Go North West

[mic]

No numbers but SK15GXZ noted in Orbits livery outside ADL Anston today. It had gone when I later passed again so must have been taken to Queens Road or somewhere else

could be 4011

 

[NorthClyde320]

4012 is SN16 OGU

 

[LOL The Irony]

No numbers but SK15GXZ noted in Orbits livery outside ADL Anston today. It had gone when I later passed again so must have been taken to Queens Road or somewhere else

Why was it at ADL? Are they being refurbished?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why was it at ADL? Are they being refurbished?

Just a thought.... Is/was it a Dawson’s Rentals (Hellsby) vehicle so could’ve been having a bit of last minute attention ?

 

[NCounties]

Why was it at ADL? Are they being refurbished?

Its one of the places being used to respray buses into orbit livery. They've also been using Thornton's and bus and coach world, Blackburn. They've done no refurbishment on the orbits

 

[Alexbus12]

Its one of the places being used to respray buses into orbit livery. They've also been using Thornton's and bus and coach world, Blackburn. They've done no refurbishment on the orbits

Was a bit disappointed when I boarded. This big promotion for a brand new brand, only to board and it having no extras. No USB ports, No high backed seating, not even WiFi. Virtually no mention of the GNW name, heard some passengers thought it was a new bus company. Seems more like a repaint to please enthusiasts rather than to grow passenger numbers, but that's my overall opinion.

 

[cnjb8]

Was a bit disappointed when I boarded. This big promotion for a brand new brand, only to board and it having no extras. No USB ports, No high backed seating, not even WiFi. Virtually no mention of the GNW name, heard some passengers thought it was a new bus company. Seems more like a repaint to please enthusiasts rather than to grow passenger numbers, but that's my overall opinion.

Why would GNW want to please enthusiasts? They would be focused on gaining passenger numbers, but like you said the interiors are not acceptable

A former Yourbus Enviro200 YY67 USM is in the fleet.

 

[Alexbus12]

Why would GNW want to please enthusiasts? They would be focused on gaining passenger numbers, but like you said the interiors are not acceptable

I don't know, but the brand, currently, just seems pointless.

 

[mic]

Why would GNW want to please enthusiasts? They would be focused on gaining passenger numbers, but like you said the interiors are not acceptable

A former Yourbus Enviro200 YY67 USM is in the fleet.

YY 67 USM is 4021

also B7s 66836 and 66853 are the latest withdrawn

 

[RustySpoons]

Was a bit disappointed when I boarded. This big promotion for a brand new brand, only to board and it having no extras. No USB ports, No high backed seating, not even WiFi. Virtually no mention of the GNW name, heard some passengers thought it was a new bus company. Seems more like a repaint to please enthusiasts rather than to grow passenger numbers, but that's my overall opinion.

I feel that's the type of thing that will work against the company in the long run...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Good lord - you do wonder why bus companies bother when some folk would seem happy to have an all dealer white machine with BUS slapped on the front!

First of all, the Go North West name is slapped on the side and with any new launch, some people will need a bit of time to get used to it.

The passengers will benefit from newer vehicles AND at least they won't be sliding around on a shiny seated Streetlite. The lack of high backed seats and USB ports. These are routes that don't tend to have long journey durations so those are probably not important requirements unlike travelling from, for instance, Bolton to Pendlebury. Lack of wifi is a surprise, as that is almost standard nowadays.

The one criticism I have is that actually, this colour scheme is what GNW should've had for their standard livery. I posted this in Dec 2018 about the dreadful lacklustre approach of First GM to marketing their routes

"Now, this was the moment that, to my mind, encapsulates the issues with First GM. My last but one bus was the 582 Leigh to Bolton service that I was getting to Atherton to catch a final V2. This is a core trunk service running every 8 minutes (so not clockface). I'd seen it earlier and it was operated by a mix of vehicles from a 12 plate B9, a 55 plate Eclipse, and a former Hampshire Eclipse still in its Fareham livery. My bus was an Eclipse (69521) dating from 2011 that had very nice aubergine leather seats and this batch should be the regular vehicles for the service. That vehicle is comfortable and it's a core service at a high frequency. The route branding externally was that the old 2012 low key rubbish from the early days of Urban https://www.flickr.com/photos/mals_...4j4-qN57Gg-VEg25p-CKdkF9-Bde1Kk-Moykav-xz1qHe - absolutely pointless and inconsequential. No interior branding or information and no fares promotion. I see what is happening to other OpCos (having been on West of England, Kernow, Cymru, Hampshire, Berkshire, and Wyvern this year - I've been about) and whilst they're not perfect and things are a bit inconsistent, at least they're doing something to grow their business albeit with limited funds. I don't pretend that the issues with First GM are easily soluble; they operate in some places where high street spending is collapsing fastest and that economic activity is low and deprivation is high. They have also been hit hard by the tram taking patronage but still it seems to be in some sort of torpor - can you imagine how much more noticeable something like this might be....https://www.flickr.com/photos/castlebay/27988244768/in/photolist-JDe55h-G2Av5B-2a8tmD8 - is this because they never had to work hard for passengers, they don't know how to? I just don't know."

