Graffiti on trains

[Masbroughlad]

Currently in Leipzig and using the S-bahn regularly.

Why are so many of the trains covered with graffiti and in service? Many times you can't even see out of the windows.

Is security lax at depots? Surely the costs of removing graffiti or repaints must be more than improving security on depots?

I've seen it in other (German) cities too.

 

[306024]

If you are seeing so much graffiti the cost of removing it can't be much at all, as they obviously don't bother

But seriously, graffiti is an epidemic in mainland Europe compared to the UK. I'd vote Slovenia worst, with Italy a close second.

 

[duesselmartin]

yes, I am always surprised how well vandalism is dealth with in the UK and Ireland.
It seems to be a regional thing, some operators removing it more frequently than others.
Can anybody imagine a Flixbus running around with such grafitti? Also local transport companies seem less affected.

 

[northwichcat]

with Italy a close second.

When the Stereophonics released the album 'graffiti on the train' I actually thought they must have just come back from Italy when they recorded that album.

Some of the newer and nicer trains in Italy tend to be graffiti free - maybe the 'graffiti artists' target the older trains or maybe the newer and nicer ones are stored so they are harder to target.

I don't know if it's still the case but when I was there the CAF trains on the Rome Metro were pretty much graffiti free while the older stock (which was mainly restricted to peak time extras) had graffiti literally everywhere.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Belgium too has it's fair share , NS fairly rare ( I think) .....SBB zero. In my observations anyway.

Berlin U- and S Bahn seem to get attacked all the time. Then so does almost everywhere in the city.

 

[northwichcat]

Berlin U- and S Bahn seem to get attacked all the time. Then so does almost everywhere in the city.

The construction of the Berlin wall contributed to a graffiti culture.

More recently I don't think this music video helped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrlfFTS9kGU

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Currently in Leipzig and using the S-bahn regularly.
Why are so many of the trains covered with graffiti and in service? Many times you can't even see out of the windows.

And yet Leipzig Hbf must be one of the smartest stations on the DB network, very nicely restored and upgraded.
Much nicer to spend an hour in than the new Berlin Hbf.

I'd put Slovenia and Portugal bottom of the graffiti list (with Italy close behind, and the RER in Paris of course).
My EMU in Ljubljana had the oblong with the train data cleaned so they could read it, but they left the rest of the coach!

 

[Calthrop]

One might perhaps adopt a "glass-half-full" approach, and admire the artistic aspects of railway-applied graffiti: I've seen such in the Netherlands which -- if the trespassing-and-defacing aspect were set aside -- could have been thought rather fine stuff.

There comes to mind the business a few years ago, of the guy from some Western country who visited Singapore, and did a graffiti-type number on trains in sidings between duties, of the local Metro system. He was apprehended and brought to trial, with predictable results. One had to feel: how things are run in Singapore, is pretty much common knowledge. Of all the places in the world to choose for such a stunt, Singapore must be just about the least wise (well, I suppose a train-graffitist in Pyongyang, might fare yet worse)... Unless this gentleman was perhaps some kind of freedom-of-expression zealot, doing what he did as a principles-based gesture, and accepting his consequent martyrdom?

 

[317666]

Why are so many of the trains covered with graffiti and in service?.

Would you rather there was a reduced service or trains short-formed because of it being cleaned off? I've found that often DB will stick a poster on top of the graffiti explaining that they don't support it and it will be removed as soon as possible, particularly on the S-Bahn in Berlin.

I did see an amusing photo a while ago of an old Belgian EMU, where someone had actually graffitied the old dark red livery over the top of the current white livery!

 

[route101]

Quite bad in Serbia i seen ! Rome metro was covered.

 

[Gordon]

Would you rather there was a reduced service or trains short-formed because of it being cleaned off? !

If the will is there it can be done...Yes it might need such drastic action - as happened in New York in the 1970s - 1990s, when they had a concerted programme to rid the Subway of the hideous all over graffiti which had become normal (I remember being shocked to see it on a train scene in a 'hollywood' movie and discovering it was the norm at the time of filming.)

A google search for 'NYCTA graffiti ' or similar will reveal the various web pages describing the clean up of NY subway, eg:

http://www.mta.info/news-subway-gra...t/2014/05/12/twenty-five-years-ago-today-nyct

.....SBB zero. In my observations anyway.
.

On passenger maybe, but freight is very badly affected. My main interest is photographing European freight trains and I have got very depressed the last 10 years or so - so many film sequences are ruined by the horrible graffiti on freight wagons - especially vans that sit around in private sidings. The affliction is less apparent on container / swap bodies and tankers as these types of wagon are often stabled in more securely fenced terminals.

And I got even more depressed this year when I saw an Re4/4II loco that had been tagged

.

