Great Northern Fleet - 379s

[dk1]

I do think the GWR 387s have the nicest interior though.

Have you been on a 379?

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Akiem wisely getting out of UK passenger trains, which don’t really fit with the rest of their business.

As for the buyer, I’d guess either a company that already has a large fleet of Electrostars, or one that regularly buys up fleets.

The company that has a load of electrostars is Porterbrook.

 

[jon0844]

Have you been on a 379?

Yes, many times. They're fine too. I was referring more to the colours and the table covers, and didn't the 379s only have half tables or something?

The first class areas are far better on 379s. I wonder also if the 379s will get the new LCD displays, and if they got LED lighting before they went off lease?

 

[dk1]

Yes, many times. They're fine too. I was referring more to the colours and the table covers, and didn't the 379s only have half tables or something?

The first class areas are far better on 379s. I wonder also if the 379s will get the new LCD displays, and if they got LED lighting before they went off lease?

From what I recall they were full tables. Seat covers were grey so neutral but only cosmetic so easily changed with a light refurb.

Would have thought they were LED from new and definitely had nothing done before going into store.

 

[Zeremony]

Glad that it is looking like the 379s are finally getting a new home.
The class 379s are basically AC only variants of class 387s but with different seating although I'm not sure if they can be coupled together.
Just hoping that they keep the excellent first class that was intended for the Stansted Express (2+1!).
All it would need is probably a cosmetic refresh with new seat covers.

 

[bramling]

Glad that it is looking like the 379s are finally getting a new home.
The class 379s are basically AC only variants of class 387s but with different seating although I'm not sure if they can be coupled together.
Just hoping that they keep the excellent first class that was intended for the Stansted Express (2+1!).
All it would need is probably a cosmetic refresh with new seat covers.

I’d imagine there would likely be some level of work carried out to the 379s to standardise them with the 387 fleet, especially if (as seems likely) some 387s would need to be retained on GN.

I guess it would be theoretically possible, now, to have a GN fleet made up of the 379s with the four nominally surplus 700/0s making up the shortfall. On paper that would allow a reduction of 8x 4-car units. The way things are going on GN seems to be the opposite though - less 700/0 use rather than more.

 

[Fincra5]

Glad that it is looking like the 379s are finally getting a new home.
The class 379s are basically AC only variants of class 387s but with different seating although I'm not sure if they can be coupled together.
Just hoping that they keep the excellent first class that was intended for the Stansted Express (2+1!).
All it would need is probably a cosmetic refresh with new seat covers.

Technically all electostars can be coupled together... I doubt think a 379 can work with a 387 in passenger service however, much like a 377 and 387 can't.

I'd imagine if they came to the GN they'd receive the 'aurora' modification work progressing on the GTR fleet.

 

[Jturner98]

As far as I know they run off different software. 387 is Electrostar software where as a 379 is Linux (an early derivative of the aventra software).

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Great if GN gets the 379s, I think the 2+1 first class section may get ripped out with more standard seating fitted in and a new smaller 2+2 first class section as GN is a predominantly commuter TOC.

I would have preferred to see the 379s stay with GA to be returned exclusively for Stansted Express with all 745s moved to intercity services including Cambridge & Ipswich thus freeing up 720s for elsewhere in the GA network.

At least some glimmer of hope for the 379s.

 

[D365]

I would have preferred to see the 379s stay with GA to be returned exclusively for Stansted Express with all 745s moved to intercity services including Cambridge & Ipswich thus freeing up 720s for elsewhere in the GA network.

Does Greater Anglia need 120 additional carriages?

 

[Snow1964]

At least some glimmer of hope for the 379s.

My gut feel is politics with election looming is about to change things.

Doesn't look good if candidates from other parties start pointing out overcrowded trains, or old trains, and keeping newish ones in store.

Clearly the 379s owner, which started out as Lloyds TSB, but was sold to Macquarie, who it turn offloaded to Aikem, is a relatively small player in UK rolling stock market.

As I see it if DfT tries to keep them stored, then it raises risk factor of rolling stock lease market, so ultimately others will put prices up to build a reserve in case their stock gets stored. Short term might save some leasing cost, but if every future deal makes you pay for chance of an off lease storage in form of a premium, could pay multiple times for your short term saving. Trying to pull a fast one on LeaseCos owned by big banks is going to come back and bite you, because if they lose one year, are going to make sure you pay for it for next decade or two.

 

[Milo T.K]

I would have preferred to see the 379s stay with GA to be returned exclusively for Stansted Express with all 745s moved to intercity services including Cambridge & Ipswich thus freeing up 720s for elsewhere in the GA network.

GA can just use the 720s since they have enough to cover most of the lines

 

[aleggatta]

Technically all electostars can be coupled together... I doubt think a 379 can work with a 387 in passenger service however, much like a 377 and 387 can't.

I'd imagine if they came to the GN they'd receive the 'aurora' modification work progressing on the GTR fleet.

As far as I know they run off different software. 387 is Electrostar software where as a 379 is Linux (an early derivative of the aventra software).

Whilst the Mitrac interface cab side might run from different operating systems, the Mitrac system as a whole is one and the same system. The 379s are closer to a 387 than anything else (DOO/CCTV systems are the same, and I believe they also have the required redundant network bus through the train as was required by a change in regulations around 2009(?). Electrostar traction systems are all compatible with eachother, and after aurora mods/PIS upgrades the only potential incompatibility is the Passenger alarm system.