That something brighter and bolder could be employed for their services rather than dreary urban and the virtual lack of any sort of promotion of their services, internally or externally, was patently obvious, having had a day travelling around Bolton, Wigan and Salford including a spin on the 53.

Don't be fooled thinking that this is for enthusiasts. Nigel Featham is a bright guy and knows his stuff and will also know that any investment will only be justified by increased patronage and improved financial performance, not rounds of applauses from Stenning fanboys.

 

[RustySpoons]

stuff..

The one criticism I have is that actually, this colour scheme is what GNW should've had for their standard livery.

...some other stuff...

Don't be fooled thinking that this is for enthusiasts. Nigel Featham is a bright guy and knows his stuff and will also know that any investment will only be justified by increased patronage and improved financial performance, not rounds of applauses from Stenning fanboys.

BIB - Completely agree. I get the feeling it'd have kept the Transdev fanboys at bay too. I do think there were some major failings with the original design consultants though. They admitted when questioned on Twitter that they didn't do much in the way of research of other operators liveries. Although you'd have hoped folk at GNW would have been aware of it and asked for a bit of a redesign.

Regarding the last paragraph, it does seem there are a few enthusiasts that do believe everything a company does has to be done to please them, the majority of which will probably never even use the bus.

As for different brands looking like different companies, this does happen. My in-laws always used to get a taxi and a train when they wanted to head into Manchester, they always thought the company that operated the bus that stopped literally right outside their house was different to the one that ran into Manchester. Of course basic research would have told them that wasn't the case, but unless it's obvious then those that aren't used to using the bus won't even realise.

 

[Alexbus12]

Good lord - you do wonder why bus companies bother when some folk would seem happy to have an all dealer white machine with BUS slapped on the front!

Then I cant quite understand why they bothered to do a big launch... for a new livery. I could understand it if it had features which aren't on every bus.

First of all, the Go North West name is slapped on the side and with any new launch, some people will need a bit of time to get used to it.

There's a tiny logo above the doors in the same colour as the livery.. hardly makes it noticable.

The one criticism I have is that actually, this colour scheme is what GNW should've had for their standard livery

I agree.

Nigel Featham is a bright guy and knows his stuff and will also know that any investment will only be justified by increased patronage and improved financial performance, not rounds of applauses from Stenning fanboys.

I don't disagree, I think he's very good at what he does. Though I think the marketing department have gone the wrong way about this. Had this new brand featured something like WiFi, USB ports or even spaced out seating ( rather than the traditional cramped ADL spec'd seating) then it would have been worthy of being a very good brand. Currently, meh. I do hope WiFi is installed in the near future.

 

[cnjb8]

Then I cant quite understand why they bothered to do a big launch... for a new livery. I could understand it if it had features which aren't on every bus.


There's a tiny logo above the doors in the same colour as the livery.. hardly makes it noticable.
I agree.


I don't disagree, I think he's very good at what he does. Though I think the marketing department have gone the wrong way about this. Had this new brand featured something like WiFi, USB ports or even spaced out seating ( rather than the traditional cramped ADL spec'd seating) then it would have been worthy of being a very good brand. Currently, meh. I do hope WiFi is installed in the near future.

Maybe the interior is temporary. You never know!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Then I cant quite understand why they bothered to do a big launch... for a new livery. I could understand it if it had features which aren't on every bus.

Because it's about marketing and publicity. They are improving the quality of the vehicles on there (better than Streetlites) and improving the visibility and image of the service. Why do you think firms like Unilever spend millions on promoting their washing powder when fundamentally, it hasn't changed??

There's a tiny logo above the doors in the same colour as the livery.. hardly makes it noticable.

It's not exactly small though not the biggest either https://www.flickr.com/photos/bengl...29boqwW-28Ds2h5-2hL97kL-2i9vMo6-mCXgBE-qrgKSr but evidently the thinking is to push the "brand" for the route rather than having a huge GNW fleetname

I think the marketing department have gone the wrong way about this.

