Glasgow Subway new stock

[DanNCL]

True - however most passengers know how many stops until their disembarkation so this is hardly a priority. There is little point in providing a facility that adds minimal value, especially if the cost outweighs the benefit,

It doesn’t matter how much it costs, it’s a legal requirement so SPT have to spend the money on it whether they like it or not.

The ORR are responsible for enforcing this sort of thing, I wonder if they’re even aware…

 

[jagardner1984]

It doesn’t matter how much it costs, it’s a legal requirement so SPT have to spend the money on it whether they like it or not.

The ORR are responsible for enforcing this sort of thing, I wonder if they’re even aware…

Is it not more that Glasgow subway is in so many ways non compliant, that it is difficult to differentiate between all the “acceptable” non compliance and that which is not.

I think there may be a fairly pragmatic reason for a hesitance to promote greater accessibility (the only stations with Lifts are St Enoch and Govan) - therefore the potential for a prolonged evacuation from the depths of the tunnel under the Clyde - which I assume would involve the fire brigade and probably all sorts of terrible publicity - is substantial and detraining in these locations has happened in recent years.

The existing system being something of an economic basket case anyway, I’d imagine the business case to rebuild the majority of the system to modern accessibility standards would be prohibitively weak - though of course on a basic level of fairness it seems desperately unreasonable that for much of the 21st Century, disabled people and indeed those with restricted mobility, with buggies etc will still have dramatically less access to Glasgow’s main public transport compared with other citizens.

Presumably at Bean counter level, at least in 2011 logic, they figured this compromise was preferable to full closure.

 

[DanNCL]

Is it not more that Glasgow subway is in so many ways non compliant, that it is difficult to differentiate between all the “acceptable” non compliance and that which is not.

I think there may be a fairly pragmatic reason for a hesitance to promote greater accessibility (the only stations with Lifts are St Enoch and Govan) - therefore the potential for a prolonged evacuation from the depths of the tunnel under the Clyde - which I assume would involve the fire brigade and probably all sorts of terrible publicity - is substantial and detraining in these locations has happened in recent years.

The existing system being something of an economic basket case anyway, I’d imagine the business case to rebuild the majority of the system to modern accessibility standards would be prohibitively weak - though of course on a basic level of fairness it seems desperately unreasonable that for much of the 21st Century, disabled people and indeed those with restricted mobility, with buggies etc will still have dramatically less access to Glasgow’s main public transport compared with other citizens.

Presumably at Bean counter level, at least in 2011 logic, they figured this compromise was preferable to full closure.

The Bakerloo line is equally inaccessible in that sense yet TFL are still (slowly) making the 72 stock compliant. With the G2 trains they have the excuse of the fleet being old and on its way out. They don’t have that with the G3s, should have been fully compliant from new.

The generally inaccessible nature of the stations isn’t a reason for the trains not to be compliant. And it’s not unreasonable to expect a brand new fleet of trains to be fully compliant as standard.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I don’t believe this is an issue as 13 of the stations offer no wheelchair access _ only 2 do. As for auto announcements - as a local I find this somewhat pointless as there are only two ways to go, and there are large painted wall signage showing the order of stations. Sure it might take you 28 minutes longer to get to your station if you get on the wrong side, but you will get there!

Or indeed a never-ending circle and a lot of guesswork should you be in a position, as I am where you can't see the wall mounted signage or appreciate anything that might be being displayed on internal display screens. I find your whole view on this somewhat now reminded but we'll let it go as like the majority of the general public and indeed bean counters at spt you've probably fail to appreciate that disabled people do travel on their own sometimes in this day and age

 

[Buzby]

The ORR are responsible for enforcing this sort of thing, I wonder if they’re even aware

Of course they were. There was no way the Subway could be made compliant without rebuilding it from the ground up. Faced with shutting it down as an alternative they accepted what you would describe as token gestures over the next 30 years or so. However the design of the trains were altered to accommodate wheelchairs - as long as they only want to go between Govan and St Enoch. Of the remainder it would be cheaper for them to provide an accessible taxi than modify the remainder at a massive cost to the public purse.

fail to appreciate that disabled people do travel on their own sometimes in this day and age

Not at all - however neither am I reckless and should I choose to travel by a method that could possibly place me in any danger I would choose not to do so. Rather than accept the shortcomings of a system that was never designed to ‘modern standards’ it has become an expectation that we must spend incalculable amounts to make it so.

 

[retro.kid]

Planning on popping down this evening after work and do a loop on the Inner getting off at each station and catching the next car behind and photographing as many sets as i can - not seen any of the new stock yet, so looking forward to it.

 

[DanNCL]

Of course they were. There was no way the Subway could be made compliant without rebuilding it from the ground up. Faced with shutting it down as an alternative they accepted what you would describe as token gestures over the next 30 years or so. However the design of the trains were altered to accommodate wheelchairs - as long as they only want to go between Govan and St Enoch. Of the remainder it would be cheaper for them to provide an accessible taxi than modify the remainder at a massive cost to the public purse.

