Go Cornwall Bus

[carlberry]

E200 140 has a random sheet of misfit metal riveted to front near side corner!

Cornish verge defender!

 

[Goldfish62]

Jason Beverley posted on Facebook 19 e400 still waiting For on delivery And 30 something e200. This seems lower number of deckers than originally mooted. The deckers ordered for Cornwall were not a new order and are diversions from other Opcos, with Cornwall to get the first batch ready, which clearly hasn’t happened, as can be seen at GNE or EYMS

The plot thickens!

I actually thought it was 17 new E400s due.

 

[baza585]

And which of the major operator's in east anglia has been successful?

First are actually doing OK. Not brilliant but OK.

Dare I mention Go West Midlands.........

 

[jammy36]

I actually thought it was 17 new E400s due.

Agreed I thought 92 new vehicles, split 75 Enviro 200s (various lengths) and 17 Enviro 400 double deckers.

By my calculation 44 single deckers have been delivered new so far, which leaves 48 still to come (17 deckers and the final 31 singles) which fits pretty well with the numbers reported to have been posted by Jason Beverley.

The deckers ordered for Cornwall were not a new order and are diversions from other Opcos, with Cornwall to get the first batch ready, which clearly hasn’t happened, as can be seen at GNE or EYMS

I don't know why these EYMS deckers keep being mentioned. They were never intended for Cornwall and were never being diverted here. They are of no relevance to the GCB order. If the GCB order were being diverted from elsewhere, then it was another opco, but I don't know which.

 

[richw]

I don't know why these EYMS deckers keep being mentioned. They were never intended for Cornwall and were never being diverted here. They are of no relevance to the GCB order. If the GCB order were being diverted from elsewhere, then it was another opco, but I don't know which.

Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote.
TfC were supposed to receive the first batch ready To go ahead nationally according to TfC managers Posting On Facebook. This has been proven incorrect by those deliveries to EYMS and GNE.

 

[jammy36]

Although unverified a TFC driver told me today that head office have diverted the brand new deckers To other opcos due To the amount of damage happening. £350k of body repairs, £70k of glass damage and 3 written off vehicles (Including 2 brand new ones) in the first 3 months hasn’t gone down well with head office he said.

Had it confirmed privately from a go ahead employee in a position of knowledge that the 8 that have arrived at EYMS this week were due to Cornwall originally!

That were due to be diverted to Cornwall as a result of the tender bid, the diversion was cancelled.
All of the new deckers were diversions from other opcos orders. There have been union involvement at some of those opcos surrounding it. Several other opcos have had cuts because of the funds needed to be diverted to Cornwall. TfC is not popular at some of the other go ahead opcos as a result.

Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote.
TfC were supposed to receive the first batch ready To go ahead nationally according to TfC managers Posting On Facebook. This has been proven incorrect by those deliveries to EYMS and GNE.

Sorry, I did read what you had written and what you have written previously. I always appreciate your posts and insights into First Kernow and I appreciate that for TfC you are only reporting what you have heard, bu that has changed from all new deckers for Cornwall have been diverted away, then that the EYMS MMCs were due for Cornwall originally, then that they weren't due to Cornwall originally but were due to be diverted there, then that it wasn't the EYMS vehicles specifically that were due to be diverted, just whichever vehicles were built first.

What I am saying is that however it's phrased the position remains and always has been that the vehicles now being delivered to EYMS were never due originally to Cornwall, nor were they ever due to be diverted there, nor has their build slot changed (other than being delayed by Covid). They were always due to EYMS and always for delivery before Cornwall's.

I appreciate you're only posting what you are hearing, but something has obviously been misunderstood (or misrepresented to you) re these EYMS Environs.

Anyhow from what you are saying it now looks like 19 double deckers rather than 17 are due, so presumably panic over and as we were?

 

[MB162435]

I find it hard to believe that any operator would order a fleet of brand new buses because they are enjoyed by enthusiasts on certain routes. They'll order the most sutiable tool for the job.



