Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes

[jon0844]

What date are you looking at? There are a few trains cancelled in the first couple of weeks of the new timetable as part of the transition plan, it is likely they are the cause of the gaps you are seeing. Once the new timetable is fully in operation, there will be 2tph Thameslink from Huntingdon, plus peak extras into Kings Cross.

And pretty much all 12 car services?

 

[greatkingrat]

I was looking at May 24.

Look for a date after June 4th if you want to see the final timetable.

And pretty much all 12 car services?

All Thameslink services to Peterborough will be 12-car, some of the KX services are still 8-car.

 

[muddythefish]

Look for a date after June 4th if you want to see the final timetable.
r.

Thanks. Hunts needs more off peak trains, not fewer !

 

[gingerheid]

Just realised there is no Thameslink service from Cambridge on Sundays! This is... a shame

 

[mmh]

The "preview" service has been a bit of a farce. Ok, there are only two a day, and only have been for a few weeks but having used a Norwood Junction to Peterborough service last week (to Biggleswade) last week it's a bit of a "what was the point of that" feeling to realise it won't exist in a fortnight. There's an awful lot of "here's what you could have won" about Thameslink 3000 I feel.

 

[AS43]

Just realised there is no Thameslink service from Cambridge on Sundays! This is... a shame

RTT suggests that there is; an hourly service from 0828, albeit only as far as Gatwick (with the last three extended to Three Bridges).

 

[DaveN]

I wouldn't trust RTT (or any other system) for Sunday Thameslink services more than a couple of weeks in advance. In the official timetable, there are 4 tph from Bedford but nearly every Sunday this year there have only been 2.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the Peterborough - Horsham services a few pages ago, which route do they take south of the mighty Thames?

Is it via Sutton and Epsom, Redhill and Gatwick, or both?

 

[JonathanH]

Regarding the Peterborough - Horsham services a few pages ago, which route do they take south of the mighty Thames?

Is it via Sutton and Epsom, Redhill and Gatwick, or both?

Horsham via Redhill and Gatwick effectively taking over the old London Bridge to Horsham stopping train with some of the stops switched to other services to make journey times via Redhill more standard.

 

[gingerheid]

RTT suggests that there is; an hourly service from 0828, albeit only as far as Gatwick (with the last three extended to Three Bridges).

The printed timetables say there isn't... but there are mistakes in them too...

 

[bramling]

Just realised there is no Thameslink service from Cambridge on Sundays! This is... a shame

There is 1tph Gatwick to Cambridge during the main part of the day.

Meanwhile I see things have kicked off massively in Hitchin over the changes. Fury at the new timetable, and criticism of the 700s. The loss of non-stop trains at certain times is a particular bone of contention it seems.

 

[philjo]

Yes, there are several letters in today's Comet newspaper criticising the new timetable, mainly from Hitchin commuters.

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, there are several letters in today's Comet newspaper criticising the new timetable, mainly from Hitchin commuters.

I suspect GTRs response is the consultation said it was what people wanted. Any objections we could ignore as people in Brighton didn’t express an option so your views were diluted so much they were worthless.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not looking forward to making the journey between Stevenage and London in the morning peak. Between 7am and 8am we have:

Fewer trains
Fewer carriages overall
Fewer seats

 

[mongoose]

There is 1tph Gatwick to Cambridge during the main part of the day.

Meanwhile I see things have kicked off massively in Hitchin over the changes. Fury at the new timetable, and criticism of the 700s. The loss of non-stop trains at certain times is a particular bone of contention it seems.

Also borne out by the replies to this Great Northern tweet - https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/994496119710380032

It's interesting that there hasn't been a similar outcry in the Welwyn Hatfield local paper - perhaps passengers there are not losing as much as Hitchin.

 

[bramling]

Also borne out by the replies to this Great Northern tweet - https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/994496119710380032

It's interesting that there hasn't been a similar outcry in the Welwyn Hatfield local paper - perhaps passengers there are not losing as much as Hitchin.

