Go North East

[Andyh82]

I’ve rarely seen such a cackhanded defence of terrible working conditions.

GNE are the lowest paid drivers in the north east and the derisory offer made doesn’t actually improve on that.

Drivers won’t be made redundant when they can’t even fulfil their routes now. And if GNE started to withdraw routes then Arriva and Stagecoach would take over.

I can imagine a possible negative outcome long term if you were a driver at a depot that could realistically be closed if post strike finances needed some savings.

Imagine if they decided to close Washington and stopped running the locals. Drivers would have the option of either moving to a depot much further away from their home or working for someone who Nexus get to run the locals, like Gateshead Central Taxis for example. Quitting GNE and moving to Stagecoach in Sunderland would also be less convenient if said driver lived in Washington

 

[Snex]

I can imagine a possible negative outcome long term if you were a driver at a depot that could realistically be closed if post strike finances needed some savings.

Imagine if they decided to close Washington and stopped running the locals. Drivers would have the option of either moving to a depot much further away from their home or working for someone who Nexus get to run the locals, like Gateshead Central Taxis for example. Quitting GNE and moving to Stagecoach in Sunderland would also be less convenient if said driver lived in Washington

Not sure closing a depot when there's the impending franchising of the network would be in their best interests. It's just giving an opportunity for someone like Rotala to do what Go North West pretty much did in Manchester, and stick their foot in the door to get a bigger pie later.

If it's all contract work they're bidding on like the Washington Locals, 25, 28, 29, Chester Le Street locals etc then it would pay for itself. There's no-one else realistically competitive in the area.

Percy Main has to be the depot most at risk though; there's literally nothing there anymore bar the Coast Road services and 1 which could easily be ran from Riverside and no doubt everyone has moved to the 22 now in the Howden area. I can't see them returning either. The rest of it is just weak stuff really.

 

[bobslack1982]

Can you explain why, when GNE 'offered Unite what they asked for, they changed their minds and said that they now wanted more', why was this offer not taken up? If GNE did actually offer what Unite asked for, why would Unite move the goalposts unless they were doing it for political gain. I will say, I do think that some unions are after political gain here. I am also all too aware that unless it's a secret ballot, many people can feel pressured into voting certain ways.

What is to say that there isn't pressure here on certain staff members who do not want to get caught up in Union bullying and so voting for strike when they heart actually says they don't want it.

Unite offered 11.2% for a one year deal. GNE said no. The strike would have ended this week had they accepted but they turned it down.

The only party in this unwilling to end the strike is GNE themselves.

 

[OptareOlympus]

I'm not familiar with the details of the GNE dispute but seeing the £15 an hour rate quoted doesn't come as a surprise. Since Go Cornwall drivers moved onto that rate in July, that set the benchmark for other GA companies to also meet. It's definitely the case that Morebus drivers at Go South Coast will be demanding the same, if not higher next year. At present the top rate in Bournemouth and Poole is only £13.50 which is now less than Cornwall trainees.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not sure closing a depot when there's the impending franchising of the network would be in their best interests.

I hope franchising comes back, but it was killed off a few years back. Lots of promises of partnership working and new developments from Go North East. None of which have come to fruition.

You mention Percy Main depot. I genuinely cannot believe what Go have done to their North Tyneside network, they’ve trashed all of it. Given their fares- £3 single from Northumberland Park to Silverlink(!)- I’m not surprised, either.

What’s interesting is how their decision to withdraw has given Stagecoach a foothold in the borough, with the tendered stuff like the 317 not sticking with Go. You can see Stagecoach positioning themselves as the reputable option already.

 

[jkkne]

I'm not familiar with the details of the GNE dispute but seeing the £15 an hour rate quoted doesn't come as a surprise. Since Go Cornwall drivers moved onto that rate in July, that set the benchmark for other GA companies to also meet. It's definitely the case that Morebus drivers at Go South Coast will be demanding the same, if not higher next year. At present the top rate in Bournemouth and Poole is only £13.50 which is now less than Cornwall trainees.

