Glossop - Windermere, Manchester traincard to Wigan?

[windswept]

I will be travelling from Glossop to Windermere, and have a Greater Manchester traincard season ticket which http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/promotions/GMPTE-Traincard.pdf suggests will be valid as far as Wigan, where my train stops. I take it I thus only need buy a Wigan-Windermere ticket? Might I encounter any problems with TPExpress staff on the Piccadilly - Wigan part of my journey?

 

[Chapeltom]

That will be no problem at all.

As the traincard is a season-ticket the train doesn't even have to stop at Wigan if it goes via it (all trains from Manchester up the West Coast that go via Wigan stop there as far as I'm aware anyway!!)

 

[185143]

17:15 from Manchester definitely doesn't stop at Wigan. I found that the hard way! Traincard is a PTE product though which I believe means the train has to stop at Wigan but there are only about 2/3 trains that don't.

 

[Chapeltom]

17:15 from Manchester definitely doesn't stop at Wigan. I found that the hard way! Traincard is a PTE product though which I believe means the train has to stop at Wigan but there are only about 2/3 trains that don't.

You may be correct, a PTE product even as a season-ticket seems to work differently to other seasons.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Splitting with a season-ticket and ordinary ticket means a train doesn't have to call at the split point.

A PTE product is not a season ticket for the purposes of condition 19c.

 

[Starmill]

A PTE product is not a season ticket for the purposes of condition 19c.

Are we quite sure a Traincard is captured by the 19c definition of a PTE product? As far as I know, they are not promoted or sold by System One which handles the sale of TfGM's season tickets, and they are valid at four stations which are not administered by a PTE. IIRC, West Yorkshire seasons that include zone 6 or 7 are not treated as PTE products.

 

[Merseysider]

Are we quite sure a Traincard is captured by the 19c definition of a PTE product? As far as I know, they are not promoted or sold by System One which handles the sale of TfGM's season tickets, and they are valid at four stations which are not administered by a PTE. IIRC, West Yorkshire seasons that include zone 6 or 7 are not treated as PTE products.

Paragraph 2.9 in this TFGM document refers to Traincards being included within the definition of PTE products.
Additionally, I think it'd be hard to justify anything other than point to point/BZ tickets as a season for the purposes of 19c.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Are we quite sure a Traincard is captured by the 19c definition of a PTE product? As far as I know, they are not promoted or sold by System One which handles the sale of TfGM's season tickets, and they are valid at four stations which are not administered by a PTE. IIRC, West Yorkshire seasons that include zone 6 or 7 are not treated as PTE products.

You'll be surprised what the system one website doesn't promote (it's aimed primarily at bus travel). The "What is System One" webpage says....

What is System One?

System One offers DaySavers and Bus Savers for unlimited use on any bus in Greater Manchester. You can now buy the 'E-Bus Saver' range here.

System One Travel Limited (GMTL) is co-owned by Greater Manchester’s private bus, rail and tram operators and Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM).

System One offers a choice of one day, 7 day, 28 day or annual travelcards. All are featured on this website and we've indicated where you can buy them. Just click ‘Find a travelcard’ for all the info you need.

You might note that all the tickets they offer have bus validity.

Anyway, the GM Traincard is in the PTE section of iKB and it doesn't have the usual season ticket period of validities (one week, one month and one year only).

The GM Countycard is also valid at some stations outside of the TfGM area (the same rail validity as the Traincard), is in the PTE section of iKB, and is valid for periods of one week, one month and one year.

 

[TUC]

West Yorkshire seasons that include zone 6 or 7 are not treated as PTE products.

Although that hasn't stopped Northern Rail from treating stations within zones 6 and 7 as being caught by their off-peak restrictions that are meant to just cover fares set by West Yorkshire PTE.

 

[Starmill]

Paragraph 2.9 in this TFGM document refers to Traincards being included within the definition of PTE products.
Additionally, I think it'd be hard to justify anything other than point to point/BZ tickets as a season for the purposes of 19c.

BZ day tickets are not captured by the definition of 19c for a certainty. Also note that I give an example of such a ticket in my post! Why wouldn't an ordinary travelcard season be acceptable either?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although that hasn't stopped Northern Rail from treating stations within zones 6 and 7 as being caught by their off-peak restrictions that are meant to just cover fares set by West Yorkshire PTE.

Oh, a TOC wants to have it all their own way? Never heard that before have we!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You'll be surprised what the system one website doesn't promote (it's aimed primarily at bus travel). The "What is System One" webpage says....



You might note that all the tickets they offer have bus validity.

I'm quite aware of that! But with the lack of any other source of such information... A Traincard is a relatively little known about product all together, as far as I can tell.

 

[island]

Boundary zone tickets in combination with day Travelcards exist in a slight lacuna, in that they do not meet any of the three circumstances for travelling with more than one ticket. But they work quite well as-is.

On the original question, it is necessary that the train stop at Wigan for the proposed ticket combination.

 

[Merseysider]

Boundary zone tickets in combination with day Travelcards exist in a slight lacuna, in that they do not meet any of the three circumstances for travelling with more than one ticket. But they work quite well as-is.

I thought BZ season tickets met 19c, eg if a passenger had an annual BZ(whichever zones) ticket to Milton Keynes Central and then a ticket from MKC to Rugby, that would be okay on trains that didn't stop at MKC - is that not the case?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There is some confusion here. Boundary Zone fares (BZ fares) and Travelcards are not the same thing.

Boundary Zone fares have an origin or destination of a Boundary Zone and are extensions of Day and Season Travelcards. A combination of Boundary Zone fare and Travelcard act as one ticket, they do not need to follow Condition 19c.

Weekly and longer Travelcards are considered Season Tickets for the purposes of Condition 19c.

 

[bb21]

I don't think Boundary Zone fares are supposed to exist as seasons so there is no question regarding its relationship with Condition 19. I am open to corrections though.

 

[Merseysider]

There is some confusion here. Boundary Zone fares (BZ fares) and Travelcards are not the same thing.

Boundary Zone fares have an origin or destination of a Boundary Zone and are extensions of Day and Season Travelcards. A combination of Boundary Zone fare and Travelcard act as one ticket, they do not need to follow Condition 19c.

Weekly and longer Travelcards are considered Season Tickets for the purposes of Condition 19c.

I must have been mixing Boundary Zone tickets and Travelcards up, oops.

 

[MikeWh]

I don't think Boundary Zone fares are supposed to exist as seasons so there is no question regarding its relationship with Condition 19. I am open to corrections though.

They don't now AFAIK. A BZ ticket (single or return) is treated as an excess to the travelcard it accompanies, therefore the two together are treated as one ticket.

London Period Travelcards have always been treated as season tickets and not issued by a PTE.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't think Boundary Zone fares are supposed to exist as seasons so there is no question regarding its relationship with Condition 19. I am open to corrections though.

You cannot get a 'Boundary Zone' season ticket, they do not exist, however, Boundary Zone singles and returns can be used with Day Travelcards, so it is important to note that a combination is treated as one ticket and does not need to adhere to Condition 19.

 

[Starmill]

London Period Travelcards have always been treated as season tickets and not issued by a PTE.

This is a whole separate debate, but I have always thought this rather unjustified. It's a bit like Metro's leaflet that says that condition 19c only applies to Northern services. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they want to have it all their own way, except in London where they aren't allowed.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Wasn't it London Underground/London Transport that introduced the Travelcard idea first, with it later being amended to include Trains?