Good news on the heart of wales line

[robert2000]

Knighton loop was completed today, the final passing loop to be replaced aswell.
I think this is great news, so what happens next then?
Timings for the 5th daily train maybe, lol.

 

[merlodlliw]

Knighton loop was completed today, the final passing loop to be replaced aswell.
I think this is great news, so what happens next then?
Timings for the 5th daily train maybe, lol.

Who is going to pay for it to run.

Powys & Carmarthen Councils are too cash strapped to support, & current pay for the two Sunday services,both CCs are looking for reducing cost not increasing.

WAG is the other option, but without CC money involved it wont

ATW wont run it without cash injection from subsidies

5th train sometime perhaps, that means 4 extra staff to run it, & maybe extra dmus,I will agree this line is the only public transport in some of the areas it serves

my opinion

 

[Greenback]

A 5th daily train is no more than a long term aspiration. It won't be happening any time soon!

 

[robert2000]

hahaha, i do like to laugh.

The amount of money they charge us to use thye trains, they will get the money back on the extra services, more people will use it because they are guaranteed a good length of time in their destination, and guaranteed to get home the same day, lol.

 

[sprinterguy]

Introducing the fifth train will spread patronage across a greater number of services. Whilst the new service is likely to generate some extra custom, it is unlikely to generate an extra train loads' worth of people. Even if it did, the current train service is already subsidised, so adding an extra train, even if it was well loaded, would still increase the amount of subsidy required.

An extra DMU is likely to be required: I imagine that the introduction of a fifth train would not occur until the Sprinter cascade from LM has occured, allowing FGW to return four 150s to ATW, so not before June 2011. And I suspect December 2011 would be more likely for the actual introduction of the service.

Great news to hear that work has been done on the Heart of Wales and progress has been made. It's good to see investment outside of the large cities and major Intercity routes.

 

[Polarbear]

In the lastest issue of Todays Railways UK, it's suggested that the extra weekday service on the HOW line would be difficult to resource, as an extra train & associated crew would be required.

However, a 3rd Sunday service each way is more likely as this wouldn't need so much extra resource.

There is also some talk, (long term I'm guessing), of having some sort of semi-fast service too.

Arriva is currently meeting the franchise commitment for the line, so I doubt there will be any significant changes until the franchise is re-let.

 

[merlodlliw]

In the lastest issue of Todays Railways UK, it's suggested that the extra weekday service on the HOW line would be difficult to resource, as an extra train & associated crew would be required.

However, a 3rd Sunday service each way is more likely as this wouldn't need so much extra resource.

There is also some talk, (long term I'm guessing), of having some sort of semi-fast service too.

Arriva is currently meeting the franchise commitment for the line, so I doubt there will be any significant changes until the franchise is re-let.

Who will pay for the third Sunday service? semi fast on the HOWL, with the majority of stations by hands up, bypassing Llandod comes to mindit wont happen
until white diesel is £2 a litre (£10 a gallon)

 

[robert2000]

well the passing loops are all working, its a start anyway.

all agree yes?

 

[merlodlliw]

well the passing loops are all working, its a start anyway.

all agree yes?

Any investment on the rails in rural areas is welcome.

 

[paul1609]

Who is going to pay for it to run.

Powys & Carmarthen Councils are too cash strapped to support, & current pay for the two Sunday services,both CCs are looking for reducing cost not increasing.

WAG is the other option, but without CC money involved it wont

I rather imagine that come the spending review in October the WAG is going to be somewhat cash strapped as well. Cuts are far more likely than extra services.

 

[tbtc]

Aren't there still single track sections on the Valley Lines? I can think of places more in need of an extra passing loop than the Heart of Wales

 

[robert2000]

yes, chester to wrexham, but that will never happen

 

[merlodlliw]

yes, chester to wrexham, but that will never happen

A lot of feet dragging on this one at the moment, I have a feeling the double tracking on the West Cheshire/Chester side may be delayed due to the Regional Development Agency for the North West about to be killed off along with the others in England. The new replacement Agencies will be more localised I am informed, hence a railway line may not be seen as so important when it runs into another Country.

