Graffiti on trains

[Samuel88]

After reading this article on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...ti-thugs-vandalise-17m-govia-thameslink-train

A 12-carriage Govia Thameslink train has been put out of action by vandals who have covered it with graffiti.

The train was vandalised as it sat at West Worthing station, West Sussex.

Commuter Helen Patterson, who filmed the damage as the train sat at Bedford station on Thursday evening, said it had been "trashed" by "thugs".

I've noticed that more and more trains are getting vandalised. In fact it's getting to be like the bad old days of the 90's, this 'artwork' would surely take at least a few hours to create so why is there no security at sidings and depots?

 

[r37]

I've seen quite a few trains on the SWR network with graffiti on them running round recently.

 

[broadgage]

In my view, these vandals get off much too lightly when caught.
They should be required to pay the full costs of rectifying the damage, and a fine. If they claim lack of money, as they probably will, then the court should estimate the costs of the paint used before accepting any such claim.
If they still wont pay, then jail them.

On crime in general, I believe that criminals should have far fewer rights, and that those attempting to detain them should have greater rights.
If some law abiding person catches a burglar, or a graffiti vandal, or a thief, then I believe that they should be allowed use significant force, even at the risk of hurting the offender.

 

[al78]

In my view, these vandals get off much too lightly when caught.
They should be required to pay the full costs of rectifying the damage, and a fine. If they claim lack of money, as they probably will, then the court should estimate the costs of the paint used before accepting any such claim.
If they still wont pay, then jail them.

On crime in general, I believe that criminals should have far fewer rights, and that those attempting to detain them should have greater rights.
If some law abiding person catches a burglar, or a graffiti vandal, or a thief, then I believe that they should be allowed use significant force, even at the risk of hurting the offender.

It should be reasonable force, you can't go around harming people that pose no direct threat to life. If you challenge someone, and they turn on you, then you can use reasonable force to defend yourself even if reasonable force involves hospitalising the perpetrator.

You should also consider the distinct possibility that the burglar/vandal/thief might actually be a lot more handy with their fists than you, no matter how well-aaaaard you think you are, so using physical force against them might put you in hospital, or worse, a coffin, if they are armed.

 

[2HAP]

It's a pity they can't tread on the third rail whilst applying their "artwork".

 

[BRblue]

It's a pity they can't tread on the third rail whilst applying their "artwork".

We'd probably get the blame if they got fried for not granting them a line blockage and isolation!

 

[philthetube]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...ti-thugs-vandalise-17m-govia-thameslink-train

I've noticed that more and more trains are getting vandalised. In fact it's getting to be like the bad old days of the 90's, this 'artwork' would surely take at least a few hours to create so why is there no security at sidings and depots?

Takes about 5 mins, have seen it done in sidings in the time it takes a driver to change ends.

 

[James James]

In my view, these vandals get off much too lightly when caught.
They should be required to pay the full costs of rectifying the damage, and a fine. If they claim lack of money, as they probably will, then the court should estimate the costs of the paint used before accepting any such claim.
If they still wont pay, then jail them.

On crime in general, I believe that criminals should have far fewer rights, and that those attempting to detain them should have greater rights.
If some law abiding person catches a burglar, or a graffiti vandal, or a thief, then I believe that they should be allowed use significant force, even at the risk of hurting the offender.

Wait what, Vandals in the UK don't get charged for damages?

 

[krus_aragon]

After reading this article on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...ti-thugs-vandalise-17m-govia-thameslink-train

I've noticed that more and more trains are getting vandalised.

Looking at the picture in the article, I can recognise the Little Miss character easily enough, but the silver portion, which I presume to be text, is undecipherable to me.

 

[krus_aragon]

Takes about 5 mins, have seen it done in sidings in the time it takes a driver to change ends.

Having clicked through and watched the video,, it's definitely more than a five minute job. At least eight carriage sides have been painted, most of them have a full "base coat" applied and then lettering or pictures on top.

 

[InOban]

This wasn't a quick tagging by the odd person at a loose end. This was a preplanned activity by an organised group. Quite an impressive job, it grieves me to say. I didn't know that West Worthing's youth were up to that level.

 

[trainophile]

It always surprises me that Banksy is such a hero, given a lot of casual graffiti shows quite some artistic talent, and is often evident in extremely dangerous places like the outside of bridges.

You have to feel that some of these young offenders have missed what could have been a rewarding lifelong vocation.

 

[sarahj]

Done over two nights, check out the 700 thread in traction for further info

 

[broadgage]

It should be reasonable force, you can't go around harming people that pose no direct threat to life. If you challenge someone, and they turn on you, then you can use reasonable force to defend yourself even if reasonable force involves hospitalising the perpetrator.

You should also consider the distinct possibility that the burglar/vandal/thief might actually be a lot more handy with their fists than you, no matter how well-aaaaard you think you are, so using physical force against them might put you in hospital, or worse, a coffin, if they are armed.

I would not encourage anyone to tackle criminals, there can indeed be significant risks.
I do however feel that if anyone DOES decide to tackle the criminals, that the law should be very firmly on their side.

In the particular case of criminal damage to rolling stock, I believe that the railway should be allowed to employ security guards, and that these guards should be allowed to carry weapons. Not firearms, but large sticks, pepper spray, and handcuffs.
Any enquiry into any injury to the criminal should start from the assumption that it was the criminals fault for spray painting, stealing cable, or committing other crime.