Quite possible many people simply don’t realise yet.

As things stand many peak Welwyn services are 387s (themselves unpopular for different reasons). Also Welwyn doesn’t get the “exciting new destinations” yet so although the journey time to and from London is worse there’s not that much obvious change yet.

Knebworth and Welwyn Noryh get a decent peak service - although much will depend how crowded the Baldock trains get. I predict they will fill heavily at Hitchin for sure, and probably Letchworth too.

 

[Failed Unit]

Also borne out by the replies to this Great Northern tweet - https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/994496119710380032

It's interesting that there hasn't been a similar outcry in the Welwyn Hatfield local paper - perhaps passengers there are not losing as much as Hitchin.

I don’t think the majority realise yet.

The reduction in journey time is negated by the fact that GNs timekeeping is shocking anyway.

I guess if the new timetable increases the chances of getting a seat it may help. If I take the worse train for overcrowding the 0755. Hopefully passengers from Royston, Letchworth etc will find faster services to get them to Finsbury Park.

I suspect when they realise the loss of the direct Peterborough service and the poor connection replacement more noise will happen.

Same with Brookmans Park and Welham green i know people that live in both those places. They don’t realise they are going to half hourly off peak shortly.

If the trains had gone through the core my journey would be better. Now I just need to hope one day the work out how to get more trains through the core. Suspect by 2025 we will still be going to KX and the Cambridge- Maidstone service is quietly forgotten about.

 

[bramling]

I don’t think the majority realise yet.

The reduction in journey time is negated by the fact that GNs timekeeping is shocking anyway.

I guess if the new timetable increases the chances of getting a seat it may help. If I take the worse train for overcrowding the 0755. Hopefully passengers from Royston, Letchworth etc will find faster services to get them to Finsbury Park.

I suspect when they realise the loss of the direct Peterborough service and the poor connection replacement more noise will happen.

Same with Brookmans Park and Welham green i know people that live in both those places. They don’t realise they are going to half hourly off peak shortly.

If the trains had gone through the core my journey would be better. Now I just need to hope one day the work out how to get more trains through the core. Suspect by 2025 we will still be going to KX and the Cambridge- Maidstone service is quietly forgotten about.

The performance of the Cambridge stopping service will be poor, it simply gets tangled up with anything and everything else. With long turnarounds at King’s Cross it’s highly likely they will just be left to run late. If and when they ever run through the core things will be much worse.

But don’t worry, Thameslink have a magic plan to make it all work. The reporting numbers will start with a 9 for Thameslink services, so all will be just fine.

 

[Failed Unit]

We will see next week. I expect skip stopping to be rife. No room for any delay on the slow which the kings cross - Cambridge is stuck on. I can see lot of Welwyn north trains getting skipped. Why network rail ever agreed to 4tph blocking the biggest bottle neck on the southern ECML is beyond belief.

 

[bramling]

We will see next week. I expect skip stopping to be rife. No room for any delay on the slow which the kings cross - Cambridge is stuck on. I can see lot of Welwyn north trains getting skipped. Why network rail ever agreed to 4tph blocking the biggest bottle neck on the southern ECML is beyond belief.

Better hope those 313s hold up - they’re already being used very intensively, and this continues from May - if anything more so. Compared to a decade or two ago, they’re working longer into the evening, more peak services, and no off-peak shortening. Not bad for 40-year-old units. Having said that the 700s don’t seem to be doing wonderfully either, they’re certainly not in their prime reliability wise yet.

 

[Minstral25]

Horsham via Redhill and Gatwick effectively taking over the old London Bridge to Horsham stopping train with some of the stops switched to other services to make journey times via Redhill more standard.

And by doing so has ruined many local journeys because previously linked stations are no longer linked. An absolute Disaster for local passengers - lack of thought about where people actually travel and completely ignored in all consultations

 

[MML]

There is a new announcement on trains and stations advising about Railplan 2020 timetable changes.
1. Why is it referring to 2020 ? I thought the changes are effective next week, not in 2 years time.
2. Why are the announcements made in an American accent ? Sounds more appropriate for the New York metro.

