart electrification projects and not leave main lines across the country with half assed electrification? Fully electrify the MML to Sheffield, Nottingham and Derby would be a start!

Back on topic though, maybe reopen Ripon to Harrogate and Skipton to Colne.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Can we restart electrification projects and not leave main lines across the country with half assed electrification? Fully electrify the MML to Sheffield, Nottingham and Derby would be a start!

Back on topic though, maybe reopen Ripon to Harrogate and Skipton to Colne.

I totally agree

 

[yorksrob]

And the promoters of reopening to Cirencester are proposing a small halt in the town centre, with the main station a park-and-ride in the fields opposite the Royal Agricultural University - which is not going to do much to get people out of their cars. So what exactly is the supposed benefit over driving three more miles to Kemble?

http://cirentrain.org.uk
.

Perhaps you should visit St Ives in Cornwall to see how many passengers a "small halt" in a town centre can generate. It's the location which is key, rather than the grandiosity of the station in generating volumes. By having a park and ride on the outskirts, they're covering all bases.

This strikes me as a decent little route which could do well.

 

[daveshah]

Restarting passenger services to Fawley was in the local news a few weeks ago, because of significant housing development where the power station was.

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17...on-fawley-rail-route-never-confident-success/

CAMPAIGNERS calling for a Hampshire railway line to be reopened say their hopes of success have never been higher.

Cllr David Harrison and fellow enthusiasts want passenger services on the Totton to Fawley branch line to be restored to ease the ever-increasing burden on the A326 and other roads in the area.

The campaign has gained new momentum since Fawley Waterside unveiled plans to build up to 1,500 homes on land currently occupied by Fawley power station.

The issue was raised at a meeting of New Forest District Council's environment and overview panel.

Although I don't think it will happen (however nice it would be), in theory it shouldn't be too difficult - upgrading the current tracks to passenger standard and adding some stations.

Brockenhurst to Ringwood comes up occasionally, another project I'd like to see happen. But although most of the trackbed is still hypothetically available (now a cycle track), some has become part of the Brockenhurst to Burley road. This would be much harder to deal with - neither closure nor taking more national park land to build another road would be politically favoured options.

 

[Midnight Sun]

Brockenhurst to Ringwood comes up occasionally, another project I'd like to see happen. But although most of the trackbed is still hypothetically available (now a cycle track), some has become part of the Brockenhurst to Burley road. This would be much harder to deal with - neither closure nor taking more national park land to build another road would be politically favoured options.

Only about 1 mile of trackbed has a road built on, One mile of new road would hardly cause much problem, Not a 6 line motorway. As the location of the station in Ringwood next to Castleman Way would be the close as you can get to the centre of town

 

[Tobbes]

It's back to ATOC Connecting Communities -- or at least we can dream!

 

[yorksrob]

We need upgrades of the existing network as well as connecting new communities to it. That should be a mixture of new stations on existing lines, reopened routes and some new routes.

 

[HSTEd]

With HS2 likely to relieve the WCML, at least partially, we could consider reopening some lines connecting the WCML to other main lines.

Rugby to Whetstone in South Leicester along the GCML alignment.
You can use the existing Birmingham-Leicester line to get into Leicester.

And given the availability of tilt and the relative straightness of an alignment, journey times comparable to, or marginally better than, the existing Leicester-London times can be achieved, but taking the traffic out of the overloaded St Pancras and the southern MML.

 

[The Ham]

I think there is a very strong case for light-rail-ising branch lines generally where there is no through running or where that through running might have limited value over the benefits light-rail-ising could bring (e.g. with Windermere you could increase frequency more cheaply by giving up just 3tpd to the Airport). Power could either be battery/supercapacitor or DC OHLE, but you could save money by way of allowing cheaper light rail concepts to apply while improving service, e.g. cheaper signalling and passing loops as well as foot crossings and 100% wheelchair accessibility with low floor trams, also making it cheaper to rejig station locations to make them more useful.

I think it's a real shame the St Albans project didn't go ahead to try the concepts out.

I replied to this in the original thread, and add it contains information useful to this discussion I'll quote it here as well:

Although there could appear to be a good case for light rail it doesn't always follow that it will be.

As an example light rail was considered as an option for the branch to Borden from the Alton/Farnham. However it was found to be more expensive than traditional rail as it would need to have its own depot and other features which a heavy rail system didn't.

 

[The Ham]

Personally one such reopening which should be considered should be that through Okehampton.

However it should be considered as part of the wider improvements to the line out of Waterloo.

