Go Cornwall Bus

[Goldfish62]

Are there many instances when TfL only receive one bid for a conrtract? If so, is the scoring as robust as usual, or is the preference to award a contract rather than not?

In such instances it's most likely to be the incumbent operator. I'm honestly not sure what would happen if there was only one bid and it was unsatisfactory even after pre-award negotiation.

All the tender results are published on the TfL website. Number of bidders, highest, lowest and awarded prices, and reason if not awarded to the lowest bidder.

 

[Stephen1001]

I'm honestly not sure what would happen if there was only one bid and it was unsatisfactory even after pre-award negotiation.

Back when East Thames Buses existed as an operator of last resort, John Aldridge mentioned in a Buses magazine column that one contract was awarded to them over a bid by a commercial operator as the other operator's bid was deemed too low to be sustainable. Obviously this couldn't happen now East Thames Buses has been sold, but presumably there's a process in place for a similar situation or we'd probably have heard about the consequences by now!

 

[Nickincornwall]

Yours is the best post I've seen on here since I started the thread, and I hope doesn't get drowned out by the usual voices, even my own! I think Cornwall Council have Covid-19 to thank, in a backhanded way, from being subjected to a lot more opprobrium about how this has all been handled.

I think we need to get a few things straight.

Saturday services were cut, some like the 25 wrecklessly to cut the subsidy payable to kernow to within the budget set to extend existing contracts. Sone servive cuts were ok because they reflected passenger levels particularly on services wrecked by re routing like the 30, the 25 however wrecked an overall frequency pattern confusing passengers.

Kernow obviously failed to be as imaginative as go ahead. There is an assumption that Plymouth Citybus knowledge is not as good as kernow, a review of those in charge would reveal that if anything knowledgevis superior, i met Richard Stevens for example in 2004 when he waals in charge of operations based in truro at first western national, that alone should tell you he knows the patch
Obviously as agency drivers are never good but lets not fool ourselves Firsrlt do thr same internally and have sent drivers and buses to Hinckley Point.
One thing that the forum says is that their buses are clean, cleaner rhan Kernow and this has been an ongoing complaint with First in Cornwall.
Go cornwall bus are still inducting drivers obviously this was interrupted by the virus but here in Cornwall the drivers i have spoken to are full of praise for their top management and one even said to me thar go ahead use Plymouth as an example of how to run, this takes over from Brighton and Hove.
As for using First Kernow as a sub contractor, you have to have a meeting of the minds of both parties to enable that to happen. Regrettably there maybe a problem between one at the top of the kernow tree preventing this. As i have said before a basic issue with first is the arrogance level. First kernow announced their 20 20 vision based on a commercial network, much of that needed to depend on the tourist season and in 2020 at best this wil be restricted if it happens at all and i think as a result staff at first kernow need reassuring as to how this will affect kernows future

 

[Busaholic]

I think we need to get a few things straight.

Saturday services were cut, some like the 25 wrecklessly to cut the subsidy payable to kernow to within the budget set to extend existing contracts. Sone servive cuts were ok because they reflected passenger levels particularly on services wrecked by re routing like the 30, the 25 however wrecked an overall frequency pattern confusing passengers.

Kernow obviously failed to be as imaginative as go ahead. There is an assumption that Plymouth Citybus knowledge is not as good as kernow, a review of those in charge would reveal that if anything knowledgevis superior, i met Richard Stevens for example in 2004 when he waals in charge of operations based in truro at first western national, that alone should tell you he knows the patch
Obviously as agency drivers are never good but lets not fool ourselves Firsrlt do thr same internally and have sent drivers and buses to Hinckley Point.
One thing that the forum says is that their buses are clean, cleaner rhan Kernow and this has been an ongoing complaint with First in Cornwall.
Go cornwall bus are still inducting drivers obviously this was interrupted by the virus but here in Cornwall the drivers i have spoken to are full of praise for their top management and one even said to me thar go ahead use Plymouth as an example of how to run, this takes over from Brighton and Hove.
As for using First Kernow as a sub contractor, you have to have a meeting of the minds of both parties to enable that to happen. Regrettably there maybe a problem between one at the top of the kernow tree preventing this. As i have said before a basic issue with first is the arrogance level. First kernow announced their 20 20 vision based on a commercial network, much of that needed to depend on the tourist season and in 2020 at best this wil be restricted if it happens at all and i think as a result staff at first kernow need reassuring as to how this will affect kernows future