 

[AlterEgo]

As others have said, graffiti in Italy is pernicious. However the Italians did give us the word, so it's to be expected.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

One might perhaps adopt a "glass-half-full" approach, and admire the artistic aspects of railway-applied graffiti: I've seen such in the Netherlands which -- if the trespassing-and-defacing aspect were set aside -- could have been thought rather fine stuff.

There comes to mind the business a few years ago, of the guy from some Western country who visited Singapore, and did a graffiti-type number on trains in sidings between duties, of the local Metro system. He was apprehended and brought to trial, with predictable results. One had to feel: how things are run in Singapore, is pretty much common knowledge. Of all the places in the world to choose for such a stunt, Singapore must be just about the least wise (well, I suppose a train-graffitist in Pyongyang, might fare yet worse)... Unless this gentleman was perhaps some kind of freedom-of-expression zealot, doing what he did as a principles-based gesture, and accepting his consequent martyrdom?

I do remember reading about the guy in Singapore on this website. There may have been a couple of them. I don't know if the sentence was carried out, but if it was, it will be something they will remember for a long time.

I do recall reading in a newspaper a few years ago of a policeman some where in the UK spotting a bloke putting graffiti on a wall and he was in a position to go to the offender with a bucket and scrubbing brush and make him clean it off.

Am I correct in thinking that on some LUL Trains, that there are painted with type of paint that is graffiti resistant?

 

[axlecounter]

Imho the costs of removals are well worth the money. That's kind of the SBB's strategy, and what works better. Security can help but it can't be anywhere and anyway it can't be healty to have security staff anywhere. I'd go for:

- If possible, don't put the train in service, take another, even hide it in a depot. If not,
- get it removed ASAP (hours, not days),
- never ever leave out one to go around for weeks, months or years. Not even the smallest.

This seems to be the best way to get rid of graffiti. I had a legal one made once: when I had to pay for the spray cans I understood why it is effective to immediately remove them...

 

[furnessvale]

Imho the costs of removals are well worth the money. That's kind of the SBB's strategy, and what works better. Security can help but it can't be anywhere and anyway it can't be healty to have security staff anywhere. I'd go for:

- If possible, don't put the train in service, take another, even hide it in a depot. If not,
- get it removed ASAP (hours, not days),
- never ever leave out one to go around for weeks, months or years. Not even the smallest.

This seems to be the best way to get rid of graffiti. I had a legal one made once: when I had to pay for the spray cans I understood why it is effective to immediately remove them...

A lot of graffiti vandals do not buy cans, they shoplift. They even have a term for it, "Racking".

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I would suggest that the most obvious reason for graffiti on trains being relatively rare in this country compared with elsewhere is the fact that our railways are fenced off from the wider environment. Of course graffiti artists tend to be somewhat disinterested in strict conformity with rules but railway fencing provides sufficient deterrence to make other locations/objects easier targets. It also helps to have a policy that graffiti is removed asap. IME that normally means no more than a single journey to the nearest suitable location where removal can take place though exceptionally an attacked train might remain in service for a day or two.

 

[AlexNL]

Belgium too has it's fair share , NS fairly rare ( I think)

In Belgium they rarely seem to externally clean the trains. They've applied some transparent stickers over the key information on each coach (such as vehicle number, braking information, etc.) so that a vehicle can remain identifiable.

On NS, the policy seems to be like this:
- If a vehicle is vandalised overnight, it won't be sent out of a replacement train can be found instead.
- If a vehicle is tagged throughout the day, they'll keep it running until it reaches its home base at the end of the day, and clean it overnight.
- If the graffiti is offensive, the train is removed from service straight away and sent to the nearest depot for cleaning.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

In Sydney it varies by line... On T4 it runs around caked in Graffiti all day probably all week tbh on T2 it run around until they can drag it out of service on T1 It will run until they can get it somewhere to swap it and moan about feet on seats more

Just personal notes but the Tangara fleet is heavily vandalised on the outside but are pretty clean internally.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The policy in Germany seems to be that offensive or obscene graffiti is removed as soon as possible, but otherwise the "urban decoration" is left until the vehicle is due for repainting.

Generally the quality (if that's the right word!) of the graffiti seen in Europe is higher than tends to be done here. I remember seeing lines and lines of derelict wagons in the Dortmund area where the colourful banners of street-art turned these wrecks into quite vibrant features of the urban landscape.

 

[shredder1]

One of the worst countries I`ve seen for graffiti recently has been Slovenia and I`m well travelled

 

[F Great Eastern]

I don't know if it's still the case but when I was there the CAF trains on the Rome Metro were pretty much graffiti free while the older stock (which was mainly restricted to peak time extras) had graffiti literally everywhere.

I was there two weeks ago.

Every single train covered outside that I saw.