I entirely support the drivers in the dispute but I do disagree in part with parity across a group.
The cost of living in the North East whilst still a burden to many is much lower than Cornwall or even Manchester.

 

[OptareOlympus]

I entirely support the drivers in the dispute but I do disagree in part with parity across a group.
The cost of living in the North East whilst still a burden to many is much lower than Cornwall or even Manchester.

It is, but then all NHS staff are on the same payscale throughout England. The argument would be in that case that Cornwall should be on more than £15 rather than GNE not being on £15.

 

[MotCO]

It is, but then all NHS staff are on the same payscale throughout England.

That is true up to a point. NHS staff are paid on the same payscales throughout the country (plus London Weighting as appropriate), but the scales people are on tend to be lower away from London and the south for doing the same job. (Or it certanly used to be the case)

 

[DanNCL]

Talks ongoing today according to a couple of drivers.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Talks ongoing today according to a couple of drivers.

About what?

 

[DanNCL]

About what?

Talks between GNE and Unite about resolving the dispute.

 

[Uncertainmaybe]

No resolution yesterday but further discussions today.

 

[jkkne]

A breakthrough it appears - though apparently not in the writing skills of whoever does these press releases or public facing comms from Ben

Go North East bus drivers set to become highest paid in the region as bosses move to avert strike

Go North East, the region’s largest bus operator, has reached a breakthrough in talks with union representatives.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Go North East, the region’s largest bus operator, has reached a breakthrough in talks with union representatives. This would propel its drivers to the top of the regional pay league and avert a looming 12-week strike scheduled to begin on Saturday, 28 October.

Under the landmark offer hourly rates for drivers will reach £14.15. This boosts pay for drivers working a standard week by almost £2,700 yearly, marking a 10.3% jump in pay. Those clocking overtime could see rises of over £3,000 per year.

Bosses at the firm have agreed to stick with an inflation busting pay proposal despite making losses of £4.3 million in its most recent published accounts.

If the proposal is accepted, drivers will also be guaranteed a further above inflation pay increase next year.

Though it would appear Unite have not recommended acceptance which is hidden in that mess of a release

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A breakthrough it appears - though apparently not in the writing skills of whoever does these press releases or public facing comms from Ben

Go North East bus drivers set to become highest paid in the region as bosses move to avert strike

Go North East, the region’s largest bus operator, has reached a breakthrough in talks with union representatives.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Though it would appear Unite have not recommended acceptance which is hidden in that mess of a release

What you mean “it appears “?

It says

The next move is for Unite to ballot its members. An endorsement for the new pay rates should allow the union to call off its indefinite strike due to start on Saturday 28 October.

That seems pretty clear

 

[DanNCL]

Despite what you may infer from Maxfield’s poor statement there must have been a change in position from GNE as I highly doubt Unite would be balloting their members again if it was still the same offer as before.
Fingers crossed this averts the strikes.

 

[Mwanesh]

I’ve rarely seen such a cackhanded defence of terrible working conditions.

GNE are the lowest paid drivers in the north east and the derisory offer made doesn’t actually improve on that.

Drivers won’t be made redundant when they can’t even fulfil their routes now. And if GNE started to withdraw routes then Arriva and Stagecoach would take over.

Arriva and Stagecoach are also short staffed. This just needs common sense from both sides. The Unions need to tone down militant talk

 

[jkkne]

What you mean “it appears “?

It says

That seems pretty clear

No it’s not, unite are not directing their members to accept.

The view locally and from drivers is that GNE have gone public with this to make drivers look bad if/when they decline it for the attack on their T&Css

 

[DanNCL]

No it’s not, unite are not directing their members to accept.

The view locally and from drivers is that GNE have gone public with this to make drivers look bad if/when they decline it for the attack on their T&Css

Unite directing their members to vote either way in the ballot would defeat the entire purpose of a ballot. They can recommend either for or against but it has to be a free vote.

