Go Cornwall Bus

[SeveerYeliab]

I agree, it's not over till the fat lady sings so there is still hope, wouldn't surprise me if it's nearly 2021 before the deckers arrive anyway, doesn't sound like they were expected anytime soon

As with the E200 MMCs, I would more wait ages for high spec buses then basic ones arrive quickly, not saying that what was ordered but that what I wouldn't mind

I'm not sure I follow - the interior is to Go North East spec (GNE and EY being under the same overall management). Compare with the interior spec of the Streetdecks diverted away from GNE (to Oxford/Thames Travel)

https://www.oxford-chiltern-bus-page.co.uk/Pictures%20for%20114/J%20Cooper/TT-905-ld1-Cowley-depot-190720-J-Cooper.jpg

I'm not sure how a bus being delivered to GNE with a GNE spec interior is evidence that the order for Cornwall has been diverted?

We may yet see that the promised vehicles have been cancelled or diverted, but these GNE/EY deliveries are not proof of that.

Sorry I thought that if there were two companies that had the same spec interior they would probably have had a diverted order - Tfcs one split up. The north isn't my area of expertise. Tbh I think the cornwall will still get their new buses but they will have to wait a while for them as I do not think they are anywhere near top priority for GA atm

 

[Kernow Dave]

I was told a 20 plate e200mmc but not told the identity, I haven’t managed to work out which one has been AWOL.
The white ADL demonstrator (over 100k that cost them, self insurance with £1m excess)
Decker 470 That hit the canopy at scorrier is now withdrawn for spares which translates to written off to me.

Many thanks for the info, I had forgotten 470 and like you cannot see a missing e200MMC.

 

[83G/84D]

I was told a 20 plate e200mmc but not told the identity, I haven’t managed to work out which one has been AWOL.
The white ADL demonstrator (over 100k that cost them, self insurance with £1m excess)
Decker 470 That hit the canopy at scorrier is now withdrawn for spares which translates to written off to me.

The E200MMC could be 2216 (WA20 DVV).

 

[Busaholic]

Rather a lot of unsubstantiated rumour going round on this thread, some of it in ever-decreasing circles (prime example = whether new buses appearing elsewhere in Go-Ahead land were ever 'destined' for Cornwall.) Plans get changed all the time, even more so in these interesting times. Please don't discount Cornwall Council's role in any of this, either. They have plenty of history in string-pulling which, when it goes t*ts up, can get blamed on others, or denied altogether. Expect more examples of this shortly, with West Cornwall being very much in the spotlight, but I'm not directly referring to bus services or TfC.

 

[MB162435]

Sorry I thought that if there were two companies that had the same spec interior they would probably have had a diverted order - Tfcs one split up. The north isn't my area of expertise. Tbh I think the cornwall will still get their new buses but they will have to wait a while for them as I do not think they are anywhere near top priority for GA atm

That's OK, I know next to nothing about the North so I couldn't say if they were destined for Cornwall or not myself, as I've said I would certainly hope not but you never know, and certainly would be disappointing news if true

Let's hope the rumours are false

 

[fgwrich]

Are there parking restrictions on where TfC can park their vehicles in Truro? I only ask as I've just come across this picture of TfC / Travel Cornwall's RIL3157 Sporting an unfortunate badge of honour from the council.

Transport for Cornwall RIL3157 Truro

Explore Ryan Tranmer's 171759 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are there parking restrictions on where TfC can park their vehicles in Truro? I only ask as I've just come across this picture of TfC / Travel Cornwall's RIL3157 Sporting an unfortunately badge of honour from the council.

Transport for Cornwall RIL3157 Truro

Explore Ryan Tranmer's 171759 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

There is probably at Traffic Regulation Order that limits time at that stop. There was a story a fortnight ago about same sort of thing in Leicestershire with Centrebus having a vehicle ticketed.

 

[MB162435]

Are there parking restrictions on where TfC can park their vehicles in Truro? I only ask as I've just come across this picture of TfC / Travel Cornwall's RIL3157 Sporting an unfortunately badge of honour from the council.

Transport for Cornwall RIL3157 Truro

Explore Ryan Tranmer's 171759 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Believe TfC is meant to use the Bus Park for long lay overs, not meant to be at the bus station for too long either

 

[richw]

Are there parking restrictions on where TfC can park their vehicles in Truro? I only ask as I've just come across this picture of TfC / Travel Cornwall's RIL3157 Sporting an unfortunately badge of honour from the council.