The ADL E400 Citys would give more of a uniform look alongisde the new E200mmcs than a standard ADL E400MMC would.

Not saying any operator would order anything to please enthusiasts, that would just be crazy but would add to the range available in Cornwall along side the Kernow E400 MMCs

The E400 MMCs alongside the E200 MMCs have given Kernow a more uniform appearance, with all being the same livery so would be the same for TfC as all of theirs would almost certainly be in the same livery, but I'm not implying the Citys would stick out like a sore thumb and look out of place, as long as they do the job their appearance and design is irrelevant

 

[MB162435]

Sorry, I did read what you had written and what you have written previously. I always appreciate your posts and insights into First Kernow and I appreciate that for TfC you are only reporting what you have heard, bu that has changed from all new deckers for Cornwall have been diverted away, then that the EYMS MMCs were due for Cornwall originally, then that they weren't due to Cornwall originally but were due to be diverted there, then that it wasn't the EYMS vehicles specifically that were due to be diverted, just whichever vehicles were built first.

What I am saying is that however it's phrased the position remains and always has been that the vehicles now being delivered to EYMS were never due originally to Cornwall, nor were they ever due to be diverted there, nor has their build slot changed (other than being delayed by Covid). They were always due to EYMS and always for delivery before Cornwall's.

I appreciate you're only posting what you are hearing, but something has obviously been misunderstood (or misrepresented to you) re these EYMS Environs.

Anyhow from what you are saying it now looks like 19 double deckers rather than 17 are due, so presumably panic over and as we were?

Hopefully yes, back in March some TfC staff said their mangers weren't going to use the Ex-Kernow MMCs and it got everyone talking, but they actually did not like they had any choice but they are used and will continue to be so, so kerbside should always be taken with a pinch of salt until confirmed

 

[richw]

Hopefully yes, back in March some TfC staff said their mangers weren't going to use the Ex-Kernow MMCs and it got everyone talking, but they actually did not like they had any choice but they are used and will continue to be so, so kerbside should always be taken with a pinch of salt until confirmed

As for the council owned MMCs, the council are charging the operator a huge depreciation fee and a mileage fee!

 

[MB162435]

As for the council owned MMCs, the council are charging the operator a huge depreciation fee and a mileage fee!

So they're not cheap to use then, were they just as expensive with Kernow?

 

[Goldfish62]

So they're not cheap to use then, were they just as expensive with Kernow?

To ensure fair competition the council should be charging a fair market rate for their use.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To ensure fair competition the council should be charging a fair market rate for their use.

Exactly. The council own them so they’d need any operator to take them on and charge any operator the same for usage.

 

[MotCO]

Will stick my hands up if I have this wrong but .
The tenders had to be in by end of october 2019. The awards were given about 23 or 24th December 2019. So the 10 day cooling off or objections were over xmas and new years when when most office staff and such were off !! The full service should have started 1st april 2020. So 3 months from public knowledge of awards given. GA/pcb/tfc were not ready with only a handful of buses painted in tfc colours and that was only because they were new with maybe the odd one or two older buses painted in tfc colours. Yes carona came along and delayed things. During the 6 to 8 weeks of lockdown pcb/GA ran a limited service the same as FK. When full service started on 1st June they were still not ready in any sence. Drivers were route learning most of june. The duty boards were wrong and not amended for over a week.There are still no timetables at bus stops and only the covid 19 poster.
In short, from xmas until now they have had nearly 7 months. Even if you take 2 months our for covid then its still 5 months !! OTS, Hopleys and Sumnercourt travel have all managed it seems to have meet the conditions set.It is the main GA/pcb hubs that have failed and keep failing.
Go ahead have made a lousy attempt at a project that they created themselves. The size of the project was purely down to them.

I doubt much progress would be made until the tender was awarded - what would be the point of investing time and resources in a project which may never happen?