 

[Mag_seven]

Sick doesn't begin to describe these lowlife.

 

[broadgage]

Sick doesn't begin to describe these lowlife.

Well they are not quite as bad as those who murder defenceless elderly people, or children. But railway vandals should certainly be treated a lot more harshly than is the norm at present. I suggest a jail term of from one week for the less serious cases, up to one year for the most serious.

 

[The Albion]

To be honest, the graffiti looks a lot better than the so called livery. Don't really know why people are offended by it.

 

[86206]

Done over two nights, check out the 700 thread in traction for further info

So the 700 was vandalised one night, and then stone me the perpetrators went back and painted it again? Thats taking the biscuit to say the least! Was it not noticed on the first attack that the unit had been vandalised, and maybe some security should be put in place?

 

[furnessvale]

To be honest, the graffiti looks a lot better than the so called livery. Don't really know why people are offended by it.

It would probably improve the look of your car and house. Shall I send them round to work out what colours they need for the job?

 

[yorkie]

I don't think these sorts of undesirable individuals should be given the publicity and attention they crave.

I would also like to see punishments that act as a proper deterrent, but sadly I know there is no prospect of that happening with our laws, and legal system, which are woefully inadequate for dealing with anti social gangs.

 

[D365]

Worthing - that’s all that needs to be said.

 

[Bantamzen]

How in heck did they have enough time to do all that? Surely there was some form of security or at least monitored CCTV to pick that up and alert the authorities? And Yorkie is right, highlighting this on the news just gives them more publicity and encourages them to do more.

 

[Jonfun]

In the particular case of criminal damage to rolling stock, I believe that the railway should be allowed to employ security guards, and that these guards should be allowed to carry weapons. Not firearms, but large sticks, pepper spray, and handcuffs.
Any enquiry into any injury to the criminal should start from the assumption that it was the criminals fault for spray painting, stealing cable, or committing other crime.

There's nothing stopping railway security staff carrying handcuffs as it is, they require some, but minimal training to use, are cheap, and when used in appropriate circumstances are generally considered a relatively low "use of force" - but it doesn't really achieve much because what do you do then? You've got you ne'erdowell in cuffs, they'll then either try and escape and injure themselves or use them as a weapon against you, the police will most likely be miles away and unable to respond immediately, so even if the detained person is compliant there's no guarantee of a police response. So you let them out, and then they either go back to attacking you, or escape. And invariably there'll be one person who thinks it's appropriate to "arrest" someone for the heinous crime of not using the ticket machine before they got on the train.

Batons and pepper spray are as much of a risk to the user as the person they're trying to catch and again are only really suitable to use in self defence.

A more visible staff presence - in suitable numbers - is the best way of deterring petty crime. But that won't happen on the railways as it stands due to the prevailing viewpoint that we must cut costs wherever possible.

 

[jimm]

I don't think these sorts of undesirable individuals should be given the publicity and attention they crave.

I would also like to see punishments that act as a proper deterrent, but sadly I know there is no prospect of that happening with our laws, and legal system, which are woefully inadequate for dealing with anti social gangs.

It's not hard to find stories online about people involved in this sort of activity being jailed.

And unless the court cases involving them are reported in the media - putting their names in lights one way or the other - then it's hard to achieve any sort of deterrent effect, whatever the sentence.

 

[InOban]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/graffiti-on-trains.165558/

There's already a thread on this.

 

[Bromley boy]

It would probably improve the look of your car and house. Shall I send them round to work out what colours they need for the job?

This is exactly the point.

The artistic merit of the graffiti is irrelevant. It’s vandalism of property belonging to someone else, which causes delays and inconvenience, (as if TL doesn’t have enough of those already) and costs a great deal of fare payers’ money to rectify.

 

[gazr]

A photo this was posted a while back (over a week ago) and I happened to witness this on a passing Southern train... It's mind boggling (as the poster above notes) how much time this must have taken. Having just reinstated the sidings, are there plans to keep them after this event? I'm guessing it comes down to the cost of fencing/security?

 

[cactustwirly]

In my view, these vandals get off much too lightly when caught.
They should be required to pay the full costs of rectifying the damage, and a fine. If they claim lack of money, as they probably will, then the court should estimate the costs of the paint used before accepting any such claim.
If they still wont pay, then jail them.

I think this already happens, as it's effectively criminal damage.
The problem is actually catching them, and having enough evidence to prove it was someone.

 

[High Dyke]

Whilst I can't condone mindless vandalism, at least the colour scheme looks better than drab silver/grey livery. Perhaps some of the offenders should be employed by train builders/TOC's to provide colourful trains?

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm afraid the answer is more complex than "they're louts and they need dealing with". Social and economic conditions usually play a part and it's no coincidence that this sort of criminal damage goes through the roof when there are police cut backs, youth projects get cut and we have a government that they don't identify with. If I had nothing to lose, no prospects of betterment and thought the government were just shovelling wealth into their friends' pockets (they are), I'd probably not give a s*** and want to stick it to the man too.

I'm not saying criminal damage is okay, but the causes go beyond the Daily Mail-style reaction of "hanging's too good for them". Though obviously if the owners of our newspapers paid tax it might pay for a few more bobbies on the beat, but that debate is for another day.