Transport for Cornwall RIL3157 Truro

Explore Ryan Tranmer's 171759 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

There is probably at Traffic Regulation Order that limits time at that stop. There was a story a fortnight ago about same sort of thing in Leicestershire with Centrebus having a vehicle ticketed.

Believe TfC is meant to use the Bus Park for long lay overs, not meant to be at the bus station for too long either

Back to Basics! You’re not allowed to park on a bus stop, even a bus! A stop is only to be used for picking up and setting down of passengers. You may also wait until timetable departure on through services. Presumably the driver left the bus unattended, for more than 10 mins as the traffic warden will observe for a period of time before ticketing.

It’s also something the traffic commissioner views very dimly, and is something they hit hard for is blocking stops as it’s anti competitive (although in this case only that operator uses that stop I believe)

 

[Busaholic]

Back to Basics! You’re not allowed to park on a bus stop, even a bus! A stop is only to be used for picking up and setting down of passengers. You may also wait until timetable departure on through services. Presumably the driver left the bus unattended, for more than 10 mins as the traffic warden will observe for a period of time before ticketing.

It’s also something the traffic commissioner views very dimly, and is something they hit hard for is blocking stops as it’s anti competitive (although in this case only that operator uses that stop I believe)

Two minute maximum waiting, excluding the time to drop and pick up passengers, also excluding time for crew changes, which is where 'confusion' can reign, especially if a driver departs the bus before his/her oppo arrives. This is where the words BUS STOP appear within a box on the road surface, which is not the case with all bus stops of course: the words BUS STAND allow extra concessions to the bus and its driver, but no free-for-all!

 

[Dorsetbus]

The new deckers for cornwall are well documented as being e400 citys not mmc's so why people are getting excited about other parts of go heads deliveries. Plus go ahead have been known to spray vehicles for short periods just in order to help there brands. And with extended delivery times due to cornonvirus and wanting show some fleet cohesion they sprayed a couple of deckers. Now can people stop getting the knickers in a twist. Its a huge contract and a short time frame in order to make it work. I don't know if any of the big groups that could even attempt such a big project except for go ahead.

 

[MB162435]

The new deckers for cornwall are well documented as being e400 citys not mmc's so why people are getting excited about other parts of go heads deliveries. Plus go ahead have been known to spray vehicles for short periods just in order to help there brands. And with extended delivery times due to cornonvirus and wanting show some fleet cohesion they sprayed a couple of deckers. Now can people stop getting the knickers in a twist. Its a huge contract and a short time frame in order to make it work. I don't know if any of the big groups that could even attempt such a big project except for go ahead.

Was mentioned that the order was changed to MMCs, because I would think the City's wouldn't be too suited for life in Cornwall

But yes, People need to just wait and see as we all know how reliable kerbside gossip can be, and yes well done for Go-ahead and Co for bringing even more new buses, on top of Kernow's orders over the past 4 years

 

[baza585]

The new deckers for cornwall are well documented as being e400 citys not mmc's so why people are getting excited about other parts of go heads deliveries. Plus go ahead have been known to spray vehicles for short periods just in order to help there brands. And with extended delivery times due to cornonvirus and wanting show some fleet cohesion they sprayed a couple of deckers. Now can people stop getting the knickers in a twist. Its a huge contract and a short time frame in order to make it work. I don't know if any of the big groups that could even attempt such a big project except for go ahead.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but all the big groups would be quite capable of implementing a project like this. It appears from what I have seen that Go Ahead have bitten off more than they can chew (not helped by coronavirus, although it is giving them a ready made excuse) and are struggling operationally on the ground. No great surprise, they are making a complete mess of their East Anglia operations as well.

 

[Yarp1]

The new deckers for cornwall are well documented as being e400 citys not mmc's so why people are getting excited about other parts of go heads deliveries. Plus go ahead have been known to spray vehicles for short periods just in order to help there brands. And with extended delivery times due to cornonvirus and wanting show some fleet cohesion they sprayed a couple of deckers. Now can people stop getting the knickers in a twist. Its a huge contract and a short time frame in order to make it work. I don't know if any of the big groups that could even attempt such a big project except for go ahead.