 

[glbotu]

Thing is, once you start taking trains out of service and cleaning them straight off, the Graffiti "artist"'s work is never seen, so it's not worthwhile to keep doing it if you know it's going to get cleaned anyway, which reduces the problem.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

Imho the costs of removals are well worth the money. That's kind of the SBB's strategy, and what works better. Security can help but it can't be anywhere and anyway it can't be healty to have security staff anywhere. I'd go for:

- If possible, don't put the train in service, take another, even hide it in a depot. If not,
- get it removed ASAP (hours, not days),
- never ever leave out one to go around for weeks, months or years. Not even the smallest.

This seems to be the best way to get rid of graffiti. I had a legal one made once: when I had to pay for the spray cans I understood why it is effective to immediately remove them...

When I worked for New York City Transit (back in the bad days of 100% graffiti scarred trains), that was the general approach that we took to successfully eliminate graffiti from trains and stations.

1. Don't call it "graffiti" or vandals as "graffiti artists." We used the term "vandals" and encourage media to do same.

2. If a train had graffiti and it couldn't be removed during terminal cleanings (at the end of a line), the train was removed from service immediately. And it would be shunted into a maintenance depot for immediate graffiti removal.

This required a major change to the corporate culture which was to "make service" at all costs.

3. Never let the public see that vandalized train. Deny the vandals the pleasure of the public seeing their destruction.

4. Make sure all graffiti is removed. Don't allow even a shadow or trace to remain.

5. Bolster security. Attack the problem head on using interdepartmental task force.

6. This was applied on a car/trainset by trainset basis. Starting with one trainset, and eventually converting each trainset to "clean car" status until the entire fleet assigned to that subway route was clean.

7. Move onto a new subway route. Repeat, until the entire fleet is clean.

8. Never let up. Like cockroaches, vandals are always attacking the system. If you let up for a moment, it will snowball back to the bad old days.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When I worked for New York City Transit (back in the bad days of 100% graffiti scarred trains), that was the general approach that we took to successfully eliminate graffiti from trains and stations.

1. Don't call it "graffiti" or vandals as "graffiti artists." We used the term "vandals" and encourage media to do same.

2. If a train had graffiti and it couldn't be removed during terminal cleanings (at the end of a line), the train was removed from service immediately. And it would be shunted into a maintenance depot for immediate graffiti removal.

This required a major change to the corporate culture which was to "make service" at all costs.

3. Never let the public see that vandalized train. Deny the vandals the pleasure of the public seeing their destruction.

4. Make sure all graffiti is removed. Don't allow even a shadow or trace to remain.

5. Bolster security. Attack the problem head on using interdepartmental task force.

6. This was applied on a car/trainset by trainset basis. Starting with one trainset, and eventually converting each trainset to "clean car" status until the entire fleet assigned to that subway route was clean.

7. Move onto a new subway route. Repeat, until the entire fleet is clean.

8. Never let up. Like cockroaches, vandals are always attacking the system. If you let up for a moment, it will snowball back to the bad old days.

Absolute classic example of a an uncontrolled problem being dealt with by breaking it all up into little chunks , putting people in charge of it , and "voila" problems eventually go away after lots of hard work and money ! Sometime in the 80's I got an official tour around the yard(s) at Coney Island and there was a "dirty car area" designated - to get the message across that the new and cleaned cars did not mix with the uncleaned or vandalized ones (who were either to be refurbished or scrapped) - there were firm messages on making sure every service train got washed every day.

Mr Gunn's triumph over adversity.

 

[duesselmartin]

Some German operators show it can be done. Never seen a vandalised S28 Regiobahn in the Düsseldorf area.

 

[fowler9]

Italy is awful for it. I remember going over the causeway in to Venice on a coach and a train passed, I thought it had escaped from a 1970's film featuring the New York Subway.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Italy is awful for it. I remember going over the causeway in to Venice on a coach and a train passed, I thought it had escaped from a 1970's film featuring the New York Subway.

Seemed an awful lot better this summer when I was there , ...looks like an effort has been made (from admittedly a vandal's playground some years back)

 

[trainmania100]

Back when I went to spain there was some heavy graffiti on a lot of the trains

Please find attached one of my photographs

 

[fowler9]

Seemed an awful lot better this summer when I was there , ...looks like an effort has been made (from admittedly a vandal's playground some years back)

Yeah, fair play, Venice was some 16 or 17 years ago. I went to Rome some 10 years ago and it wasn't great but better. Was in Milan and Torino about 8 years ago and it wasn't that bad. Things will probably have changed of course.

 

[dutchflyer]

My EMU in Ljubljana had the oblong with the train data cleaned so they could read it, but they left the rest of the coach!

This is obligatory-as any railwayworker would know.
Poland also used to score quite high but at least on the trains seems now to have come to grip with it. But its Stations then......