I'm genuinely not biased either towards or against First Kernow or Go Cornwall Bus in any way. I no more know any of the people involved than I do anyone at all on this forum. My interest is as a local resident and taxpayer who happens to have been interested in buses all my life i.e. at least seventy years now, although I admit my main interest has always been in the great London Transport, as I grew up in the Big Wen. On a national level, my impression of Go Ahead would certainly be of a superior operator to First on the bus side, based on what I've read and observed over the last twenty years, but I have been impressed by what First Kernow has achieved over the last few years. Brighton and Oxford particularly, though, are very impressive Go Ahead areas, as is Metrobus in Crawley. My strictures are very much against Cornwall Council's part in all this, and I make no apologies for including Corserv as being 100% owned by Cornwall Council and NOT operated as a non-profit making company, unlike certain models adopted by other local councils. It is right that their actions be scrutinised by interested parties; it is a shame that so many local councillors are either ignorant of, or otherwise unprepared to, manage that scrutiny. My antennae tell me that this will get investigated further.

 

[richw]

I think we need to get a few things straight.

Saturday services were cut, some like the 25 wrecklessly to cut the subsidy payable to kernow to within the budget set to extend existing contracts. Sone servive cuts were ok because they reflected passenger levels particularly on services wrecked by re routing like the 30, the 25 however wrecked an overall frequency pattern confusing passengers.

Kernow obviously failed to be as imaginative as go ahead. There is an assumption that Plymouth Citybus knowledge is not as good as kernow, a review of those in charge would reveal that if anything knowledgevis superior, i met Richard Stevens for example in 2004 when he waals in charge of operations based in truro at first western national, that alone should tell you he knows the patch
Obviously as agency drivers are never good but lets not fool ourselves Firsrlt do thr same internally and have sent drivers and buses to Hinckley Point.
One thing that the forum says is that their buses are clean, cleaner rhan Kernow and this has been an ongoing complaint with First in Cornwall.
Go cornwall bus are still inducting drivers obviously this was interrupted by the virus but here in Cornwall the drivers i have spoken to are full of praise for their top management and one even said to me thar go ahead use Plymouth as an example of how to run, this takes over from Brighton and Hove.
As for using First Kernow as a sub contractor, you have to have a meeting of the minds of both parties to enable that to happen. Regrettably there maybe a problem between one at the top of the kernow tree preventing this. As i have said before a basic issue with first is the arrogance level. First kernow announced their 20 20 vision based on a commercial network, much of that needed to depend on the tourist season and in 2020 at best this wil be restricted if it happens at all and i think as a result staff at first kernow need reassuring as to how this will affect kernows future

Without bias, First Summercourt vehicles are clinically clean, and many passengers are picking up on this and passing comment. I can’t speak for other depots, although from Go Ahead drivers they are not permitted to clean or have and form of water run off at Newquay depot.
in the present situation Kernow have cleaners situated at each bus station, Go Ahead have no such provision.
This doesn’t mean their vehicles aren’t clean, internally I would say there is little difference in cleanliness standards.

 

[Nickincornwall]

I'm genuinely not biased either towards or against First Kernow or Go Cornwall Bus in any way. I no more know any of the people involved than I do anyone at all on this forum. My interest is as a local resident and taxpayer who happens to have been interested in buses all my life i.e. at least seventy years now, although I admit my main interest has always been in the great London Transport, as I grew up in the Big Wen. On a national level, my impression of Go Ahead would certainly be of a superior operator to First on the bus side, based on what I've read and observed over the last twenty years, but I have been impressed by what First Kernow has achieved over the last few years. Brighton and Oxford particularly, though, are very impressive Go Ahead areas, as is Metrobus in Crawley. My strictures are very much against Cornwall Council's part in all this, and I make no apologies for including Corserv as being 100% owned by Cornwall Council and NOT operated as a non-profit making company, unlike certain models adopted by other local councils. It is right that their actions be scrutinised by interested parties; it is a shame that so many local councillors are either ignorant of, or otherwise unprepared to, manage that scrutiny. My antennae tell me that this will get investigated further.

