I'm almost certain NSE will not return. As a brand, it's just outdated, and the livery is incredibly 90s - not the look GBR will be going for. InterCity as a brand will probably return, though I imagine it'll be a totally new livery. Modern intercity train designs are more curvy than the straight-line-heavy BREL design language. IC Swallow just wouldn't look right on modern trains.
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Great British Railways: Branding options?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
With GA's very simple branding, they could easily swap the silly* computer generated rabbit for a double arrow and nobody would notice. The Dutch double arrow has already been removed in favour of the rabbit and people probably didn't notice that either.
* Not as utterly stupid as Avanti's tortoise though. "I've got a fast rail service to advertise, what shall I use? I know, the slowest animal."
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While I've generally proposed repurposing the LNER livery (with the word INTERCITY with the LNER flash on the N) the rabbit is to be fair more appropriate than the LNER Muppet (unless of course it's aimed at those designing their fares policy).
That would work quite nicely, could maybe add a white cutout in the double arrow shape.
I think I've suggested in this or a similar thread that each route could use it's own coloured band with the same basic shape (adapted for the shape of each train).
Mike Machin
Member
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2017
- Messages
- 259
As Scotland and wales have their own branding and liveries, the neatest solution would be to roll-out the Greater Anglia livery with the double-arrow across the Network. It features England's colours without being overtly nationalistic and has shown that it's adaptable, working on several types of rolling stock and on inter-city, regional and local services very successfully.
Its a very good livery to be fair
This has been the case for several years at GA. Across the industry, the double arrow has become increasingly common, both due to the influence of individuals and wider industry initiatives.
D3WY
Member
I wouldn't expect there to not be too much "rebranding" taking over the entire network and changing EVERYTHING would cost an absolute fortune not to mention a long time. I'm sure we will see a centralised training center and a GBR management "team" plonked on top of all the TOCs
A total rebrand and total "takeover" would cost so much, in fact I expect the government couldn't afford to take it all on. I mean just taking over the lease of every train in the country.... you imagine the cost.... and they want to keep ticket fares down.... if they do that tickets will go up to fund it no?
A total rebrand and total "takeover" would cost so much, in fact I expect the government couldn't afford to take it all on. I mean just taking over the lease of every train in the country.... you imagine the cost.... and they want to keep ticket fares down.... if they do that tickets will go up to fund it no?
Wivenswold
Established Member
Just thinking about how much easier it would be to totally rebrand a fleet these days with wraps. To think how quickly so many units were hand-painted into NSE colours back in the 80s and 90s. Though I do remember one attempt at the NSE livery at East Ham Depot that failed quality control, possibly a Friday afternoon job, it was so bad that I'm wondering whether it was done as a practical joke. Then there was the unit that went into service before the paint had dried, I dread to think how many claims for expensive suits the company had over that one.
Not problems that modern operators have to contend with and in that context I don't feel rolling out new liveries would be such an onerous job these days.
Not problems that modern operators have to contend with and in that context I don't feel rolling out new liveries would be such an onerous job these days.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
One initial thing that could be done is something like the Regional Railways brand, i.e. put a superscripted double arrow at the end of the existing TOC brand.
D3WY
Member
Could work. But I still don't see how they can do a full blown take over, inheriting every TOC and it's bill, debts, wages etc. I think they will take the TOCs into GBF scope, centralise training and put a big management team on the top of the hierarchy and be done with it. I think at ground employee level we will hardly notice a change.
Greater Anglia also has great punctuality and cancellation rates, so it's a good contender for creating an "improved" look.
Taking over the TOCs would also bring in whatever money they were getting with their contract to operate the service. It may even be ideal to get rid of the ROSCOs over time as it would be cheaper (long-term) for the
government to own the rolling stock. If management is merged then half of it could be cut out to save costs as I'm sure there is a lot of unnecessary overlap in areas with multiple TOCs.
I think operation-wise it'll be nearly identical, but I am curious to how staff leisure travel will work afterwards. There's a lot of weird acceptance between seemingly unrelated companies (Merseyrail accept GA staff because they're both owned by Transport UK Group), though every member of gateline staff that I've met has just allowed anybody with staff travel cards through any barriers (Northern staff through GA barriers, for example).
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
It's got roller skates, that's like the whole point! Typically slow thing going fast.
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 7,554
Aesop would be amused that one rail company uses a tortoise, while another uses a hare...
I would expect a unified brand to appear in time. Most TOCs manage it during their tenure, so for anything that has a reasonable service like left they'll do something.
As this is a manifesto commitment from the government, it'll need to be seen to be delivered, not just technically done.
Wivenswold
Established Member
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the "in-house" TOCs. I suspect we'll start to see BR logos on those trains soon after the GBR South West launch.
Leyland Bus
Member
Have I missed something? When was this announced? (My bolding)
Sun Chariot
Established Member
I suspect Wivenswold means last December's government announcement, linked here:
First train services to return to public ownership revealed
Services across England will return to public control, transforming our railways into a more reliable, affordable and accessible system.
Leyland Bus
Member
Ahh, possibly although it's likely things have moved along since then, the news paper article further up the thread indicated this month to start seeing any branding changes but with anything Govt related, I'm not holding my breath!!I suspect Wivenswold means last December's government announcement, linked here:
First train services to return to public ownership revealed
Services across England will return to public control, transforming our railways into a more reliable, affordable and accessible system.www.gov.uk
Sun Chariot
Established Member
If the transition to BR Monastral Blue was anything to go by:Ahh, possibly although it's likely things have moved along since then, the news paper article further up the thread indicated this month to start seeing any branding changes but with anything Govt related, I'm not holding my breath!!
1964: double arrow makes its debut on XP64.
1967: repaints into monastral blue gather pace.
1980: 20141 finally repainted from BR green into blue!
