Great British Railways: opportunities for fares reform?

[JonathanH]

One overdue change would be dealing with the unfairness of the mixed mode National Rail and London Underground fare when travelling within Zone 1. This currently applies to some TOCs but not others, so the policy should be consistent (ideally by removing it for all carriers!). If that has to be done by slightly increasing other London fares to avoid losing revenue that would be fine by me.

I expect this will apply to even more routes as Contactless is extended outwards from London.

 

[Cdd89]

Re your last sentence, l assume that the change benefits you and you are happy for others to pay....

I can see why you’d assume that, but you assume wrong - I almost never pay the mixed mode fare as I live in Central London and can easily work around it. It just strikes me as a particularly unfair aspect of the system.

 

[Wolfie]

I can see why you’d assume that, but you assume wrong - I almost never pay the mixed mode fare as I live in Central London and can easily work around it. It just strikes me as a particularly unfair aspect of the system.

Ok, my apologies. As a Z2 resident l did wonder....

 

[camflyer]

It'll be good to have a unified e-ticket App, as it's a bit ridiculous at the moment that each franchise has its own App

That will be one of the big benefits. At present the individual e-ticket apps which I have used have worked very well but can't cope with a journey which uses more than one operator

The downside is that it removes the ability for individual operators to offer promotions on routes where there is a choice of services.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The downside is that it removes the ability for individual operators to offer promotions on routes where there is a choice of services.

This will be promoted as a benefit - no more confusing tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That will be one of the big benefits. At present the individual e-ticket apps which I have used have worked very well but can't cope with a journey which uses more than one operator

Eh? All TOC websites and apps sell tickets for all TOCs.

The downside is that it removes the ability for individual operators to offer promotions on routes where there is a choice of services.

It doesn't.

 

[camflyer]

Eh? All TOC websites and apps sell tickets for all TOCs.

What I meant was that the e-tickets only seem to work on an operator's own services. For trips including more than one operator I've always had to pickup a paper ticket from a ticket machine or have them posted to me.

It doesn't.

I would hope so. There has to be a balance between simplicity and choice with some regional flexibility

 

[leytongabriel]

I would say it is on long-distance services. On local services it really isn't, because local services tend to carry people with far less time-flexibility on their journeys. Most people plan long-distance journeys in advance even if they don't actually book in advance. But most people, unless the service is very infrequent, just rock up to the station for the next train if making a short-distance journey. And for commuters there will be a train that makes sense - they won't want to get up or get home any earlier/later than strictly necessary.

There also should not be any Advances sold on any train where there is expected to be a standing load, because that negates the point you make.

I think you can get a decent idea by the difference between the price of two Advances and a walk-up return. If it's 50p or £1, it's predatory and just confuses people. If it's a very large discount - maybe at least 20% or a minimum of say £5 - then it probably does have value of moving people onto different trains or market segmentation.

Yes, though what might seem a shortish commute or business trip for some might be a leisure trip to be booked ahead for others; London Brighton, Oxford or Cambridge spring to mind as examples or Nottingham - Lincoln. Have had advance tickets on very full trains to the West Country which didn't make sense.

 

[JonathanH]

Have had advance tickets on very full trains to the West Country which didn't make sense.

The price of advance tickets is nudging up towards the price of walk on fares. It no longer makes sense to say that advance tickets shouldn't be offered on busy trains if there is no tangible saving.

 

[squizzler]

Readers of thread might be interested in the government's research on public opinions of train fares already linked on the main GBR thread here.

It makes interesting reading that of it I have seen so far. One of the benchmarks for transparency and fairness is apparently Netflix and other streaming services (presumably such as Spotify). Dynamic pricing, which I have been keen on for intercity routes, is not liked by the focus groups, and seems not likely to go forward. I feel this is to dismiss one of the main tools to make intercity travel financially profitable, although perhaps the open access operators will be able to sell their services this way?

We are always been told how rail transport lacks the dynamism of airlines, but media streaming services did not exist when Easyjet was getting started. Adopting that now familiar model could be a way of stealing a march over the air industry. This is why in previous threads I have been banging on about Mobility as a Service (Maas), which can transcend rail to provide genuine integrated transport.

One thing is for certain: the railway is too complex for simple solutions - far more complex than a regional airline - and the best outcome might require a combination of various payment models.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I meant was that the e-tickets only seem to work on an operator's own services. For trips including more than one operator I've always had to pickup a paper ticket from a ticket machine or have them posted to me.

This isn't the case in and of itself. Did the connectional journey involve crossing London or a non accepting TOC like Merseyrail or Southeastern?

This is why in previous threads I have been banging on about Mobility as a Service (Maas), which can transcend rail to provide genuine integrated transport.

And I will counter it again by pointing out that other than for local buses where you have the "paying twice" day ticket issue, the main issue with integration is not fares. Fancy apps don't fix a broken approach to timetabling.