What has any of this got to do with automated announcements? Nobody is suggesting rebuilding any of the stations. What I am saying is that anything they can reasonably comply with they should comply with and automated announcements on brand new trains is one of them.

And my point about the ORR being aware was specifically if they were aware that the new units were running without audio announcements.

 

[Buzby]

And my point about the ORR being aware was specifically if they were aware that the new units were running without audio announcements.

They’ve got bigger problems to deal with. On my last 10 journey’s on ScotRail only 4 (less than half) had announcements, of the remaining 6 only 2 had working digital in-carriage displays, leaving passengers to use their intelligence to get off at their destinations. These were on the newly opened electrified Barrhead line, but the ticket inspector mentioned something about the ‘codes being wrong’.

 

[DanNCL]

They’ve got bigger problems to deal with. On my last 10 journey’s on ScotRail only 4 (less than half) had announcements, of the remaining 6 only 2 had working digital in-carriage displays, leaving passengers to use their intelligence to get off at their destinations. These were on the newly opened electrified Barrhead line, but the ticket inspector mentioned something about the ‘codes being wrong’.

It’s a pretty big issue legally. If someone were to take action against SPT over it they’d likely be successful.

Just because you don’t see the benefit of audio announcements doesn’t mean they’re not needed. I also don’t really benefit from automated announcements but I recognise how important they are to others, especially those who have eyesight problems.

Automated systems not always working is a fact of life, though granted the frequency you suggest it happens on your line is unreasonable. Not having the system in the first place when it’s a legal requirement however, it’s completely unacceptable. Not compliant with RVAR (Rail Vehicles Accessibility Regulations) and would also fall foul of the Equalities Act. The Equalities Act states that ‘reasonable adjustments’ must be made. Audio announcements on new trains that have speakers already fitted is a reasonable expectation. Rebuilding every subway station to fit in a lift however, wouldn’t be.

 

[retro.kid]

Planning on popping down this evening after work and do a loop on the Inner getting off at each station and catching the next car behind and photographing as many sets as i can - not seen any of the new stock yet, so looking forward to it.

On off chance anyone interested..

Outer circle was suspended due to a breakdown - assuming 301 was the culprit as it eventually creeped past me at Shields Road along the outer circle at minimal speed with multiple seat cushions lifted up.

Inner circle from 18:15 to 20:15:

• 307
• 119 / 203 / 103
• 112 / 202 / 105
• 304
• 132 / 118 / 130
• 124 / 205 / 125

• Parked up at Hillhead Outer: 128 / 107 / 111
• Parked up at Kelvinhall Outer: 133 / 206 / 121
• Parked up at Govan Outer: 110 / ??? / 117 <- middle car never had a fleet number visible. Doh.

Good to get a ride on the new stock. Very bright and spacious - but the main attraction was the G2 stock. Just as i remember it as a little boy. Fun couple of hours.

 

[Mr T]

204 was in the middle of 110 & 117 last week. The number is at the top of the car near the end doors, if that makes any sense.

I didn't see the 'set' with 105 in last week - annoying it's been out today as that was one of my last two for sight! Doubt I'll get it now with being some 300 miles away.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cowley]

I think with some of the above posts regarding disability access, announcements etc. it would be helpful if people could debate with each other with a bit of understanding please (and also not go too far off topic ).

 

[retro.kid]

204 was in the middle of 110 & 117 last week. The number is at the top of the car near the end doors, if that makes any sense.

I didn't see the 'set' with 105 in last week - annoying it's been out today as that was one of my last two for sight! Doubt I'll get it now with being some 300 miles away.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks. I was looking for the number under the cab window - never thought to look up. Will have a look at photos when i download them tomorrow

 

[trei2k]

There was a new unit in service last night around 21:00 on the inner circle. It was nice to see one out so late, although the white is beginning to already get a little filthy!

 

[Taunton]

The generally inaccessible nature of the stations isn’t a reason for the trains not to be compliant.

What a squandering of public money ... one would hope that the money (mine as much as anyone's) would be spent where it can actually be made use of.

 

[alxndr]

What a squandering of public money ... one would hope that the money (mine as much as anyone's) would be spent where it can actually be made use of.

Making trains more accessible by using the speakers that are already fitted to them is a waste of public money? Really? Don’t people with disabilities, who are proportionally more likely to need public transport to get around independently get to have a say in public money being used in a way that benefits them?

What would be a waste is to spend the cash to fit the trains with speakers that are then never used.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Are those of us with disabilities that might appreciate a very basic announcement informing us that the next station is partick not worthy of consideration? Perhaps you'd like all disabled people deported to Rwanda along with all those nasty asylum seekers and then you wouldn't have to worry about us anymore and suffer your trains being delayed as we are helped on and off or staff provided at stations to help us or benefits paid to us, that's how this thread is making me feel. Furthermore Glasgow does have an increasing number of visitors for its culture and shopping and nightlife plus the usual everyday routine of visiting friends and family, those in hospital plus of course being a jumping off point for people visiting the West Highlands and an overspill from Edinburgh during the high season. They might appreciate an announcement as well but perhaps if it's couched in the manner of tourists might a preciate it then the money would be worth spending rather than on awful scummy crummy disabled people

 

[trei2k]

The last new unit I was on, the driver was making manual announcements (as historically undertaken). The screen reverts to something like "Announcement in progress".

