Govia Thameslink Railway witness statement receipt - UPDATE out of court settlement!

[Lakshi]

Hello,

You may have read posts similar to this a lot before but unfortunately I have landed myself in a sticky situation due to poor judgement.

I have a long history of purchasing all the correct tickets but used some 'sandwich tickets' in the past couple of months due to frequent travel and being tight on funds.

Today I was caught by an inspector who took down my details and didn't offer me a penalty fare (don't know why even though on her records she could see this was the first time I was stopped). She also asked me if I had the funds to pay the ticket right now to which I said yes. (The journey was from Cambridge to Farringdon but I had bought a short ticket to Shelford to get through the barriers at Cambridge). She checked my Trainline app but didn't see the precious short tickets, only the ones properly paid for. All this has happened today.

However, ofcourse I am now very anxious because I have to wait for GTR to write to me so I can explain my situation to them and apologise for my mistake. I have learned my lesson and will not repeat any of this again and would be very happy to pay the outstanding fee or admin costs. I just want to settle out of court. Any advice on how to increase my chances of an out of court settlement would be very appreciated.

I don't want this to show up on my clean record and impact jobs etc especially since I'm on a work visa.

Note - the inspector told me after issuing the receipt that "she normally wouldn't tell anyone this but she wants to look out for me" as it was my first offence - to contact GTR online and write to them about today being honest and apologetic. I did email an address I found on their FAQ page but the automatic reply said they don't consider appeals or motivations on it.

Not sure what the inspector meant but I hope her report wouldn't be too harsh. Also unsure if they will definitely go into my Trainline history?

Please help, thank you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

You may have read posts similar to this a lot before but unfortunately I have landed myself in a sticky situation due to poor judgement.

I have a long history of purchasing all the correct tickets but used some 'sandwich tickets' in the past couple of months due to frequent travel and being tight on funds.

Today I was caught by an inspector who took down my details and didn't offer me a penalty fare (don't know why even though on her records she could see this was the first time I was stopped). She also asked me if I had the funds to pay the ticket right now to which I said yes. (The journey was from Cambridge to Farringdon but I had bought a short ticket to Shelford to get through the barriers at Cambridge). She checked my Trainline app but didn't see the precious short tickets, only the ones properly paid for. All this has happened today.

However, ofcourse I am now very anxious because I have to wait for GTR to write to me so I can explain my situation to them and apologise for my mistake. I have learned my lesson and will not repeat any of this again and would be very happy to pay the outstanding fee or admin costs. I just want to settle out of court. Any advice on how to increase my chances of an out of court settlement would be very appreciated.

I don't want this to show up on my clean record and impact jobs etc especially since I'm on a work visa.

Note - the inspector told me after issuing the receipt that "she normally wouldn't tell anyone this but she wants to look out for me" as it was my first offence - to contact GTR online and write to them about today being honest and apologetic. I did email an address I found on their FAQ page but the automatic reply said they don't consider appeals or motivations on it.

Not sure what the inspector meant but I hope her report wouldn't be too harsh. Also unsure if they will definitely go into my Trainline history?

Please help, thank you.

Hi and welcome

Firstly, despite what the inspector said, don't write / e-mail them until they contact you. As you have found on their website they do not accept messages in that way. You will just have to wait to hear from them but it is vital you receive that and respond when you hear. I assume you gave a correct postal address where you can be contacted over the next weeks / months - they usually write hard copy in the post.

Ref Penalty Fares - there is no automatic right to be issued with one. If they suspect deliberate evasion they are more likely to report you for investigation to see if you have a digital fingerprint of such behaviour, which the back office need to investigate, not the inspectors. Penalty fares can not be issued retrospectively. If they discover previous evasion they will be wanting a payment to cover the fares you have evaded - which is probably more than the cost of a £50 Penalty Fare - this is also because people would weigh up that the chances of getting charged £50 now and again is worth the savings their evasion achieves.

One thing you can do now is start to compile your own private record of the occasion when you have evaded the fares and work out the cost of the tickets you have evaded, at the full Anytime Single fare. Then you can save that money up because if they agree to settle out of court (they very often do) you will need to have those funds ready to make a prompt payment and in full.

There are lots of other threads on here involving Thameslink so you can look at a few to see how this plays out which will help you prepare yourself for what will happen.