I doubt it should or could be investigated. The model is one of a partnership between the Council and Go Ahead which us essentially what the council wanted bit couldn't achieve with First as the biggest operator. Of course First upped their game by investing in an area where the numbers failed to stack up. One problem with first is the fluid nature of the long term prospects which are, we are going to sell buses, no we are not. It seems that plans at firstgroup are not plans merely thoughts. In my view this cost kernow the contract because the council would want to know who it would deal with at the end of eighty years. Now of course it is whether after covid 19 first can afford to carry what may return to being a money pit. The Cormac issue is to me a red herring, though it givrs the council control over depot and cleaning which is essential now

 

[Nickincornwall]

Without bias, First Summercourt vehicles are clinically clean, and many passengers are picking up on this and passing comment. I can’t speak for other depots, although from Go Ahead drivers they are not permitted to clean or have and form of water run off at Newquay depot.
in the present situation Kernow have cleaners situated at each bus station, Go Ahead have no such provision.
This doesn’t mean their vehicles aren’t clean, internally I would say there is little difference in cleanliness standards.

Richard i appreciate your loyalty to kernow though last time i saw one of the new E200 the basics even at the front of the vehicle was not good. What makes the difference is of course the starting position and Go Ahead are better at that. Of course the ideal would be for the operators to pool cleaning regimes in bus stations this would ensure common policies and economy of scale. Unfortunately i dont believe First would entertain a common approach, and i feel that is why first effectively are on a limb. Now in case you think i bias i hold shares in both go ahead and first, but i have severe reservations in firstgroup management and had it not been for me fighting cancer last year i would have gone to the agm in Aberdeen, a move i fully intend to do when i am able givrn the current lockdown because i believe the companies including kernow could be better than they are but there is just little vision in group at the moment and i fear the covid 19 crisis response from first will be typical cuts. Now however is the time for sone bold moves by every bus company in the world.

 

[Volvodart]

The Firstgroup AGM was not in Aberdeen last year.

 

[richw]

Richard i appreciate your loyalty to kernow though last time i saw one of the new E200 the basics even at the front of the vehicle was not good. What makes the difference is of course the starting position and Go Ahead are better at that. Of course the ideal would be for the operators to pool cleaning regimes in bus stations this would ensure common policies and economy of scale. Unfortunately i dont believe First would entertain a common approach, and i feel that is why first effectively are on a limb. Now in case you think i bias i hold shares in both go ahead and first, but i have severe reservations in firstgroup management and had it not been for me fighting cancer last year i would have gone to the agm in Aberdeen, a move i fully intend to do when i am able givrn the current lockdown because i believe the companies including kernow could be better than they are but there is just little vision in group at the moment and i fear the covid 19 crisis response from first will be typical cuts. Now however is the time for sone bold moves by every bus company in the world.

Kernows current management is the best I’ve worked for anywhere. I suspect you refer on a national level for which I couldn’t comment as it’s not something I’ve really looked at.
FSW are in a position where they’ve hired 50 vehicles and drivers to SPS during this current period of Covid which is generating a significant income other Opcos could only dream of at present, which is going towards keeping FSW sustainable.
My loyalty exists because as an employee I’ve been made to feel valued By current Local management.

 

[Yarp1]

A while back FK asked cc about starting a joint Cornwall ticket system but council said, "No"
I dont personally have the proof of this but I know it exists. So when passengers complain about having to use two different companys and paying twice, the council is to blame. I have had several passengers who have the app on their phone and ask why its called travel for Cornwall when it doesn't work on ALL cornish buses
If cc had agreed on a joint ticket then I think a few of the future problems wouldnt arise like they will

 

[richw]

A while back FK asked cc about starting a joint Cornwall ticket system but council said, "No"
I dont personally have the proof of this but I know it exists. So when passengers complain about having to use two different companys and paying twice, the council is to blame. I have had several passengers who have the app on their phone and ask why its called travel for Cornwall when it doesn't work on ALL cornish buses
If cc had agreed on a joint ticket then I think a few of the future problems wouldnt arise like they will

FK and pcb had discussed a joint ticketing scheme that CC rejected as they claimed had their own CC ticket coming soon... but they’ve never held discussions with any operator about this ticket!

 

[Busaholic]

FK and pcb had discussed a joint ticketing scheme that CC rejected as they claimed had their own CC ticket coming soon... but they’ve never held discussions with any operator about this ticket!

CC obviously wish to be the puppetmasters, to the detriment of the local bus passengers, particularly the paying ones. This is going far worse than even I feared, and it can't all be blamed on you-know-what.