The myth of incompatibility comes from the initial designation of the 387s as 377/8s, before it was realised how many were going to be ordered, and how much more expensive it was going to be to install legacy systems (Faiveley) into a modern train, the Petards system had already been proven on the class 379 and IIRC 375 CCTV upgrades, so the 387 was born. At the end of the day if a software package was designed for all fleets and deployed to all fleets, all fleets would be compatible if they had the same hardware. Can I see compatibility with 387s happening? yeah, but any other electrostars wouldn't be worth it as even after being aurora'd they aren't going to realistically be any more compatible than they are currently (rescue only). Had we kept guards on the train this would probably be a different story!

 

[Kite159]

This is when Great Northern gets the 379s with the 'nicer First Class' only for the DfT to decide to do away with 1st class on Great Northern/Thameslink/Southern routes similar to what they did on South Eastern/London Northwestern.

379s for Great Northern makes so much sense, I suspect in terms of training for the drivers it will be a short course (depends what differences there are with a 379 compared to a 387). Hopefully the time in cold storage at Worksop won't have affected them to make them unreliable.

 

[dk1]

This is when Great Northern gets the 379s with the 'nicer First Class' only for the DfT to decide to do away with 1st class on Great Northern/Thameslink/Southern routes similar to what they did on South Eastern/London Northwestern.

That’s just one of those things.

 

[Hadders]

I think it’s a big subjective there, as I personally think the 387s were a huge upgrade on the 365s, but I can agree the 379s will doubtlessly be very welcome.

I think you're in a minority in thinking that. The 365s (particularly in their original interior condition) were far superior to the 387s. The only plus point the 387s have is aircon.

 

[43096]

I personally think the 387s were a huge upgrade on the 365s

Queen Elizabeth II was of the opinion that 365s were superior! She was not impressed when a 387 appeared for the first time.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This is when Great Northern gets the 379s with the 'nicer First Class' only for the DfT to decide to do away with 1st class on Great Northern/Thameslink/Southern routes similar to what they did on South Eastern/London Northwestern.

Looking on the bright side then, there will be some flipping comfortable standard class seats available for use if so!

 

[bramling]

I think you're in a minority in thinking that. The 365s (particularly in their original interior condition) were far superior to the 387s. The only plus point the 387s have is aircon.

Interesting you should say this, as just this week a friend of mine (who has been in the area since around 2020) was commenting on the train service. I sent him a photo showing the very original class 365 interior, and he was gobsmacked how nice it was.

“Were the trains here *really* that nice?”

Personally I don’t mind the 387s apart from one significant issue, that being the seats. The location of first class is also a slight niggle, though that is more operator choice rather than fundamental. It seems the odd first location is indeed a direct result of these units being a quick follow-on from other builds. I wouldn’t be surprised we end up with the same on the 379s.

 

[Geml246]

Don't forget there were issues with the inter unit connections on the 379s, before being taken out of service and the doors being locked out of service, that would need to be addressed.

 

[Doomotron]

Looking on the bright side then, there will be some flipping comfortable standard class seats available for use if so!

From their appearance they look identical to the 3+2 'ironing board-esque' and deeply uncomfortable seats used in 375/9s and 377s, do they have different padding to those?

 

[cactustwirly]

Do you know enough about the OP to know that he may not know this for the same reason as you?


I think it’s a big subjective there, as I personally think the 387s were a huge upgrade on the 365s, but I can agree the 379s will doubtlessly be very welcome.

In what way are the 387s a huge upgrade?

 

[Energy]

From their appearance they look identical to the 3+2 'ironing board-esque' and deeply uncomfortable seats used in 375/9s and 377s, do they have different padding to those?

They are referring to the 379s' excellent first class. On LNWR rather than the first class being entirely removed it was just declassified permanently.

 

[Fincra5]

This is when Great Northern gets the 379s with the 'nicer First Class' only for the DfT to decide to do away with 1st class on Great Northern/Thameslink/Southern routes similar to what they did on South Eastern/London Northwestern.

379s for Great Northern makes so much sense, I suspect in terms of training for the drivers it will be a short course (depends what differences there are with a 379 compared to a 387). Hopefully the time in cold storage at Worksop won't have affected them to make them unreliable.

They frequently go through warm cycles via a Shore Supply at Worksop. I think some even get dragged to Doncaster to Pan Up.

So, I believe, they're in good working condition... probably just need a deep clean!

 

[bspahh]

In what way are the 387s a huge upgrade?

Compared to 365s, 387s have selective door opening, so you get 8 car trains to Kings Lynn, air conditioning, and toilets that don't reek.

 

[Fincra5]

In what way are the 387s a huge upgrade?

For an operational perspective they're an upgrade, SDO and walkthrough gangways allowing longer trains to call at the shorter stations.

This has the benefit for passenger capacity. Along with plug sockets and aircon for the passengers.

 

[Milo T.K]

From their appearance they look identical to the 3+2 'ironing board-esque' and deeply uncomfortable seats used in 375/9s and 377s, do they have different padding to those?

From when I used to go on them they do have different padding

 

[wickham]

This string confirms that 379s are hauled from Worksop to Doncaster Royal Mail Terminal for "pan up" every now and then:

5Q22 Worksop to Doncaster 11.01.24​

It would be interesting to learn how often this is done.

 

[Doomotron]

In what way are the 387s a huge upgrade?

Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet, the tables are better on 387s compared to the flimsy and tiny seatback tables and small bay tables on the 365. And more importantly for me, armrests, and because of that the seats are further apart too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet, the tables are better on 387s compared to the flimsy and tiny seatback tables and small bay tables on the 365. And more importantly for me, armrests, and because of that the seats are further apart too.

Yes agreed with all three, and also the fact I do actually like to work from a big table.