 

[Lakshi]

Hi and welcome

Firstly, despite what the inspector said, don't write / e-mail them until they contact you. As you have found on their website they do not accept messages in that way. You will just have to wait to hear from them but it is vital you receive that and respond when you hear. I assume you gave a correct postal address where you can be contacted over the next weeks / months - they usually write hard copy in the post.

Ref Penalty Fares - there is no automatic right to be issued with one. If they suspect deliberate evasion they are more likely to report you for investigation to see if you have a digital fingerprint of such behaviour, which the back office need to investigate, not the inspectors. Penalty fares can not be issued retrospectively. If they discover previous evasion they will be wanting a payment to cover the fares you have evaded - which is probably more than the cost of a £50 Penalty Fare - this is also because people would weigh up that the chances of getting charged £50 now and again is worth the savings their evasion achieves.

One thing you can do now is start to compile your own private record of the occasion when you have evaded the fares and work out the cost of the tickets you have evaded, at the full Anytime Single fare. Then you can save that money up because if they agree to settle out of court (they very often do) you will need to have those funds ready to make a prompt payment and in full.

There are lots of other threads on here involving Thameslink so you can look at a few to see how this plays out which will help you prepare yourself for what will happen.

Hi,

Thanks for replying. I am willing to dip into my savings to pay all the outstanding amount, however, unfortunately, since I panicked I took the inspectors advice as she said she was looking out for me - I emailed an address saying this is my first offence (which they would know its not if they investigate). hopefully they will ignore my email as they don't consider them in that particular inbox?
This way I will use my opportunity when I receive the letter to apologize and request to settle out of court.

Please help if anyone has any insight about the email I've sent

 

[30907]

Please help if anyone has any insight about the email I've sent

Don't worry about it. Even if it gets forwarded to the Prosecutions people, they are used to people telling lies and generally ore concerned about reducing the financial hit caused by fare evasion.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will say that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. The good news for you is that GTR almost always offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

When the letter arrives, post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

I don't want this to show up on my clean record and impact jobs etc especially since I'm on a work visa.

The law doesn't allow us to advise on immigration or work visa issues. You have committed a criminal offence and GTR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistyrates Court if they want to. It is up to GTR to decide how to proceed but as I mentioned earlier they normally offer a settlement in lieu of prosecution as long as you co-operate with them.

 

[Lakshi]

Don't worry about it. Even if it gets forwarded to the Prosecutions people, they are used to people telling lies and generally ore concerned about reducing the financial hit caused by fare evasion.

Thanks for responding. I was wondering if I should write another email asking them to please disregard the precious one, and that I would wait for them to write to me and take the chance to be transparent with them officially?

Welcome to the forum!

GTR will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will say that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. The good news for you is that GTR almost always offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

When the letter arrives, post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.


The law doesn't allow us to advise on immigration or work visa issues. You have committed a criminal offence and GTR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistyrates Court if they want to. It is up to GTR to decide how to proceed but as I mentioned earlier they normally offer a settlement in lieu of prosecution as long as you co-operate with them.

Thank you, once I receive the letter I will post it here. I am also going to move houses next month, so I will likely email them at that time with my new address, hopefully they don't miss that email of mine as i ofcourse don't want to miss any correspondence

Based on some other threads I read, I'm also wondering if I should just bring up my history myself of the other short tickets and offer to pay for those? Since as @Hadders has mentioned in some other places, they may contact me about those at a later date and I would like to avoid that as I don't want to come to their attention a second time?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for responding. I was wondering if I should write another email asking them to please disregard the precious one, and that I would wait for them to write to me and take the chance to be transparent with them officially?


Thank you, once I receive the letter I will post it here. I am also going to move houses next month, so I will likely email them at that time with my new address, hopefully they don't miss that email of mine as i ofcourse don't want to miss any correspondence

Based on some other threads I read, I'm also wondering if I should just bring up my history myself of the other short tickets and offer to pay for those? Since as @Hadders has mentioned in some other places, they may contact me about those at a later date and I would like to avoid that as I don't want to come to their attention a second time?

I think best not to keep e mailing them. Keep your head down now. Wait for their letter.

Head back here when you hear from them.

 

[Lakshi]

I think best not to keep e mailing them. Keep your head down now. Wait for their letter.

Head back here when you hear from them.

Okay, thank you

The reason I thought to email again is because in about a month I will have to email to let them know about my address change

 

[Lakshi]

Hi all, I haven't received the letter yet but was hoping to get some guidance on an email I have to send them as I'm moving houses and want them to update my address, hope my below email is okay?

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Subject - Address Change Notice

Reference - GTREMGxxxxx (should I put this in the subject?)

