Grand Central Adelante 180104 missing coach A?

[occone]

I had the pleasure of traveling on 180104 today with Grand Central, and despite being in coach B I found I was in the first coach and there was no coach A.

Inside the stickers also said coach B so I don't imagine it to be something unique to my service.

Here is the RTT link: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C47410/2023-04-14#allox_id=0

Any ideas what happened to coach A? I have done a cursory search but not found anything yet so apologies if it's an obvious one.

 

[joncombe]

Rust? There have been a lot of comments on other threads that the 180s are suffering terribly with corrosion.

 

[supervc-10]

Is coach A not a driving car on an Adelante?

 

[WAB]

No such thing as a coach A on GC

 

[hexagon789]

I had the pleasure of traveling on 180104 today with Grand Central, and despite being in coach B I found I was in the first coach and there was no coach A.

Inside the stickers also said coach B so I don't imagine it to be something unique to my service.

Here is the RTT link: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C47410/2023-04-14#allox_id=0

Any ideas what happened to coach A? I have done a cursory search but not found anything yet so apologies if it's an obvious one.

Grand Central's trains are lettered B to F for a 5-car, and additionally G-K in the second unit if a pair is operated.

Coach A isn't missing because it wasn't there to begin with!

 

[pdq]

Coach A isn't missing because it wasn't there to begin with!

Is there an historical reason why coach A would never have existed? I would have thought that for any particular class of train the lettering would start at A.

 

[hexagon789]

Is there an historical reason why coach A would never have existed? I would have thought that for any particular class of train the lettering would start at A.

FGW used A-E for their Adelantes, so it's not a legacy thing.

For what it's worth, GC's HSTs were also B-F, albeit First Class was F on the HSTs vs E on the 180s.

The logic escapes me I'm afraid.

Unless it dates to when GC ran 2+6 HSTs with an extra declassified Trailer First at the Std Class end and that was "A"? Hence as the 180s are fixed units, as you would never add an extra coach - thus B would be the first vehicle.

 

[D6975]

GCs HSTs were actually A-G IIRC (or possibly A-H). A was the front power car and G/H the rear power car. The Adelantes don't have an A so as to reduce confusion when an Adelante worked a HST turn.

ps Aren't LNER's 225 sets the same, coach A being the loco (or possibly the DVT)?

 

[XAM2175]

ps Aren't LNER's 225 sets the same, coach A being the loco (or possibly the DVT)?

Yes, the coach next to the loco is B. The DVT is next to M.

 

[occone]

Thanks for the explanations! Nothing like good old Historical Reasons.

 

[Failed Unit]

GCs HSTs were actually A-G IIRC (or possibly A-H). A was the front power car and G/H the rear power car. The Adelantes don't have an A so as to reduce confusion when an Adelante worked a HST turn.

ps Aren't LNER's 225 sets the same, coach A being the loco (or possibly the DVT)?

Back in the past the “A” on LNER was the guard coach on the HST. The smoker was always coach B. On the 225s this was next to the loco. On the 125s the coach with the guard in was non-smoking. I think they renumbered again when smoking was banned and A was the bike store on the HST.

I digress.

 

[driverd]

To give just a little more detail, as I understand it, the reason was so first class was always the same carriage. Originally I believe HSTs were B-F. An adelante was B-F such that first class would be coach F. The buffet was coach E, meaning back in 2011, a 180, from front to rear, was BECFD (DMS/MSB/MS/MF/DMS) - *note: this  could be wrong - it may be that they didnt specify the buffet on 180s and was infact BCDFE - if someone can correct just let me know!*
This paired with a HST that was BCDEF (TS/TS/TS/TRSB/TF). Therefore, when there was a 180 subbed for a HST, first class would always be Coach F, and the buffet coach E, meaning reservations would always be in the correct carriage.

I believe at some point between approx 2012 and HST withdrawl (your guess is as good as mine), the 180 arrangement was slightly simplified.

Edit: Never was a coach A! See edit above - I think (though could be wrong), this all stems from a quirk of the seat reservation system.