Gner & gnwr

[sprinterguy]

Presumably to turn a profit.

And quite right too.

Indeed, you’re definitely right there, it’s their motives behind how they make that profit that’s the concern; the main point to ask is whether their plans to do this have been through careful analysis of untapped markets available from serving previously unconnected destinations, or through the undercutting of current operators and pilfering their custom between locations of already proven demand, with some obscure final destinations thrown in for good measure.

EDIT: Yep, what Greenback said, he got there before me: I said it in an extremely long-winded way, apologies, but that's the point I was getting at.

 

[ainsworth74]

I just may be a moody git but shouldn't companies be looking away from how to just add random places to London and primarily make money through revenue abstraction.

Unless were both moody gits (which I suppose is possible ) I would agree with you, many of the routes have merit but they do seem like they're going to rely heavily on making money on already lucrative routes from London rather than trying to create new markets.

I think their proposed Trans-Pennine route could be interesting in that regard firstly because it would be the first Open Access route that doesn't call at London and Secondly it doesn't use established routes too heavily (apart from Hull to Leeds of course).

Still I wish them the best of luck as I for one would love to be able to travel to Leeds from Hull using something other than an overcrowded 170 (nothing against 17xs just that their not long enough for the demand).

 

[me123]

I have to question whether or not going all the way to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast is going to be all that profitable. Unless their fares were excellent, I'd just stick with Virgin Trains to be honest. Northern have an hourly service (or there abouts) over the core section of the route. And I doubt they'd get all that many passengers up at Wigton. Why not just run to Maryport, Workington, Whitehaven or Barrow? And their Transpennine route seems to pretty much shadow the existing operation. Then they're taking on the well-established East Coast market and sending trains the longer way via the WCML.

It just doesn't seem particularly sensible.

On the other hand, Blackpool North and Cleethorpes look like good destinations.

 

[Lampshade]

One thing people are missing is that Lancaster/Preston has virtually no direct services to the Trent Valley or Cheshire, the GNWR services will provide these. I do agree with what people are saying about the Huddersfield/Leeds services though, there's no reason other than revenue abstraction to start them at Leeds. Also the Bradford services, as far as Victoria it's just stealing passengers from Northern. There are also way too many stops on the Cumbrian Coast.

 

[WillPS]

Isn't the whole thing with Open Access operators revenue that they offer a good direct service in exchange for extracting revenue from elsewhere?

Grand Central doesn't exist for Sunderland, it exists for York.

 

[tbtc]

the Huddersfield to Leeds service provides relief from often crowded Transpennine Express services

I'd much rather resources were used on existing services where there is clear demand than we waste trains/ paths on "fantasy" routes/ ORCATS raids

 

[GNERman]

Isn't the whole thing with Open Access operators revenue that they offer a good direct service in exchange for extracting revenue from elsewhere?

Grand Central doesn't exist for Sunderland, it exists for York.

Really? Have YOU tried to get on 1A61 at York on a weekday?

 

[LE Greys]

I have to question whether or not going all the way to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast is going to be all that profitable. Unless their fares were excellent, I'd just stick with Virgin Trains to be honest. Northern have an hourly service (or there abouts) over the core section of the route. And I doubt they'd get all that many passengers up at Wigton. Why not just run to Maryport, Workington, Whitehaven or Barrow? And their Transpennine route seems to pretty much shadow the existing operation. Then they're taking on the well-established East Coast market and sending trains the longer way via the WCML.

It just doesn't seem particularly sensible.

On the other hand, Blackpool North and Cleethorpes look like good destinations.

I suppose it does abstract some traffic from the Northern services, and the link to Carnforth looks like a good idea (considering there seems to be zero chance of reopening the main line platforms). The various destinations further south certainly look like reasonable destinations, especially Blackpool North, while the others look like an attempt to gain as many paths as possible while trying to tap the same market as Grand Central, meaning that it is probably not sustainable. It's possible we will only see the Blackpool and Cumberland Coast routes open with GNWR. On the GNER side, Cleethorpes looks the most likely to open. The other routes are possible, but the others might have the same problems as those on the west. As a result, we will probably only get the Cleethorpes route.

However, it would be great to see Apple Green return (just on a personal note).

 

[Crossforth]

However, it would be great to see Apple Green return (just on a personal note).

I must agree with you there

I do think it a bit weird to see open access coming to Leeds via the back of beyond

 

[Lampshade]

I think they've missed a golden opportunity. If the Todmorden Curve was more of a reality there could be an East Lancs - Euston service via Rochdale and Manchester Victoria like the old FNW service.

Imagine:

Burnley Manchester Road
Todmorden
Rochdale
Manchester Victoria
Stockport
Alderley Edge
Tamworth Low Level
Nuneaton
Kings Langley Parkway
London Euston

Or maybe the Blackpool North service could run fast to Burnley and down from there although that'll push the journey times up considerably.

EDIT: Even better would be a link from the North West to the East Midlands such as:

Blackpool North/maybe South > Preston > Blackburn > Burnley Manchester Road > Halifax > Wakefield Kirkgate > Sheffield > Derby > East Midlands Parkway > Then find somewhere to terminate

 

[Bittern]

for some reason i prefer the old GNER logo rather than the new one wich is green

http://www.alliancerail.co.uk/

I have to admit, I'm not a fan of the Green. I've associated GNER with the dark blue and big gold letters.

 

[fhs man 2]

i personally dont think its a good idea to expand to fast why start with 2 companys that is just asking for trouble they are just starting out there puting alot of money into something this could flop just like that and there also puting the name GNER at risk this name has a reputation of good they could destroy it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have to admit, I'm not a fan of the Green. I've associated GNER with the dark blue and big gold letters.

for some reason i thought it looked cool that way but if they kept it might be bad for buisness because its old

 

[Aictos]

I think they've missed a golden opportunity. If the Todmorden Curve was more of a reality there could be an East Lancs - Euston service via Rochdale and Manchester Victoria like the old FNW service.



EDIT: Even better would be a link from the North West to the East Midlands such as:

Blackpool North/maybe South > Preston > Blackburn > Burnley Manchester Road > Halifax > Wakefield Kirkgate > Sheffield > Derby > East Midlands Parkway > Then find somewhere to terminate

Nah, you want Blackpool North > Preston > Blackburn > Halifax > Wakefield Kirkgate > Sheffield > Leicester > Peterborough > Ely > Norwich > Great Yarmouth!

 

[EWS 58038]

but (for obvious business reasons) wasn't forthcoming who they were for- perhaps?

Has to be Grand Central as they were the first to order "Polaris" sets from their daughter company CSRE. It's only common sense Ian now goes for exactly the same train as it is his development. I think there have been some firm "back alley" negotiations between Ian and Grand Central when he left the company.

And as long as they can exist next to each other I can't be bothered... nor will my camera.