To Govia Thameslink Railway,

This is with reference to the incident that happened on 22nd of January when I was issued with a witness statement receipt at Finsbury park.

I am moving from the current address on the 15th of February and wish to update you so I can receive any correspondence.

To confirm, the address I am currently at, at provided at the time of the incident is xxxxxx,
and my new address will be xxxxxx.

I will also divert any mail from my precious address to the new one for 3 months to make sure I don't miss anything.

I will be out of the country from 17th April to 3rd May, I hope this will not be a problem in responding timely to your letter.

Please ignore any previous email sent, I will respond to your letter when it comes and fully cooperate with you.

Thank you,
Name

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Again, thank you so much for your help to those who have been replying

 

[Hadders]

This emai is fine, although I'd remove the sentence about ignoring the previous email. just emd it by saying 'I will respond to your letter and fully co-operate with you'.

You must include the full case reference number.

 

[Lakshi]

This emai is fine, although I'd remove the sentence about ignoring the previous email. just emd it by saying 'I will respond to your letter and fully co-operate with you'.

You must include the full case reference number.

Thank you! I'll make the change, I just really hope they do ignore the panic stricken email I had sent.

Also I know my dates of leave have nothing to do with them and that they will send their letter when they do regardless, but any ideas on what I can do about this? Since from what I've noticed based on how long it takes after the offence to get the letter, there is a strong chance it may come during my leave.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you! I'll make the change, I just really hope they do ignore the panic stricken email I had sent.

Also I know my dates of leave have nothing to do with them and that they will send their letter when they do regardless, but any ideas on what I can do about this? Since from what I've noticed based on how long it takes after the offence to get the letter, there is a strong chance it may come during my leave.

You could add a line in your email asking if they will send any correspondance to you via email while you are away. I'm not sure they will agree so but there's nothing wrong with asking.

Will there be anyone at your address who can access your post while you're away?

GTR will allow a few days grace when it comes to replies because they know the postal system is not perfect. Even if their letter landed on yor doormat on the 17th April, as long as you dealt with it immediately upon your return then I don't believe it will adversely impact the chances of them offering you an out of court settlement.

 

[Lakshi]

You could add a line in your email asking if they will send any correspondance to you via email while you are away. I'm not sure they will agree so but there's nothing wrong with asking.

Will there be anyone at your address who can access your post while you're away?

GTR will allow a few days grace when it comes to replies because they know the postal system is not perfect. Even if their letter landed on yor doormat on the 17th April, as long as you dealt with it immediately upon your return then I don't believe it will adversely impact the chances of them offering you an out of court settlement.

That's helpful advice, I'll ask if I could receive email correspondence at the time I'm away. Unfortunately there won't be anyone else (it is a house share but since I haven't moved i dont know anyone yet and wouldn't want to trust them to respond correctly on my behalf or even take the trouble), but thank you, that's very helpful!

 

[Lakshi]

Hi everyone, GTR have emailed me a letter!! but its not an intention to prosecute one like I was expecting, attaching the email and letter screenshots (it's also much earlier than expected but I believe it is due to my email regarding the address change). The letter doesn't ask for my explanation but ofcourse I am happy to provide it apologise and request to settle by paying all my dues and admin fee - would that still be the appropriate response? Unsure as i didn't come across a similar letter on the forum as yet, thanks for all the help so far! There are 3 screenshots

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone, GTR have emailed me a letter!! but its not an intention to prosecute one like I was expecting, attaching the email and letter screenshots (it's also much earlier than expected but I believe it is due to my email regarding the address change). The letter doesn't ask for my explanation but ofcourse I am happy to provide it apologise and request to settle by paying all my dues and admin fee - would that still be the appropriate response? Unsure as i didn't come across a similar letter on the forum as yet, thanks for all the help so far! There are 3 screenshots

Yes, wait for some advice here as it's not that common (but does sometimes happen) that they want to discuss cases with you. It's usually advised that you find a way to avoid discussing it - to prevent risk of incriminating yourself in what might seem like a 'friendly chat' - but it is vital you respond of course.

Is there anything else on your ticket buying records (and this could include going back for some time - eg a year or more) that they may find suspicious and want to ask you about? That is often the reason why they want to 'discuss' matters with people.

 

[Haywain]

would that still be the appropriate response?

Yes. We sometimes see this sort of letter from GTR where they believe they have uncovered a significant level of fare evasion. They may wish to arrange a call to speak to you, presumably to be more comfortable that you are genuinely going to change your ways. They are still likely to offer a settlement if you co-operate.