I take it you're from an enthusiast POV?

I got dropped into "covering marketing" when the manager left a previous employer. Marketing is one of those things where people think "how hard can it be"? Very is the answer!!

Items like spaced out seating and USBs would be appropriate for other routes (such as a relaunch of the Warrington service?) but for this, and the average journey length, they're not really appropriate.

 

[Alexbus12]

Because it's about marketing and publicity. They are improving the quality of the vehicles on there (better than Streetlites) and improving the visibility and image of the service. Why do you think firms like Unilever spend millions on promoting their washing powder when fundamentally, it hasn't changed??

I got dropped into "covering marketing" when the manager left a previous employer. Marketing is one of those things where people think "how hard can it be"? Very is the answer!!

Items like spaced out seating and USBs would be appropriate for other routes (such as a relaunch of the Warrington service?) but for this, and the average journey length, they're not really appropriate.

I can understand were you're coming from etc, I just expected more and was slightly disappointed. Maybe I'm looking at it through that perspective because of other companies who have done rebrands and what they featured.

 

[cnjb8]

There is also MCR along with GNW fleetnames. I dont really see the problem tbh

 

[Andyh82]

Then I cant quite understand why they bothered to do a big launch... for a new livery. I could understand it if it had features which aren't on every bus.

Maybe the launch was to actually promote that the services actually exist? And the attractive new livery will make people actually notice them?

When was the last time First ever promoted these, or indeed any services in Manchester, to anyone who wasn’t already using them?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe the launch was to actually promote that the services actually exist? And the attractive new livery will make people actually notice them?

When was the last time First ever promoted these, or indeed any services in Manchester, to anyone who wasn’t already using them?

Exactly the point I made in connection with the 582 but representing a wider general malaise with First GM. The promotion, internally and externally, was abject. Earlier in my post from Dec 2018, I said "So what is wrong with First GM? Better people than me will know more accurately but the take aways for me were a badly skewed age profile with vehicles looking a bit tired (though not too bad for a 13 year old Eclipse). However, the 12 plate e400 was a really telling sight. Not a bad bus really but the interior (on a cold and wet day) was hardly inviting with standard grey eLeather. The internal adverts (when not telling you off) were probably new with the bus. Nothing really to grab you and my penultimate journey (don't worry, coming to it later) summed it up."

That's the point. Dull, uninspiring, insipid, inside and out.

 

[Alexbus12]

Maybe the launch was to actually promote that the services actually exist? And the attractive new livery will make people actually notice them?

When was the last time First ever promoted these, or indeed any services in Manchester, to anyone who wasn’t already using them?

Maybe it was. But my point still stands, there was a high expectation for something that didn't materialise.

I agree with you regarding First. Vantage was probably, and still is, the only service the Manchester division advertises.

 

[radamfi]

The need for regular re-branding due to change of operator and inevitable tinkering with routes is a hidden cost of the British bus system. This adds to the confusion for passengers, compounding the negative effects of frequent timetable changes. Strong brands can be simple and be in existence for decades, or maybe even 100+ years. Obviously there is the iconic plain red of London buses. For a while, tendering brought in a variety of colours but that was eventually seen to be counter-productive, not to mention wasteful. Obviously outside the UK there are many long-standing liveries. For example, the Swiss Postbus yellow.

https://www.postauto.ch/en/about-postbus

PostBus is a traditional Swiss company, which has provided high-quality regional passenger transport services for more than 100 years. Its yellow livery is a hallmark of the brand, as is the three-tone post horn known around the world.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe it was. But my point still stands, there was a high expectation for something that didn't materialise.

I agree with you regarding First. Vantage was probably, and still is, the only service the Manchester division advertises.

You had an expectation but who created that expectation....were you advertised something that wasn't then delivered? Or are you judging against something else but again, what is that right comparator? Surely the correct comparison is against current?

The need for regular re-branding due to change of operator and inevitable tinkering with routes is a hidden cost of the British bus system. This adds to the confusion for passengers, compounding the negative effects of frequent timetable changes. Strong brands can be simple and be in existence for decades, or maybe even 100+ years. Obviously there is the iconic plain red of London buses. For a while, tendering brought in a variety of colours but that was eventually seen to be counter-productive, not to mention wasteful. Obviously outside the UK there are many long-standing liveries. For example, the Swiss Postbus yellow.

https://www.postauto.ch/en/about-postbus

The "hidden cost" is negligible. For instance, Arriva is rolling out a new livery but repaints only when due as part of a standard repaint programme or introduced with new vehicles.