Will stick my hands up if I have this wrong but .
The tenders had to be in by end of october 2019. The awards were given about 23 or 24th December 2019. So the 10 day cooling off or objections were over xmas and new years when when most office staff and such were off !! The full service should have started 1st april 2020. So 3 months from public knowledge of awards given. GA/pcb/tfc were not ready with only a handful of buses painted in tfc colours and that was only because they were new with maybe the odd one or two older buses painted in tfc colours. Yes carona came along and delayed things. During the 6 to 8 weeks of lockdown pcb/GA ran a limited service the same as FK. When full service started on 1st June they were still not ready in any sence. Drivers were route learning most of june. The duty boards were wrong and not amended for over a week.There are still no timetables at bus stops and only the covid 19 poster.
In short, from xmas until now they have had nearly 7 months. Even if you take 2 months our for covid then its still 5 months !! OTS, Hopleys and Sumnercourt travel have all managed it seems to have meet the conditions set.It is the main GA/pcb hubs that have failed and keep failing.
Go ahead have made a lousy attempt at a project that they created themselves. The size of the project was purely down to them.

 

[Dorsetbus]

Was mentioned that the order was changed to MMCs, because I would think the City's wouldn't be too suited for life in Cornwall

But yes, People need to just wait and see as we all know how reliable kerbside gossip can be, and yes well done for Go-ahead and Co for bringing even more new buses, on top of Kernow's orders over the past 4 years

Never did understand ordering citys for cornwall as mmc's were better suited.

 

[Dorsetbus]

I don't know what you've been smoking, but all the big groups would be quite capable of implementing a project like this. It appears from what I have seen that Go Ahead have bitten off more than they can chew (not helped by coronavirus, although it is giving them a ready made excuse) and are struggling operationally on the ground. No great surprise, they are making a complete mess of their East Anglia operations as well.

And which of the major operator's in east anglia has been successful?

 

[Dorsetbus]

Will stick my hands up if I have this wrong but .
The tenders had to be in by end of october 2019. The awards were given about 23 or 24th December 2019. So the 10 day cooling off or objections were over xmas and new years when when most office staff and such were off !! The full service should have started 1st april 2020. So 3 months from public knowledge of awards given. GA/pcb/tfc were not ready with only a handful of buses painted in tfc colours and that was only because they were new with maybe the odd one or two older buses painted in tfc colours. Yes carona came along and delayed things. During the 6 to 8 weeks of lockdown pcb/GA ran a limited service the same as FK. When full service started on 1st June they were still not ready in any sence. Drivers were route learning most of june. The duty boards were wrong and not amended for over a week.There are still no timetables at bus stops and only the covid 19 poster.
In short, from xmas until now they have had nearly 7 months. Even if you take 2 months our for covid then its still 5 months !! OTS, Hopleys and Sumnercourt travel have all managed it seems to have meet the conditions set.It is the main GA/pcb hubs that have failed and keep failing.
Go ahead have made a lousy attempt at a project that they created themselves. The size of the project was purely down to them.

3 months to start a major operation with new vehicles,operating bases,drivers and anything else you might need for start up operation. Thats a short space and time in anyones estimation. Everybodys a armchair manager that could do better.

 

[MB162435]

Never did understand ordering citys for cornwall as mmc's were better suited.

Same, as much as they would add to the variety in Cornwall they aren't very practical, especially when they will be operating routes Kernow's E400 MMCs use to work, so most incoming operators would just order the same, as they're proven to be reliable and enjoyed on those routes

 

[Goldfish62]

Same, as much as they would add to the variety in Cornwall they aren't very practical, especially when they will be operating routes Kernow's E400 MMCs use to work, so most incoming operators would just order the same, as they're proven to be reliable and enjoyed on those routes

But surely they're exactly the same underneath. It's just the Londonised body styling that's different.

Personally I prefer the styling of the MMC, although the City is a vast improvement over the hideous creation that it gets its styling cues from.

 

[Yarp1]

3 months to start a major operation with new vehicles,operating bases,drivers and anything else you might need for start up operation. Thats a short space and time in anyones estimation. Everybodys a armchair manager that could do better.

3 months to start a operation that they created for themselves. So for november and december didnt they make any plans incase their tender was granted?? Then 3 months before full service. only at the last day literally covid lockdown happened. Covid was a bit of breathing space for them which they dont seem to have taken advantage of. Yes people were on furlough but people were still able to work from home.

 

[Goldfish62]

3 months to start a major operation with new vehicles,operating bases,drivers and anything else you might need for start up operation. Thats a short space and time in anyones estimation. Everybodys a armchair manager that could do better.

Operationally, yes, it's impressive to get it up and running in such a short period. What are not impressive by any measure are the accident damage on the buses and total lack of roadside timetables.