 

[richw]

CC obviously wish to be the puppetmasters, to the detriment of the local bus passengers, particularly the paying ones. This is going far worse than even I feared, and it can't all be blamed on you-know-what.

There are so many little bits that make me think what we’re CC thinking or where is the logic. Take a Sunday on the 24, Fk first service is commercial from Par to Meva, TfC run fowey to par then run express back to st Austell station, and FK commence the full route at Par. There is a reverse Of this journey On a Sunday evening. Express st Austell to par then onward to Fowey, whilst Kernow do full route meva to Par.

 

[83G/84D]

Two former London E400's are now at the Newquay base, one operating on service 85 today.

 

[MotCO]

Two former London E400's are now at the Newquay base, one operating on service 85 today.

In full TfL livery or repainted and refurbished?

 

[83G/84D]

In full TfL livery or repainted and refurbished?

Transport for Cornwall (TfC) branded and retaining both doors. I have not seen the interiors so don't know if they have been refurbished. One of the ex First Kernow E200MMC's is also nearly ready for service having been repainted.

 

[Goldfish62]

Transport for Cornwall (TfC) branded and retaining both doors. I have not seen the interiors so don't know if they have been refurbished. One of the ex First Kernow E200MMC's is also nearly ready for service having been repainted.

Is the TfC/PCB red the same shade as London bus red?

 

[83G/84D]

Is the TfC/PCB red the same shade as London bus red?

No idea however when the last batch of ex London E400's arrived for PCB some were repainted but others were not. It's not easy to tell them apart unless you look closely.

 

[carlberry]

No idea however when the last batch of ex London E400's arrived for PCB some were repainted but others were not. It's not easy to tell them apart unless you look closely.

I now have an image of somebody from the council going around Cornwall this summer checking each contracted vehicle with a colour swab to ensure it's TfC red and not TfL red!

 

[83G/84D]

I now have an image of somebody from the council going around Cornwall this summer checking each contracted vehicle with a colour swab to ensure it's TfC red and not TfL red!

The OTS shade of red looks lighter than the red carried by the TfC E200's, they are ex London as well!

 

[MotCO]

I now have an image of somebody from the council going around Cornwall this summer checking each contracted vehicle with a colour swab to ensure it's TfC red and not TfL red!

The tell-tale signs will be the ads for Oyster and the LT Roundel

 

[83G/84D]

A "Go Cornwall" branded Dart was seen going east past St Erth railway station on the A30 at 1525hrs this afternoon. It didn't continue on the A30 so unsure where it was going.

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe running dead to St Ives for the 16/16A?

 

[83G/84D]

Possibly, yes. Without knowing the running boards I don't know what if any dead running there is involved on the routes. First one I have seen down here since TfC started in late March!

 

[Goldfish62]

Possibly, yes. Without knowing the running boards I don't know what if any dead running there is involved on the routes. First one I have seen down here since TfC started in late March!

Yes, there's been an ex London one on the 16 this week so far. First dual door bus on the 16 ever??

 

[83G/84D]

Yes, there's been an ex London one on the 16 this week so far. First dual door bus on the 16 ever??

Not a dual door Dart but a E200 I presume?

 

[Goldfish62]

Not a dual door Dart but a E200 I presume?

Oops, yes, ignore what I said!!!!

 

[83G/84D]

The facilities at the Penzance TfC depot near Morrisons looked pretty poor when I went that way last week. Is it being used for drivers on breaks or just for overnight parking?

Ditto for the Scorrier depot, just some waste ground and a few vehicles parked up. What do the drivers do for toilets, meals, drinks breaks etc?

 

[Busaholic]

Possibly, yes. Without knowing the running boards I don't know what if any dead running there is involved on the routes. First one I have seen down here since TfC started in late March!

Strangely, I've seen far more 16/16As than any other route than the A17 these last four weeks. It's U4s I don't get to see, even though I've been through Goldsithney and Marazion a few times. None of the recent 16/As have had a single passenger on board, bar one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The facilities at the Penzance TfC depot near Morrisons looked pretty poor when I went that way last week. Is it being used for drivers on breaks or just for overnight parking?

Ditto for the Scorrier depot, just some waste ground and a few vehicles parked up. What do the drivers do for toilets, meals, drinks breaks etc?

To be fair, that's not much different from many outstations or small depots for drivers out and about during the day. I don't know how often Falmouth drivers go back to the depot there but it's not got a huge amount of facilities either.