Go North East are claiming that their latest offer comes with no changes to T&Cs. Are you saying that GNE are lying?

 

[jkkne]

Unite directing their members to vote either way in the ballot would defeat the entire purpose of a ballot. They can recommend either for or against but it has to be a free vote.

Go North East are claiming that their latest offer comes with no changes to T&Cs. Are you saying that GNE are lying?

Where does is say T&CS are not affected? Nothing in that statement,

This whole thing stinks of a PR stunt

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No it’s not, unite are not directing their members to accept.

The view locally and from drivers is that GNE have gone public with this to make drivers look bad if/when they decline it for the attack on their T&Css

GNE has also posted this https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/update-industrial-action

We can confirm that Go North East and Unite the Union have reached an agreement on our latest pay offer today and Unite will now take this offer to our colleagues for ballot. It is expected results from this ballot will be made available on Friday 27 October and we will update our customers on the outcome as soon as possible.

Whilst the ballot is ongoing Unite have not postponed strike action. At present there will be no Go North East buses from Saturday 28 October, with the exception of contracted school services, until further notice.

We appreciate your patience during this time.

So are you actually saying that Go North East is lying, that they haven't reached an agreement with Unite, and that Unite isn't going to ballot their members?

 

[Snex]

GNE has also posted this https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/update-industrial-action



So are you actually saying that Go North East is lying, that they haven't reached an agreement with Unite, and that Unite isn't going to ballot their members?

The part that's quiet is whether they're recommending approval or whether they're just putting an offer which they're planning to reject so they can use it for collateral.

There's a few drivers in various places who are are not so supportive of the offer and there's talk that they're planning to bring the terms clauses back in the next few months but on a depot level instead and they only want a 1 year deal.

Obviously that's speculation though as a few drivers doesn't represent everyone. Unite is very quiet either way though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So are you actually saying that Go North East is lying, that they haven't reached an agreement with Unite, and that Unite isn't going to ballot their members

It’s unclear if Unite have agreed to put the deal to members or if Unite have agreed to recommend to members that they should accept. It probably isn’t for GNE to announce the latter, in fairness, but it remains unclear.

It’s telling that Unite have not agreed to suspend or delay the strike action.

Guess we’ll find out tomorrow.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The part that's quiet is whether they're recommending approval or whether they're just putting an offer which they're planning to reject so they can use it for collateral.

There's a few drivers in various places who are are not so supportive of the offer and there's talk that they're planning to bring the terms clauses back in the next few months but on a depot level instead and they only want a 1 year deal.

Obviously that's speculation though as a few drivers doesn't represent everyone. Unite is very quiet either way though.

It’s unclear if Unite have agreed to put the deal to members or if Unite have agreed to recommend to members that they should accept. It probably isn’t for GNE to announce the latter, in fairness, but it remains unclear.

It’s telling that Unite have not agreed to suspend or delay the strike action.

Guess we’ll find out tomorrow.

They haven't said Unite are recommending the offer. They have said that they have agreed a deal that Unite are prepared to take to the members. They have said that the strike isn't cancelled.

That's it.

 

[DanNCL]

The thought that there *might* be an attempt to change T&Cs at a later date isn't on its own a reason to strike. If T&C changes (or the ability for GNE to impose them without union consultation at a later date) aren't part of this offer then they should be irrelevant for the purposes of accepting the offer. Should GNE bring the T&C changes back in a few months time, deal with that then as its own dispute.

If it is true that this latest offer is pay matching that of the highest paying competitor in the region (Arriva) and with no T&C changes then it's a reasonable offer. And if Unite were to reject such an offer they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. If they think they're going to be successful in getting GNE drivers the same wage as GNW they're living in cloud cuckoo land as that would mean they're asking for £1 more an hour than what any of GNE's competitors pay for exactly the same job. It simply isn't going to happen.