The iconic red of London buses has changed at various times in terms of application etc. And of course, there are plenty of other examples of rebranding on the continent in the last 25 years whether that be Berlin going from khaki to yellow or Paris from dark green and white to white and sky blue. Even Copenhagen has different livery applications (albeit with a common yellow base) with different accent colours for different route types.

 

[Alexbus12]

You had an expectation but who created that expectation....were you advertised something that wasn't then delivered? Or are you judging against something else but again, what is that right comparator? Surely the correct comparison is against current?

I had read in the North West Bus Blog, who from what I gathered received an exclusive photo before the launch, that they has been extensively refurbished, I'd link the article but their website is no longer up and running.
So had assumed they'd have had the additional features.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I had read in the North West Bus Blog, who from what I gathered received an exclusive photo before the launch, that they has been extensively refurbished, I'd link the article but their website is no longer up and running.
So had assumed they'd have had the additional features.

What did the man say...

John Roxburgh, Operations Manager at Go North West, said: "Our investment in a revitalised fleet of buses for Manchester’s Orbits marks a real step up in quality for customers on the 52 and 53. When we took the reins from First back in June, we promised significant investment in our fleet, and I’m really delighted that we’re now able to deliver on those promises."

The press release said "They’re getting ready for lift off - a £1million investment in buses for Manchester hits the road this weekend! We've invested in a fleet of buses for Manchester’s Orbits, the bold new identity for bus routes 52 and 53 in the city. They’ll be officially unveiled by your Orbits crew on Market Street on Saturday 4 January!

The investment in newer buses is a huge upgrade for two important bus routes which connect many of our city's suburbs. The 52 runs from Failsworth to Salford Shopping City and the intu Trafford Centre, whilst the 53 - Manchester’s oldest unchanged bus route - takes an orbital circuit of the city, connecting Cheetham Hill with North Manchester General Hospital, Blackley, Harpurhey, Sportcity, Gorton, Belle Vue, Longsight, Rusholme, Salford Quays and Pendleton.

12 low-emission single decker buses featuring a new, bright orange brand identity will begin to hit the roads from Sunday 5 January, bringing new levels of comfort and reliability, a better ride quality and lower emissions for our customers across the city."

Best read that rather than some independent bus blog....

 

[radamfi]

The "hidden cost" is negligible. For instance, Arriva is rolling out a new livery but repaints only when due as part of a standard repaint programme or introduced with new vehicles.

Rather than the cost of painting, as that happens routinely, I'm really thinking about the design costs and also the cost of brand confusion.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Rather than the cost of painting, as that happens routinely, I'm really thinking about the design costs and also the cost of brand confusion.

Design costs are not large.

Cost of brand confusion.... How much is that typically?

If so, why do businesses rebrand products??

 

[radamfi]

Design costs are not large.

Cost of brand confusion.... How much is that typically?

If so, why do businesses rebrand products??

If people are confused about what bus is what and whether they can use their ticket then that is not ideal. Branding is needed when a new product is coming into the marketplace. But if the product is already established and popular then rebranding is not necessary and can be counterproductive. There are many examples of disastrous rebrands which are then rolled back.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If people are confused about what bus is what and whether they can use their ticket then that is not ideal.

Bad communication is bad communication - whether in a controlled or commercial environment. It's like any change - communication is key.

Branding is needed when a new product is coming into the marketplace. But if the product is already established and popular then rebranding is not necessary and can be counterproductive. There are many examples of disastrous rebrands which are then rolled back.

Branding is not the preserve of new products. It can be used to refresh an existing product - plenty of examples of that.

Bad rebrands are the same as anything that is "bad" or poorly executed - get it wrong and yes, it may be disastrous. However, working on that basis, you'd not do anything with the perception being that of complacency.

And of course, rebranding is not confined to the private sector.... see WMPTE, to Centro, to Network West Midlands, to TfWM

 

[Mal]

Does anyone know if GNW are renumbering the fleet? I know about the need for 5 digit numbers for refuelling, but on another Forum there is a photo of an Orbit (WA12 ACZ) with fleetnumber 6153. This same bus is also shown on another site as 74010 on another reliable site.

 

[mic]

Does anyone know if GNW are renumbering the fleet? I know about the need for 5 digit numbers for refuelling, but on another Forum there is a photo of an Orbit (WA12 ACZ) with fleetnumber 6153. This same bus is also shown on another site as 74010 on another reliable site.

69325 is now 6101 and 69420 is now 6104 so it looks like renumbering could be happening but i saw a not very well 37400 repainted with 37400 fleet number applied