M803UYA
Member
That would make some sense. In the operation I worked at which did NX work the drivers were in a different union to the local bus service drivers. Although I think those drivers wouldn't have passed a picket line out of solidarity....
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Go North East
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DanNCL
Established Member
I don't for one second believe this indefinite strike will last very long. These people are already on little more than minimum wage, they can't afford to be off work for long as they have bills to pay like everyone else. And if they somehow can afford to be on strike for months at a time then they're clearly not struggling as much as Unite are claiming!
bobslack1982
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The union is covering them up to £75 a day I believe.
Can't speak for most of the area, but the train service between Metrocentre and Newcastle has been absolutely stuffed as it's the only way of getting from most of Tyne and Wear to the shopping centre. Not helped by the lack of buses up the Tyne Valley.
I was going to mention the trains, I can see what you mean as out that way apart from Stagecoach 685 to Carlisle service, for me as a visitor to Newcastle I didn't realise until now how much of the area GNE cover.
On my last visit few weeks back I was aware of the strike the following week but was surprised to see on display on the noticeboard (ticket office?) in Eldon Square of the strike the following week (this week).
M803UYA
Member
On the flip side, can the company stand the lost revenue from a bus network not operating fully? How long will Go Ahead stand the losses of £000,000s a week not coming into the business? Someone will have to come to some sort of compromise and put forward a deal. After which these indefinite strikers will then have to work with management which have happily let them go on the picket line. The company doesn't get much loyalty from people who go on the gate going forwards. Neither the company nor the drivers win there - but clearly Go Ahead is happy for it to happen as no one in Go North East would be allowing this to happen without sanction from the group.
Strange way to work, but then the modern bus industry left the world of common sense logic some time ago!
In many cases they have a total monopoly: if you live in Washington, Houghton le Spring, Consett, or Stanley there are effectively no other buses, nor are there any trains or Metros. That probably reduces the effect on other services, while also making the strikes incredibly damaging for those areas.
The only non GNE route near me is the X12, and it's hard to tell whether it's any worse than normal. I've seen it full and standing a couple of times but that's not unusual at the best of times - it's one single decker per hour along a very busy corridor.
The X12 Durham/Middlesborough from Arriva?
I can imagine those areas affected it is pretty huge having no competition and relying on the one operator plus spending money on taxis (they will not be cheap either!)
Yes - it runs through Chester-le-Street, Birtley, and Low Fell - all of which are normally served by the 21 (and in some cases X21) as their main service. Chester-le-Street does technically have trains as well, but outwith the peaks frequencies are so low that they get very little usage.
Certainly you're right that it's having a big impact - I'm lucky that I can walk to work but a lot of people who rely on the buses can't. Needless to say, people are fed up; without wanting to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of the situation, most people's anger and frustration seems directed at both the company and the unions. There's certainly not a lot of hope that this will be resolved quickly...
These things playing out in public never helps the cause but GNE have looked somewhat bumbling throughout. In terms of the disruption.
Uber have been surcharging as they do with their demand pricing throughout the peaks and I know my local taxi firm is only taking pre-bookings due to the level of demand.
A neighbour teaches at Gateshead College and her subject isn't a practical one so they are fully remote at the moment and I know a few local schools are offering that option (but we know from Covid that isn't entirely ideal) and those who can work from home are obviously doing so but the equally low paid care staff, retail etc etc are fairly stuck
The X12 is getting battered (it was worse when the trains were on strike too) but it's fully single deck operation and although they have had some duplicates it's suffered timing and capacity (as expected)
Uber have been surcharging as they do with their demand pricing throughout the peaks and I know my local taxi firm is only taking pre-bookings due to the level of demand.
A neighbour teaches at Gateshead College and her subject isn't a practical one so they are fully remote at the moment and I know a few local schools are offering that option (but we know from Covid that isn't entirely ideal) and those who can work from home are obviously doing so but the equally low paid care staff, retail etc etc are fairly stuck
The X12 is getting battered (it was worse when the trains were on strike too) but it's fully single deck operation and although they have had some duplicates it's suffered timing and capacity (as expected)
DanNCL
Established Member
If Go North East are genuinely loss making as suggested by their accounts then it might not actually be doing them that much harm, as they don't have to pay drivers wages or fuel up the buses during the strikes. That could be cutting expenditure by an amount not that much lower than the lost revenue.
Where I am (near Chester-le-Street but too far to walk) I don't have any alternative public transport option at all, and as I don't have a car I'm basically stuck here unless I try my luck with an expensive taxi or if I can get a lift off a neighbour. I've now began the process of getting a car and I suspect many others here are now also doing the same!
Reliability on the X12 won't be helped by the temporary lights just south of Durham either.
National Express drivers will be on different contracts. Happened in Birmingham while the stage carriage drivers were on strike. National Express coaches operated as usual
Regarding the X12, why don’t they do the smart thing and use double deckers? This is why I personally believe single decks are useless at most times.
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bobslack1982
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First of all where would they source them at such short notice? Second of all the service clearly doesn’t demand double deckers so why would the company buy them for it? The X12 (and X1 as it used to be) has been single deck for at least 15 years as far as I can recall and probably even further back than that given that it used to be operated by coaches.
As for consequences to other services - the Coast Road Arriva 306/308 are really struggling at times.
I caught one on Sunday afternoon with every seat taken - plus there'd been at least 40 mins since anything else.