The funding in Wales is supposed to be safe? but this line crosses a border with
two different funders. I fear the worst, hope I am wrong, but the WAG paying for brand new
buses to let Arriva run a 12 minute service Wrexham to Chester Station & return says it all.

 

[emoaconr]

Arriva run a 12 minute service Wrexham to Chester Station & return says it all.

Well that's gone down in the world, it used to be every 10!

 

[The Planner]

As much as you often write the obituary of this scheme, its still there.....

 

[merlodlliw]

Well that's gone down in the world, it used to be every 10!

it was always 5 an hour, every 12 mins.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As much as you often write the obituary of this scheme, its still there.....

But when Planner? with all the funding chops imminent,

 

[Proud Salopian]

Good news about Knighton. Doubt there will be a fifth service on the line this decade though!

Really what the Heart of Wales Line needs is new(er) rolling stock. The line could really be promoted as a tourist line, but the current DMUs let it down and aren't good enough for sightseers/tourists.

Is there still the possibility of trains starting/ending at Crewe? Not sure if that would have much benefit, but you could combine the services/rolling stock of the Heart of Wales Line and the local Shrewsbury-Crewe (calling at Yorton et al.) route.

 

[merlodlliw]

Good news about Knighton. Doubt there will be a fifth service on the line this decade though!

Really what the Heart of Wales Line needs is new(er) rolling stock. The line could really be promoted as a tourist line, but the current DMUs let it down and aren't good enough for sightseers/tourists.

Is there still the possibility of trains starting/ending at Crewe? Not sure if that would have much benefit, but you could combine the services/rolling stock of the Heart of Wales Line and the local Shrewsbury-Crewe (calling at Yorton et al.) route.

I do recall a Swansea/Shrewsbury running through to Crewe, not all of course his may have been on a Sunday, only a few years ago or less.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Yeah I remember when a few did go Crewe-Swansea via the Heart of Wales line.

 

[mr williams]

There've been five each way in the past - I worked for a summer in a hotel in mid-Wales in the late 70s and I remember there were 5 trains each way Mon - Sat. They left Shrewsbury at approx 04.00, 06.00, 10.00, 14.00 and 18.00.

For a year or two around 1988/89 the 5 each way were supplemented at the northern end by a sixth round trip that only ran between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury and at the southern end a sixth and SEVENTH between Swansea and Llandovery! The recession put said to them and it went back to the basic five each way.

No Sunday services in those days

 

[merlodlliw]

There've been five each way in the past - I worked for a summer in a hotel in mid-Wales in the late 70s and I remember there were 5 trains each way Mon - Sat. They left Shrewsbury at approx 04.00, 06.00, 10.00, 14.00 and 18.00.

For a year or two around 1988/89 the 5 each way were supplemented at the northern end by a sixth round trip that only ran between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury and at the southern end a sixth and SEVENTH between Swansea and Llandovery! The recession put said to them and it went back to the basic five each way.

No Sunday services in those days

I recall the 0400 ex Shrewsbury, it carried post to sorting offices along the line,also there was a direct York to Aberystwyth TPO which also carried news.
I also recall no Sunday services on the Shrewsbury to Aber line except the news which left Shrewsbury on Sunday morning around 0330 this started at Crewe,but went to road traffic in the 60s.

 

[krus_aragon]

That's very good news. It removes one of the reasons for not having a more regular service.

There is also some talk, (long term I'm guessing), of having some sort of semi-fast service too.

Thinking of the many small level crossings at the southern end that are "Stop, Whistle, Proceed", I'd agree that a semi-fast is a while off.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Heart of Wales had 8 through trains a day between Swansea and Shrewsbury in 1951. How many other lines have a less frequent service than in steam day?