 

[hexagon789]

The last new unit I was on, the driver was making manual announcements (as historically undertaken). The screen reverts to something like "Announcement in progress".

That has happened on each journey I've made on the new stock, as well as the Met Camms.

The Met Camms running being so noisy though, you can't really hear them.

 

[DanNCL]

What a squandering of public money ... one would hope that the money (mine as much as anyone's) would be spent where it can actually be made use of.

It’s not squandering money at all. Announcements are a legal requirement and it’s not unreasonable to implement them. The speakers are already there and if they don’t want to pay a Voiceover artist for the recordings they can record the announcements themselves on a mobile phone, might not sound the best but it would do the job. Really is simple and there really isn’t any valid reason for the new fleet not to have automated announcements. Everyone else has to do it, there’s no valid reason why SPT should be exempt.

The last new unit I was on, the driver was making manual announcements (as historically undertaken). The screen reverts to something like "Announcement in progress".

That has happened on each journey I've made on the new stock, as well as the Met Camms.

The Met Camms running being so noisy though, you can't really hear them.

That’s not been my experience on all bar one of the Stadler units I’ve taken on the Subway. With the exception of the very first one I took, announcements of any kind have been absent.

 

[hexagon789]

That’s not been my experience on all bar one of the Stadler units I’ve taken on the Subway. With the exception of the very first one I took, announcements of any kind have been absent

In each case they were quiet, but present.

 

[Hondaboy91]

It’s the drivers responsibility to make pa announcements on the new stock as the capability for automatic announcements is built in but not possible until the new control room is in operation
Unfortunately some new trains have non working radio units and PA systems along with various other faults
Drivers are not happy and have already boycotted 2 trains due to faults however are not being backed in their concerns by the union or management!

 

[The Puddock]

It’s the drivers responsibility to make pa announcements on the new stock as the capability for automatic announcements is built in but not possible until the new control room is in operation
Unfortunately some new trains have non working radio units and PA systems along with various other faults
Drivers are not happy and have already boycotted 2 trains due to faults however are not being backed in their concerns by the union or management!

I can totally understand why being told to take a train without a working radio or PA would be a serious safety concern for a driver; I think most people would agree with that. Out of interest, which union represents the Subway drivers? Have they just given up in the face of the system becoming ‘staffless’ imminently, and has SPT offered the drivers mutually agreeable replacement roles when the time comes?

 

[Blindtraveler]

When does the new control room go live and why does the presence or otherwise over control room affect automated announcements on the trains where the system is surely built in?

 

[Hondaboy91]

I can totally understand why being told to take a train without a working radio or PA would be a serious safety concern for a driver; I think most people would agree with that. Out of interest, which union represents the Subway drivers? Have they just given up in the face of the system becoming ‘staffless’ imminently, and has SPT offered the drivers mutually agreeable replacement roles when the time comes?

Union is unite
Spt management have had no discussions with staff despite publicly announcing going driverless in 2025

When does the new control room go live and why does the presence or otherwise over control room affect automated announcements on the trains where the system is surely built in?

New control building should be ready end of this year however could be delayed until next year
The automated announcement system relies on communication with new software which will be in new control room

 

[Russel]

How many new trains are in service now and how many old trains remain?

 

[Mothball]

In Service at various points today:
G2 - 101, 103, 106, 107, 111, 118-121, 124-126, 128, 130, 132, 133, 201, 203, 205, 206, 207.

G3 - 301, 302, 304, 308, 309.

The depot at the end of the test track was devoid of all Gen 2 stock featured in the SPT scrapping video. There is a few unoficial lists of withdrawn/scrapped stock on social media but photographic evidence of 102/131 being scrapped exist.

 

[hexagon789]

In Service at various points today:
G2 - 101, 103, 106, 107, 111, 118-121, 124-126, 128, 130, 132, 133, 201, 203, 205, 206, 207.

G3 - 301, 302, 304, 308, 309.

The depot at the end of the test track was devoid of all Gen 2 stock featured in the SPT scrapping video. There is a few unoficial lists of withdrawn/scrapped stock on social media but photographic evidence of 102/131 being scrapped exist.

125 and 117 are also stood down having been long-term Out of Service.

117 last out March 2023 - control fault
125 last out June 2023 - brake resistor fault

Neither are planned to return to traffic.

 

[Mothball]

125 and 117 are also stood down having been long-term Out of Service.

117 last out March 2023 - control fault
125 last out June 2023 - brake resistor fault

Neither are planned to return to traffic.

I seem to have ended up with 125 operating on the Inner today with 205/124. Hopefully I've not muddled my number up

 

[hexagon789]

I seem to have ended up with 125 operating on the Inner today with 205/124. Hopefully I've not muddled my number up

Could just as easily be SPT who have their numbers wrong!