Thankfully mostly double deckers as per usual allocation.
I caught one on Sunday afternoon with every seat taken - plus there'd been at least 40 mins since anything else.
Thankfully mostly double deckers as per usual allocation.
Because one of the depots that operates the X12 does not have any double deckers. There’s also the fact that Newcastle is a Clean Air Zone meaning the major of the double deckers in the Durham County fleet cannot be used.
The X12 (X1/X2) was upgraded to a mixed allocation of mainly double deckers on 2012 in line with Durham University’s requests (Durham University funded certain journeys and aspects of the X1/X2 at that time) and remained as such until the University closed its Stockton Campus in the summer of 2018, at the same time the X12 times were revised with the lost of the evening journeys after 9pm Monday to Saturday (Sunday service finishes earlier - 10 past 6 from the Middlesbrough end and 25 past 7 from Durham - nothing north of Durham on a Sunday).
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Stagecoach North East has been putting put double-deckers on its share of the 685 during strike days. The Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancs share has been double-decked for some time now, certainly since the latter days of the Stagecoach/Arriva era.
That’s one route I’m surprised GNE didn’t have a share in (I understand the X84/X85 now 684), went as far as Hexham but did wonder how it was Arriva that went out that way more than GNE.
Edit: understand Arriva dropped their share in 685 a few months back.
Hexham was historically United territory and originally ran the 334, now 685, in its entirety from there and from Carlisle. The long period of joint operation started when United's Carlisle depot was transferred to Ribble in 1969. Arriva sold Hexham depot to GNE in 2010 but kept its share of the 685, with its operation transferring to Jesmond depot.
Commercial bus operation is well and truly dead if an operator isn't willing to pay £12.50 a day per bus to hoover up all the Go North East customers on the Durham Road corridor. It just requires a bit of forward planning by allocations to get buses in the right place. Stockton is on the same o-license as Durham!
Firstly, it's a £50 a day fine not £12.50. It's also massively against the spirit of the CAZ, and could negatively impact Arriva's relationship with the council which could impact future revenue.
Secondly, it requires more than "a bit of forward planning". Are you going to give deckers to Stockton? That can't happen for maintenance reasons, and even if it could then every single driver would need vehicle familiarisation before taking them in service. Are you planning on sourcing some extra ones for Durham? If so, why should passengers on the rest of Arriva's network suffer because GNE can't provide a service?
You're both wrong; the daily charge for big vehicles is £50. The fine (ie penalty for failure to pay) is £120 plus the charge.
Tyneside is a charging zone not a banning zone so there would be no negative impact (even if the CAZ were administered by Nexus it is hard to see a reputational damage sort of issue) through correctly paying for a non-compliant vehicle.
One imagines that some drivers at least will already be familiar..... but of course we all know how the big groups work.
Haven’t both Stagecoach and GNE used non complaint vehicles plenty of times? Stagecoach even using them on the Late Shows which is council supported
If it goes to an indefinite strike, you’d hope Arriva show some operational and commercial noise and step up. It’s well known the Durham Road corridor is the most lucrative hence the 21 being the GNE flagship, money to be made and we don’t have the independent operators to cover the strikes like we had in the 90s strikes.
Think it was pretty clear what we both meant!
Hence why I'd said spirit of the CAZ (Clean Air Zone), agreed though that it would probably have no impact.
Given Stockton has never been allocated any of the double deckers currently in service at Durham I'd say it's extremely unlikely that any of them are familiar. The only real reason they'd have driven any is if they'd transferred from another depot.
They don't really have the drivers or the vehicles to do that, they can barely cover the services they're already running. Even if they did try, by the time they sourced enough vehicles and route learned a load of agency drivers I'd think that Unite and GNE would have likely reached an agreement, so it would all be for nothing.
I'm more surprised that GNE haven't tried to run a skeleton service on it using the staff who they are using to cover some of the routes in North Tyneside, though I believe these may be agency drivers who were already route learned on those routes prior to strike action.
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Let us not forget that there are strict rules around covering staff who are striking (essentially that new staff can't be taken on)
What sort of double deckers are you both referring to?
It was not clear at all that you meant 'charge' rather than 'fine' or 'penalty' so forgive me if you both do in fact know.
What sort of double deckers are you both referring to?
It was not clear at all that you meant 'charge' rather than 'fine' or 'penalty' so forgive me if you both do in fact know.
The Go North West strike lasted roughly 12 weeks but they covered services with subcontracted operators.
Is that the practice that is now banned - not that there's much alternative up here in terms of other operators (hence the effectiveness and damage of the strike across the region)
Is that the practice that is now banned - not that there's much alternative up here in terms of other operators (hence the effectiveness and damage of the strike across the region)
The problem with the North East is who has extra drivers and capacity. Agency drivers are at a premium due to the shortage.
Can't say I agree with that to be honest. It's not their corridor and never will be so why bother.
Personally, the 6 and 22/23/24 triangle are the routes which should get them first as there's capacity problems on those corridors as well and they're routes they actually compete on. Mind half of Durham's deckers stay local for a reason as they're completely shot to bits from being on the X14/X15/X18/X20 at Ashington.
Arriva Northumbria / North East don't have enough deckers though. Blyth badly needs more and so does Darlington regardless to the GNE strikes.
To be clear, that was illegal and the operators involved are lucky that there appears to have been minimal repercussion.