Tenders are common place in London, and tend to be for individual routes or a small group of routes. A single company seldom wins a new tender for circa 100 buses, and the winners tend to be existing London contractors. Typically, a tender announcement is around 9 months before start of contract, and this time ensures a smooth handover.

This is completely different to what has happened in Cornwall. Go-Ahead was a new company in the west of Cornwall, and had no staff or buses at the outset. The initial plan was to implement in 3 months (Christmas to April) which is plain unreasonable. Ok, maybe seven months is more reasonable, and minor points such as refuelling arrangements should have been resolved before this, but we don't know if there were planning permission problems using the Council facilities etc. Finding 100 buses at short notice is not easy - some were owned by TfC, but a lot aren't. Staff recruitment would be difficult - Cornwall is surrounded by water on three sides, so the only recruits would be from within Cornwall or maybe from neighbouring Devon. Kernow did not give up many (any?) staff, so Go-Ahead had to recruit maybe 200 - 300 staff in 3 months, including qualified drivers and mechanics. I think only First could have done this in time, purely because they were the previous incumbent so had all the staff and buses. Any other company would have struggled.

Can I also draw parallels with Arriva's take over of buses in Malta? I can't remember the timetable, but they had to introduce new buses, new routes and either retrain existing drivers (mostly self-employed who did not want to work for Arriva) or recruit new drivers. They also struggled, to the extent that the contract was terminated early. I'm not saying that I expect Go-Ahead to go the same way in Cornwall, but I would argue that setting up the new TfC contract was hardly a walk in the park.

 

[GBM]

Mel Williams has now arrived as head of TfC, so suspect there will be a gradual return to normality for them.
Less incidents, no more fuel cards, and better maintenance, etc.
Doubt he will let the weeds continue to grow!

 

[MB162435]

To ensure fair competition the council should be charging a fair market rate for their use.

One would hope so, the MMCs would be quite a burden otherwise for any incumbent operator

 

[MB162435]

Mel Williams has now arrived as head of TfC, so suspect there will be a gradual return to normality for them.
Less incidents, no more fuel cards, and better maintenance, etc.
Doubt he will let the weeds continue to grow!

Hope he will get rid of the silly mistakes TfC keep seem to be making currently such as the ones you listed, and give TfC some dignity and respect, and not a continuous laughing stock they are to many at the moment

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

One would hope so, the MMCs would be quite a burden otherwise for any incumbent operator

They HAVE to or they fall foul of competition rules.

 

[laira 2]

Mel Williams has now arrived as head of TfC, so suspect there will be a gradual return to normality for them.
Less incidents, no more fuel cards, and better maintenance, etc.
Doubt he will let the weeds continue to grow!

Who is Mel Williams and what is his/her record?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Who is Mel Williams and what is his/her record?

He’s a vastly experienced busman who used to work for Western National.

I doubt much progress would be made until the tender was awarded - what would be the point of investing time and resources in a project which may never happen?

Tenders are common place in London, and tend to be for individual routes or a small group of routes. A single company seldom wins a new tender for circa 100 buses, and the winners tend to be existing London contractors. Typically, a tender announcement is around 9 months before start of contract, and this time ensures a smooth handover.

This is completely different to what has happened in Cornwall. Go-Ahead was a new company in the west of Cornwall, and had no staff or buses at the outset. The initial plan was to implement in 3 months (Christmas to April) which is plain unreasonable. Ok, maybe seven months is more reasonable, and minor points such as refuelling arrangements should have been resolved before this, but we don't know if there were planning permission problems using the Council facilities etc. Finding 100 buses at short notice is not easy - some were owned by TfC, but a lot aren't. Staff recruitment would be difficult - Cornwall is surrounded by water on three sides, so the only recruits would be from within Cornwall or maybe from neighbouring Devon. Kernow did not give up many (any?) staff, so Go-Ahead had to recruit maybe 200 - 300 staff in 3 months, including qualified drivers and mechanics. I think only First could have done this in time, purely because they were the previous incumbent so had all the staff and buses. Any other company would have struggled.

