Grand Central Fleet Replacement - Speculation

[Driver068]

Should they have been ordered as 6 car units. How packed are Grand Central?

I am lead to believe (source within GC) that Hitachi won't do 6 car sets.

The other issue is capacity at King's Cross. Having a 6 car would take a platform out of use and given you sometimes have 3 sets in Kgx at one time, some going on top of each other...then writes 3 platforms off.

Again, it's what I'm led to belive so may NOT be accurate.

 

[357]

Should they have been ordered as 6 car units. How packed are Grand Central?

Platform lengths become an issue above five cars. 180s and 221s already overhang many platforms, with the latter requiring doors locked out of use

 

[ainsworth74]

They do have an option for additional units if they gain the required access rights.

Ah very sensible.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seeing as GC have now made an order I'm not sure we need to speculate very much anymore so see the thread linked in the post above for discussion of these new units

 

[Iskra]

Ah very sensible.

It’s also a good incentive for them to get those access rights, as it helps keep the Hitachi factory going…

Also good that they are ‘buying local,’ so may get a little bit of goodwill in the North East.

Overall, an excellent bit of work.

 

[hexagon789]

Should they have been ordered as 6 car units. How packed are Grand Central?

5s can at least be doubled up. 6 would be too long to do so.

I am lead to believe (source within GC) that Hitachi won't do 6 car sets

In the various threads about the other 80x variants, I'm sure it was mentioned that even numbers of cars isn't possible with the design - you can have 5, 7 or 9 cars but not 6 or 8 for instance.

 

[stadler]

The order of 9 units seems far too little. They are going to need excellent reliability. The current GC unit requirement is 7 units which leaves two spare. GC do have ridiculously long turnaround times. Especially at London Kings Cross where some trains get around 60 to 120 minutes of just sitting there. But also at Bradford Forster Square and Sunderland too where the turnaround times are very generous. So i think GC could probably reduce their requirement from 7 to 5 by completely rewriting the timetable and cutting the turnaround times. That might be a solution. But then we have to remember the new Cleethorpes service. It is not clear how frequent the Cleethorpes service will be but that will require more units.

 

[Duncan-231192]

I don’t think IETs can be ordered as even numbers of carriages.

IET'S can be ordered in any number of carriages between 4 and 12.

I never thought Arriva would go through with ordering new trains for Grand Central, as it would open the flood gates to pressure to replace the XC fleet. All of the Voyagers could do with being replaced with 9 Class 80X's.

 

[778]

Could they not have been bimode OHLE and batteries? The non electrified sections of grand centrals routes should be within the capabilities of battery power and no diesel engines should be needed.

 

[800001]

Could they not have been bimode OHLE and batteries? The non electrified sections of grand centrals routes should be within the capabilities of battery power and no diesel engines should be needed.

The battery that Hitachi trialled would not be able to do Northallerton to Sunderland and back on a single charge.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Apologies for a comment that may well have been asked many times before (and also if it seems silly!) but surely lugging around a battery, diesel gen and OHLE equipment is far less efficient than switching diesel loco from electric, time constraints aside of course.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Apologies for a comment that may well have been asked many times before (and also if it seems silly!) but surely lugging around a battery, diesel gen and OHLE equipment is far less efficient than switching diesel loco from electric, time constraints aside of course.

Swapping locos takes time, and can't be done on the move.
The diesel and battery are two parts that make one whole, even on a loco they'd need to be together, and you'd need OHLE equipment to charge the batteries (or some fast charge solution).
And locos take up potential passenger space, meanwhile on a multiple unit everything sits under the floor or above the roof.
And if you have to swap locos then you'll need another driver, as well as maintenance for three types (two locos and the carriages) instead of just one.

 

[Zomboid]

Apologies for a comment that may well have been asked many times before (and also if it seems silly!) but surely lugging around a battery, diesel gen and OHLE equipment is far less efficient than switching diesel loco from electric, time constraints aside of course.

Depends what you mean by efficient, really. Dragging multiple power sources around does cost energy, but allows flexibility and faster changeover.
With technology the way it is, loco changes are a 20th century solution.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Swapping locos takes time, and can't be done on the move.
The diesel and battery are two parts that make one whole, even on a loco they'd need to be together, and you'd need OHLE equipment to charge the batteries (or some fast charge solution).
And locos take up potential passenger space, meanwhile on a multiple unit everything sits under the floor or above the roof.
And if you have to swap locos then you'll need another driver, as well as maintenance for three types (two locos and the carriages) instead of just one.

Depends what you mean by efficient, really. Dragging multiple power sources around does cost energy, but allows flexibility and faster changeover.
With technology the way it is, loco changes are a 20th century solution.

Thanks both for the informative response! All makes a lot of sense then.