 

[Lakshi]

Yes, wait for some advice here as it's not that common (but does sometimes happen) that they want to discuss cases with you. It's usually advised that you find a way to avoid discussing it - to prevent risk of incriminating yourself in what might seem like a 'friendly chat' - but it is vital you respond of course.

Is there anything else on your ticket buying records (and this could include going back for some time - eg a year or more) that they may find suspicious and want to ask you about? That is often the reason why they want to 'discuss' matters with people.

No, the fares evaded were in November and December 2024 and the couple in January 2025 only, before that all tickets were valid and completely paid (I had gone back and double checked my records too) but what you said worries me, I don't want them to misunderstand any of my previous fares?

Yes. We sometimes see this sort of letter from GTR where they believe they have uncovered a significant level of fare evasion. They may wish to arrange a call to speak to you, presumably to be more comfortable that you are genuinely going to change your ways. They are still likely to offer a settlement if you co-operate.

There are about 10 instances in all from November 2024, would that be significant? What should my response in this case be?

Also, the end of the letter says if I don't respond they will refer my case to the Prosecutions Department but i thought that's already where the case was handed

 

[Haywain]

There are about 10 instances in all from November 2024, would that be significant? What should my response in this case be?

I would suggest a letter in the usual recommended format, apologising for what you've done and promising that it won't be happening again, with a request that they offer you an opportunity to settle.

Also, the end of the letter says if I don't respond they will refer my case to the Prosecutions Department but i thought that's already where the case was handed

That just means they've looked a bit deeper.

 

[Lakshi]

Would the below response be okay to send as a reply to email?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To The Fraud Investigation Department,
Govia Thameslink Railway

I am writing to apologise and take accountability for not travelling with a correct ticket on 22nd January and other fares I have avoided.

I deeply regret my actions and understand the severity of the consequences actions such as mine have for the railway companies as well as other passengers. I have learned my lesson and will not be repeating this mistake again. I have since 22nd January ensured buying the correct fares for my journeys, as I should have always done.

I would be very grateful if you would allow me to settle this matter with GTR by paying all my dues as well as any administration fee that this investigation has incurred for you. I again apologise for my poor judgement and assure you of my willingness to cooperate with GTR to pay what I owe.

Thank you for your consideration.

Regards,
Name.

 

[WesternLancer]

No, the fares evaded were in November and December 2024 and the couple in January 2025 only, before that all tickets were valid and completely paid (I had gone back and double checked my records too) but what you said worries me, I don't want them to misunderstand any of my previous fares?


There are about 10 instances in all from November 2024, would that be significant? What should my response in this case be?

Also, the end of the letter says if I don't respond they will refer my case to the Prosecutions Department but i thought that's already where the case was handed

You might need to be prepared for them to send you a list of fares they think you may have evaded and you can check against your own records. Whether you want to specifically aks them to do that in your reply I am not sure - but it shows co-operation if you do (but your draft kind of intimates you are prepared for them to ask for money for other occasions) -

if you did want to address it specifically you could say along these lines 'please send me details of any occasions where you think I may not have paid a correct fare and I would be prepared to check my records and address the matter as best I can'

ie you indicate you are being fully co-operative

 

[Lakshi]

To The Fraud Investigation Department,
Govia Thameslink Railway

I am writing to apologise and take accountability for not travelling with a correct ticket on 22nd January and other fares I have avoided.

I deeply regret my actions and understand the severity of the consequences actions such as mine have for the railway companies as well as other passengers. I have learned my lesson and will not be repeating this mistake again. I have since 22nd January ensured buying the correct fares for my journeys, as I should have always done.

I would be very grateful if you would allow me to settle this matter with GTR by paying all my dues as well as any administration fee that this investigation has incurred for you. Please send me details of instances where you think I didn't pay the correct fare and I will be prepared to check records to address the matter the best I can. I again apologise for my poor judgement and assure you of my willingness to cooperate with GTR to pay what I owe and behave more responsibly henceforth.

Thank you for your consideration.

Regards,
Name.

Would the above reply be better in that case?

@Hadders would also appreciate any input please, thank you!