Can I also draw parallels with Arriva's take over of buses in Malta? I can't remember the timetable, but they had to introduce new buses, new routes and either retrain existing drivers (mostly self-employed who did not want to work for Arriva) or recruit new drivers. They also struggled, to the extent that the contract was terminated early. I'm not saying that I expect Go-Ahead to go the same way in Cornwall, but I would argue that setting up the new TfC contract was hardly a walk in the park.

so much of this is on the money. Quite frankly, given the timescales involved and the council’s approach, it’s a miracle things have gone as well as they have.

 

[GBM]

Mel headed up & left First Kernow several years ago, having built it up, and coped with the Western Greyhound collapse, etc.
Transferred to First Transport Solutions - working on rail replacement contracts/Hinkley Point contracts/Boardmasters, etc, etc.
Now left them and joined TfC as Cornwall head.
Greatly experienced, busman through and through.

 

[MB162435]

Mel must be a god send for TfC, a sort of person they desperately needed, let's hope things will start to change for the better now

 

[jammy36]

busman through and through

Yes, he really is. Also is/was chair of the Cornwall Bus Preservation Group.

Hopefully he will quickly iron out these prolonged teething issues and perhaps (given his previous links with First) help promote the kind of joined up thinking that the council promised but seem incapable of delivering.

 

[carlberry]

Yes, he really is. Also is/was chair of the Cornwall Bus Preservation Group.

Hopefully he will quickly iron out these prolonged teething issues and perhaps (given his previous links with First) help promote the kind of joined up thinking that the council promised but seem incapable of delivering.

Also owns a Bristol RELH coach which places him firmly into the premier league!

 

[laira 2]

Mel headed up & left First Kernow several years ago, having built it up, and coped with the Western Greyhound collapse, etc.
Transferred to First Transport Solutions - working on rail replacement contracts/Hinkley Point contracts/Boardmasters, etc, etc.
Now left them and joined TfC as Cornwall head.
Greatly experienced, busman through and through.

Good to hear. Sitting here at home and have never worked in the bus industry although have followed buses all my life even I can see some glaring basic mistakes being made.
I look forward to the improvements in the near future.
I also agree with others the timescales were very very tight even without a Virus.

 

[richw]

Mel will without doubt sort it, if he’s given the resources from above.

 

[Busaholic]

He’s a vastly experienced busman who used to work for Western National.




so much of this is on the money. Quite frankly, given the timescales involved and the council’s approach, it’s a miracle things have gone as well as they have.

The most encouraging news about the whole caboodle since it was first announced, though Mel Williams's name and reputation are far better known to others like yourself than to me. A slight caveat on the miracle thing: if Covid hadn't struck so many more of these deficiencies would have been apparent by now. I've got to say, though, that GCB appears to be running as an operator of two halves, again mostly based on what I read on here. The smaller West Cornwall operation doesn't seem bedevilled with the problems occurring further east, and I've seen no examples of cancellations or excessively early/late runnings down here, even on journeys which might be expected to have few, if any, passengers. The 18.45 off Market Jew St to Roscadghill Parc even carried a passenger yesterday evening (and it wasn't me, haven't been on a bus since lockdown commenced.)

 

[M803UYA]

Mel will without doubt sort it, if he’s given the resources from above.

Good appointment by PCB given his local knowledge. PCB and Go Ahead can't afford to get the contract wrong can they?

 

[carlberry]

Good appointment by PCB given his local knowledge. PCB and Go Ahead can't afford to get the contract wrong can they?

Is he with TfC or PCB?

 

[GBM]

On 7th July Mel posted on his Fb page "Started new job Monday 6th July Operations Manager Go Cornwall Bus!"

 

[83G/84D]

Mercedes Benz Citaro 81 seen on driver training duties today.