Now it's unlikely to be able to compete with London/Plymouth journey times with the GWR services, but then it doesn't need to.

What it does allow is for those from the South Coast areas (Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Weymouth) as well as other places along the SWML (Basingstoke, Woking, Guildford) to get to/from Exeter/Plymouth on a competitive journey time.

To achieve this would require more loops/redoubling along the WofE line so that you could increase the frequency of the services so that all the services didn't have to stop everywhere West of Salisbury.

Something like:
1tph fast service calling at key stations Waterloo to Plymouth
1tph Plymouth to Honiton (existing GWR service extended to Plymouth)
1tph local services Waterloo to Okehampton (basically the existing service extend to Okehampton)

Now to facilitate that you'd need to build Crossrail 2, but that's needed anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

Another one for Bere Alston to Okehampton. Also Uckfield - Lewes and Chinley - Matlock.

From a personal point of view, Bodmin Parkway - Padstow, because it's such a ball-ache to get to by bus.

 

[yorksrob]

NSE managed to reopen Oxford - Bicester on a freight only route. Why then, after twenty years of passenger increases, can our railway not manage the same with the Ivanhoe line, for example.

 

[The Planner]

With HS2 likely to relieve the WCML, at least partially, we could consider reopening some lines connecting the WCML to other main lines.

Rugby to Whetstone in South Leicester along the GCML alignment.
You can use the existing Birmingham-Leicester line to get into Leicester.

And given the availability of tilt and the relative straightness of an alignment, journey times comparable to, or marginally better than, the existing Leicester-London times can be achieved, but taking the traffic out of the overloaded St Pancras and the southern MML.

Really, even with the reversal you would need at Rugby? You would have to have Wigston sorted too.

 

[Kingspanner]

I would reconnect Durham and Sunderland via Fencehouses, Cox Green and South Hylton. Most of the trackbed and structures are in place (albeit some tunnelling under the A1 a la the Borders Railway versus the Edinburgh City Bypass might be needed) and the stretch of the ECML between Newton Hall and Durham could be tripled(!) as I believe it once was*. The up side car park at Durham will have to revert to a bay platform but hey-ho. As a side effect the rest of the Leamside line could be reinstated and a cheeky central County Durham to Newcastle commuter stretch created as well.
*My reference for this is a single blurry picture of a Deltic on that stretch in the 1960s I saw on Flickr somewhere. So not much of a belief really

 

[HSTEd]

Really, even with the reversal you would need at Rugby? You would have to have Wigston sorted too.

Why would you reverse at Rugby?

You would just have an east-to-north Chord where the WCML crosses the ex GCML.

 

[Scouseinmanc]

I would have to say Chinley to Matlock too & reinstatement of the Burscough curves.

 

[Merle Haggard]

In the last couple of weeks we have had the Secretary of State for Transport announce the possibility of re-opening a railway line to serve Northampton; and, simultaneously, the TOC that operates trains through that town being unable to run anything like the trains in the timetable, the initial inability to run weekend trains after tea-time having now spread to weekday morning peaks. But we've already been told that railway operations are nothing to do with the Secretary of State, so these two events are obviously totally unconnected.

The suggestion up thread that Daventry (D.C. population, 80,000) might deserve a railway station has been resolved by LNR reducing the weekday service to Long Buckby (the present railhead for Daventry).

As an avid radio 4 listener, I no longer have to wait until "Dead Ringers" with Alistair McGowan is broadcast for half an hour once a week; for satire, I just listen to 'Today' any day for 3 hours. I do wonder whether I've fallen through a space-time continuum to a world entirely composed of irony and satire; it certainly seems like it...

 

[xotGD]

Bishop Auckland to Durham via Spennymoor, with through services to Newcastle.

 

[s'land]

I would reconnect Durham and Sunderland via Fencehouses, Cox Green and South Hylton. Most of the trackbed and structures are in place (albeit some tunnelling under the A1 a la the Borders Railway versus the Edinburgh City Bypass might be needed) and the stretch of the ECML between Newton Hall and Durham could be tripled(!) as I believe it once was*. The up side car park at Durham will have to revert to a bay platform but hey-ho. As a side effect the rest of the Leamside line could be reinstated and a cheeky central County Durham to Newcastle commuter stretch created as well.
*My reference for this is a single blurry picture of a Deltic on that stretch in the 1960s I saw on Flickr somewhere. So not much of a belief really

I agree, the Durham to Sunderland route should never have been closed in the first place. I'd image it would be very well used, by workers, day trippers and people enjoying a day out pub crawling and other people going the other way for football.