The apparently deliberate fragmentation of the bus network across Cornwall taking it back to early deregulation days is 100% the council's fault.

I am not sure where blame lies for the lack of a route map.

 

[MB162435]

But surely they're exactly the same underneath. It's just the Londonised body styling that's different.

Personally I prefer the styling of the MMC, although the City is a vast improvement over the hideous creation that it gets its styling cues from.

The Citys look more bulkey than the MMCs, never been on a City before so couldn't say if they're any better than the MMCs from a passenger perspective, but given that they are closely related I wouldn't think they would be too different structurely

The Kernow MMCs seem to do the job well in Cornwall so I can't see why Go-ahead would go differently, would match their E200 MMCs too, giving a uniform look

 

[jammy36]

But surely they're exactly the same underneath. It's just the Londonised body styling that's different.

Exactly right - both can be specified with the same engines, gearbox, etc. Even the bodywork is around 80% the same, just a different front and different front and rear domes, otherwise they're structurally identical. Despite the name, the City is just as suited to rural or interurban work, its nothing more than an MMC with (slightly) different clothes on!

 

[Goldfish62]

The Citys look more bulkey than the MMCs, never been on a City before so couldn't say if they're any better than the MMCs from a passenger perspective, but given that they are closely related I wouldn't think they would be too different structurely

Basically they're identical from a passenger perspective except for the glazed staircase (although even that appears to be optional now), a more contoured and styled ceiling and more restrictive forward view on the top deck.

 

[fgwrich]

Operationally, yes, it's impressive to get it up and running in such a short period. What are not impressive by any measure are the accident damage on the buses and total lack of roadside timetables.

The apparently deliberate fragmentation of the bus network across Cornwall taking it back to early deregulation days is 100% the council's fault.

I am not sure where blame lies for the lack of a route map.

Throw in the vehicles running out of fuel issue too. As for the accident damage, you only need to take a look at Flickr to see a number of vehicles running around with gaffa tape on them - including new MMCs.

 

[Goldfish62]

Throw in the vehicles running out of fuel issue too. As for the accident damage, you only need to take a look at Flickr to see a number of vehicles running around with gaffa tape on them - including new MMCs.

Yes, I've seen it at first hand. What also appears evident is the old accident damage on buses imported from Plymouth. Seems to me there's something fundamentally wrong with driver standards monitoring at PCB if the damage is anything to go by. The only other operator of any size I've seen with this general amount of panel damage is Diamond Bus.

 

[MB162435]

Basically they're identical from a passenger perspective except for the glazed staircase (although even that appears to be optional now), a more contoured and styled ceiling and more restrictive forward view on the top deck.

Ah right, so won't be too much of a difference for passengers no matter what we end up with, which is good

 

[swifty]

Same, as much as they would add to the variety in Cornwall they aren't very practical, especially when they will be operating routes Kernow's E400 MMCs use to work, so most incoming operators would just order the same, as they're proven to be reliable and enjoyed on those routes

I find it hard to believe that any operator would order a fleet of brand new buses because they are enjoyed by enthusiasts on certain routes. They'll order the most sutiable tool for the job.

The Kernow MMCs seem to do the job well in Cornwall so I can't see why Go-ahead would go differently, would match their E200 MMCs too, giving a uniform look

The ADL E400 Citys would give more of a uniform look alongisde the new E200mmcs than a standard ADL E400MMC would.

 

[richw]

Yes, I've seen it at first hand. What also appears evident is the old accident damage on buses imported from Plymouth. Seems to me there's something fundamentally wrong with driver standards monitoring at PCB if the damage is anything to go by. The only other operator of any size I've seen with this general amount of panel damage is Diamond Bus.

Apparently the reason for lacking repairs is they’ve only one panel beater across the whole pcb/TfC network. Maybe I’m out of touch with reality as majority of our fitters do bodywork as a matter of course. Maybe my expectations are too high. A car hit me in an old Barbie trident last summer whilst I was stationary, a medium sized dent below the mid offside window. The dent had been knocked out within 48 hours despite being a worn tired looking barbie trident!

E200 140 has a random sheet of misfit metal riveted to front near side corner!

 

[richw]

Jason Beverley posted on Facebook 19 e400 still waiting For on delivery And 30 something e200. This seems lower number of deckers than originally mooted. The deckers ordered for Cornwall were not a new order and are diversions from other Opcos, with Cornwall to get the first batch ready, which clearly hasn’t happened, as can be seen at GNE or EYMS