A few people on a certain bus forum don't represent the majority of drivers. The bus drivers I've encountered out and about over the last few days have generally been upbeat, especially so yesterday since the news of a new offer broke.

 

[jkkne]

it’s 1p more than Arriva, which is already under review and about to be raised. Give and take

 

[Snex]

The thought that there *might* be an attempt to change T&Cs at a later date isn't on its own a reason to strike. If T&C changes (or the ability for GNE to impose them without union consultation at a later date) aren't part of this offer then they should be irrelevant for the purposes of accepting the offer. Should GNE bring the T&C changes back in a few months time, deal with that then as its own dispute.

If it is true that this latest offer is pay matching that of the highest paying competitor in the region (Arriva) and with no T&C changes then it's a reasonable offer. And if Unite were to reject such an offer they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. If they think they're going to be successful in getting GNE drivers the same wage as GNW they're living in cloud cuckoo land as that would mean they're asking for £1 more an hour than what any of GNE's competitors pay for exactly the same job. It simply isn't going to happen.

A few people on a certain bus forum don't represent the majority of drivers. The bus drivers I've encountered out and about over the last few days have generally been upbeat, especially so yesterday since the news of a new offer broke.

I don't disagree with what your saying bar one point, surely the wages should be well above other companies. These wages were set months ago, so in theory they should be 5%+ above them by now. Otherwise give it 3 months, they're going to be bottom of the pile again.

Playing constant catch up, you're still the worst paid in the North East, regardless to what they're saying in the media. I know Arriva Northumbria are currently in negotiations for their next wage package.

We can't really discuss the rest of it as it's just speculation, let's be honest, as we don't have a clue what the terms are.

 

[DanNCL]

it’s 1p more than Arriva, which is already under review and about to be raised. Give and take

Whether it's the same as Arriva or 1p more the point stands it's in line with what everyone else pays for the same job in the North East and is therefore reasonable. If they're waiting for the GNW pay packet they'll be waiting a very long time as that's not the going rate for bus drivers in the North East.

I don't disagree with what your saying bar one point, surely the wages should be well above other companies. These wages were set months ago, so in theory they should be 5%+ above them by now. Otherwise give it 3 months, they're going to be bottom of the pile again.

Playing constant catch up, you're still the worst paid in the North East, regardless to what they're saying in the media. I know Arriva Northumbria are currently in negotiations for their next wage package.

We can't really discuss the rest of it as it's just speculation, let's be honest, as we don't have a clue what the terms are.

Even if Arriva will shortly overtake again it's still above Stagecoach and still in line with the competition. There isn't any requirement for GNE to be the highest paying in the region, as long as they're paying the going rate in the region.


27th October
Pay offer rejected. 93% turnout, 81% voted against. The indefinite strike from tomorrow will go ahead.

Considering what Unite are asking for is more than £1 more than any other company in the North East pays, I wouldn’t be surprised if this strike goes on for the maximum 12 week legally protected period.

 

[jkkne]

There’ll be a compromise on the T&Cs. It was obvious the deal would be rejected

It was more poor PR grandstanding by Maxfield and Co

A few people on a certain bus forum don't represent the majority of drivers. The bus drivers I've encountered out and about over the last few days have generally been upbeat, especially so yesterday since the news of a new offer broke.

Who was driving your bus? Ben Maxfield, Nigel or Dan Graham?

It appears forums do indeed represent the majority of drivers

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ben Maxfield’s semi-literate grandstanding about GNE bosses being really generous has gone down well, it seems.

93% turnout, 81% voted against.

Time for Go to get some grown-ups in the room?

 

[jkkne]

Ben Maxfield’s semi-literate grandstanding about GNE bosses being really generous has gone down well, it seems.

93% turnout, 81% voted against.

Time for Go to get some grown-ups in the room?

Quite. Perhaps some adults from Go Ahead group could come in ahead of the remnants of Giljberts over promoted disciples and patsy Ben