Sorry for asking again, but I hope the above reply is okay to send? I'm just thrown by the unexpected letter

Hi everyone, update, GTR emailed me a settlement offer after I sent the email above. They attached a spreadsheet, they did misunderstand one of the dates as a short ticket in December which wasn't one, but I told them about it and attached some proof and they took that specific ticket off. After I pay the remaining amount I will receive a written confirmation of the case being closed. Interestingly it happened without an intention to prosecute letter but I suppose this is not the usual way and had something to do with me emailing regarding moving houses. Thank you so much to everyone on here who helped out, I really appreciate it i had been so panicked when I started the thread! the

Since the last post merged with my previous one, update is as of 27/02

 

[Haywain]

Hi everyone, update, GTR emailed me a settlement offer after I sent the email above. They attached a spreadsheet, they did misunderstand one of the dates as a short ticket in December which wasn't one, but I told them about it and attached some proof and they took that specific ticket off. After I pay the remaining amount I will receive a written confirmation of the case being closed. Interestingly it happened without an intention to prosecute letter but I suppose this is not the usual way and had something to do with me emailing regarding moving houses. Thank you so much to everyone on here who helped out, I really appreciate it i had been so panicked when I started the thread! the

Since the last post merged with my previous one, update is as of 27/02

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[tonycockram]

What a satisfactory result for you!

Well done.

Any indication of the amount that Gtr charged for their administration?

Total amount I be paid, it helps I believe in understanding Gtr thought process and potential to take to court.

 

[Lakshi]

What a satisfactory result for you!

Well done.

Any indication of the amount that Gtr charged for their administration?

Total amount I be paid, it helps I believe in understanding Gtr thought process and potential to take to court.

They charged me 200 for their admin fee, although I've seen on the forum that they sometimes charge 150, but as older members pointed out they probably did a deeper dive and charged more for it?

Also worth mentioning, the fraud investigation officer who emailed me offered again for me to able to call him if I wanted to discuss their proposal further, but since it was pretty straightforward I didn't need to do so

Attaching a screenshot in case anyone could use some hope from GTR themselves

 

[WesternLancer]

They charged me 200 for their admin fee, although I've seen on the forum that they sometimes charge 150, but as older members pointed out they probably did a deeper dive and charged more for it?

Also worth mentioning, the fraud investigation officer who emailed me offered again for me to able to call him if I wanted to discuss their proposal further, but since it was pretty straightforward I didn't need to do so

Attaching a screenshot in case anyone could use some hope from GTR themselves

Good to hear - just keep all your paperwork / proof of payment etc and keep that long term (more than a year for sure) in case anything further crops up - unlikely but best to be safe and retain it in case ever needed

 

[Lakshi]

Good to hear - just keep all your paperwork / proof of payment etc and keep that long term (more than a year for sure) in case anything further crops up - unlikely but best to be safe and retain it in case ever needed

That's sensible, will do, thank you!

 

[1motm]

To The Fraud Investigation Department,
Govia Thameslink Railway

I am writing to apologise and take accountability for not travelling with a correct ticket on 22nd January and other fares I have avoided.

I deeply regret my actions and understand the severity of the consequences actions such as mine have for the railway companies as well as other passengers. I have learned my lesson and will not be repeating this mistake again. I have since 22nd January ensured buying the correct fares for my journeys, as I should have always done.

I would be very grateful if you would allow me to settle this matter with GTR by paying all my dues as well as any administration fee that this investigation has incurred for you. Please send me details of instances where you think I didn't pay the correct fare and I will be prepared to check records to address the matter the best I can. I again apologise for my poor judgement and assure you of my willingness to cooperate with GTR to pay what I owe and behave more responsibly henceforth.

Thank you for your consideration.

Regards,
Name.

Would the above reply be better in that case?

@Hadders would also appreciate any input please, thank you!

Sorry for asking again, but I hope the above reply is okay to send? I'm just thrown by the unexpected letter

Hi everyone, update, GTR emailed me a settlement offer after I sent the email above. They attached a spreadsheet, they did misunderstand one of the dates as a short ticket in December which wasn't one, but I told them about it and attached some proof and they took that specific ticket off. After I pay the remaining amount I will receive a written confirmation of the case being closed. Interestingly it happened without an intention to prosecute letter but I suppose this is not the usual way and had something to do with me emailing regarding moving houses. Thank you so much to everyone on here who helped out, I really appreciate it i had been so panicked when I started the thread! the

Since the last post merged with my previous one, update is as of 27/02

Hi Lakshi, do you mind sending me their email please, so I can contact - thanks!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Lakshi, do you mind sending me their email please, so I can contact - thanks!

I suspect you need to start your own thread and then people will give you the information you need.