 

[robert2000]

Its a nice line and everyone loves the heart of wales. Its just the timings on the line that are not good really, do we agree?

 

[The Planner]

The Heart of Wales had 8 through trains a day between Swansea and Shrewsbury in 1951. How many other lines have a less frequent service than in steam day?

How many people on that line had cars 60 years ago compared to now ??

 

[merlodlliw]

Its a nice line and everyone lives the heart of wales. Its just the timings on the line that are not good really, do we agree?

As the number of trains will not increase for a long time,how Robert would you retime the present ones.

Also the current Sunday service I understand is being looked at by the County Councils that fund the service of two trains (Powys & Carmarthen), perhaps we may see a return to Summer only like the Junction to Llandudno line, hope not. The only thing in favour is this line(Swansea to Shrewsbury) is this is only means of public transport,no buses in many areas.
All County Councils in Wales are putting forward transport plans that include massive cuts, this would also include the Wrexham Bidston line where Wrexham Councils pays for the Sunday early morning and late evening trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How many people on that line had cars 60 years ago compared to now ??

True planner, use it or loose it. But if we see white diesel up to £10 a gallon(more than halfway there already) people will change their minds,that is if the rattlers are still running,4 to 5 pence a litre increase from 1st Jan due to vat & Country areas always have the biggest prices, hence £6 a gallon.

 

[The Planner]

No they wont, people will pay it as they will still want the convenience of going where they want when they want, they will just do it less often. Do you really think putting the price up of booze and fags has a massive impact on their usage ??

 

[merlodlliw]

No they wont, people will pay it as they will still want the convenience of going where they want when they want, they will just do it less often. Do you really think putting the price up of booze and fags has a massive impact on their usage ??

I agree they will use the car less, but a few may change their minds, may be too late then, but a social train is needed on this line, If the dosh is there to pay for it, ATW wont and the Councils cash is shaky to subsidise it.

 

[Greenback]

No they wont, people will pay it as they will still want the convenience of going where they want when they want, they will just do it less often. Do you really think putting the price up of booze and fags has a massive impact on their usage ??

It has had an effect on cigarettes. Much fewer people smoke now, although this can be put down to other factors as well as cost. A lot of people who do still smoke buy smuggled cigarettes and tobacco, the black market in fags is alive and kicking!

When it comes to the cost of fuel, there will be a point at which the balance is tipped towards public transport. That point will be different for each individual depending on their circumstances, including where they live. Economical public transport is essential if people on lower incomes are not priced out of travel entirely. This is where local railcards and season tickets need to be promoted effectively, and not just on the HoW.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Its a nice line and everyone loves the heart of wales. Its just the timings on the line that are not good really, do we agree?

The BR Manager who cut it from 5 trains to 4 admitted on more than one occasion he also lost 50% of the revenue!

The crux of the whole rural line thing is that if you have them they have to be used properly otherwise its a total drain on the taxpayer. As an occasional scenic ride its lovely but the HoW produces few real "outcomes" due to how its run. On many other rural lines the last couple of decades has seen the rise of the "city region" and commuting by rail from rural areas into provisional city centers has grown very strongly. Of course the HoW has been denied this by the truncation of the Central Wales line from Pontarddulais to Swansea Victoria. Going to Llanelli was a huge mistake (sorry Greenback), the largest town in Wales without a railway station- Gorseinion (pop c17,000) was on that stretch plus the western suburbs of Swansea, the University and ironically it terminated in where the city centre of Swansea has migrated to the SA1 redevelopment area.

It clearly cant be operated at the lowest possible cost as its part of the mainstream franchised railway over NR track. The Heart of Wales Line Forum have been campaigning for a number of years to be allowed to try and run a vertically integrated micro franchise over the line with stock stabled at Llandovery overnight producing a better timetable including commuter timed arrivals into Swansea.

The deep rural line debate will remain forever sterile unless something new like this is tried.