 

[AM9]

... Why is it referring to 2020 ? I thought the changes are effective next week, not in 2 years time. ...

It's a typo on 'Thameslink 2000', pretending that the project isn't for 18 years late.

 

[hwl]

There is a new announcement on trains and stations advising about Railplan 2020 timetable changes.
1. Why is it referring to 2020 ? I thought the changes are effective next week, not in 2 years time.
2. Why are the announcements made in an American accent ? Sounds more appropriate for the New York metro.

The last of the changes only take place in December 2019 hence the 2020 pun on TL2000.
There are 4 sets of changes on the May and December timetable changes in 2018 and 2019 with the biggest this May.

 

[DaveN]

..and the Harpenden FAQ page also mentions the December 2020 change too (which is assuming Dec 2020 for the electrified Corby services stopping at Luton and Bedford enabling the new fast Thameslink services from next week that skip Harpenden to call at Harpenden)

 

[jon0844]

Look quite nice (nicer on a LCD display than a poster IMO, where it looks quite amateurish) but surely the left screen could have just shown the 'i' for information instead of doubling up?

Still waiting to see if we ever get any video/animations playing on the screens.

 

[Fred26]

I've heard lots of people questioning why the announcement is being made by an American, but I really don't see what the problem is. I like the different accent and don't find it anywhere near as patronising as some of the other announcements. Also, I suspect the gentleman who recorded the announcement is an employee of GTR. I could be wrong, but all the other announcements about timetable changes are done in house, so it'd be odd if GTR looked elsewhere for this one.
As I say, I like it it. I think it makes a nice change.

 

[jon0844]

I've heard lots of people questioning why the announcement is being made by an American, but I really don't see what the problem is. I like the different accent and don't find it anywhere near as patronising as some of the other announcements. Also, I suspect the gentleman who recorded the announcement is an employee of GTR. I could be wrong, but all the other announcements about timetable changes are done in house, so it'd be odd if GTR looked elsewhere for this one.
As I say, I like it it. I think it makes a nice change.

I wondered if it was someone famous.

Should have got someone to do it in a Donald Trump voice. The bigliest upgrade in decades. The best upgrade...

(and if it all goes wrong, we can blame Trump - win win).

 

[Bishopstone]

The American announcer is actually Canadian.

 

[Stew998]

We keep hearing about how vital the small amount of extra (standing) capacity the 700 interior provides, however this of course overlooks one of the big fails of the Thameslink Programme, namely the failure to provide for any lengthening on both the Welwyn and Hertford routes.

Likewise most of the Baldock/Royston 365 services happen to run into the main station at Kings Cross, yet due to short platforms at Baldock, Knebworth and Welwyn North they remain limited to 8 cars. SDO wouldn’t immediately help here due to the reversing berth at Baldock.

There is a lot more standing room available in the 700s although sadly this is achieved by

a) Reducing the number of seats, and
b) By reducing the allowance of standing room per person from 0.45 sqm to 0.25 sqm of floor space!

The following piece makes interesting reading and it will be interesting to see how 21st May pans out....

https://www.railfuture.org.uk/article1616-Standing-room-only

This extract makes the point:

"A 12 car class 700 has a claimed capacity of 1754 passengers. However it only has 666 seats, compared to 798 seats on the 12-car class 377 trains currently used between Brighton and Bedford. The reason that the claimed capacity is so high, beside the reduction in the number of seats, is that the standing allowance has been changed; whereas 0.45 sq. metres of floor space is allowed per person standing on existing trains, on the new Thameslink class 700 trains the standing allowance is being reduced to 0.25 sq. metres of floor space per person. To put that in perspective, on a class 700 twenty-seven people will be crammed into the same area as the back of a Mercedes Sprinter LWB van, compared to fifteen people on an existing train."