Great Northern May timetable - London Terminals / Oyster

[thewaistcoat]

I travel from WGC to Blackfriars 3 times a week and currently use carnet tickets to KGX and Oyster St Pancas to Blackfriars. Opposite in the evening.
With the new timetable it looks like WGC->Finbury Park->Blackfriars might be an option in the morning.
I'm assuming they won't introduce carnet tickets covering the whole of my journey, so I'll need to continue splitting between paper ticket and Oyster.
I presume London Terminals tickets will be valid to Finsbury Park or St Pancras (maybe even Farringdon), however I'm not sure how I'd tap in to start my Oyster journey. Tapping in at Finsbury Park would mean a Zone2-1 fare rather than my existing Zone1-1 (so would cost a bit more).
Otherwise I'd assume I'd have to alight at St Pancras, go all the way up the escalators to the gates and come straight back down again (making the more direct connection a bit pointless).
Is it likely to be as silly as it seems?

 

[MikeWh]

Oyster PAYG requires you to touch in and out at each end of the journey covered by that payment method. Do carnet tickets exist for WGC to Finsbury Park? Are they cheaper than to London Terminals? If yes to both then touching in at Finsbury Park may be worthwhile. There are validators in the subway between platforms, and some of the platforms are gated at platform level.

 

[Hadders]

GTR remain silent on the whole ticketing position of services through the core from the GN side. It’s going to become extremely messy, I suspect.

 

[Failed Unit]

It is frustrating. I often do the same thing myself. I hope they will do a welwyn- core carnet.

I will take a better look at St Pancras to see if they have any validators in the platform.

Of course GTR could resolve this by putting Carnets on the key and then use keygo for the extension is a minor detail. The don’t seem interested in helping passengers and reducing fraud using technology. Why would they when they can take passengers to court for genuine mistakes?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

GTR remain silent on the whole ticketing position of services through the core from the GN side. It’s going to become extremely messy, I suspect.

Recalling that, as the TOC is on a management contract the whole fares structure has to be approved by DfT (as well as TfL when we get to Oysters). I would have thought that, logically, STP would become an alternative terminal to KGX (as it already is on many longer distance fares, of course). But, indeed, if one wants to Oyster the last bit it will involve some exercise up and down the escalators first. Not a new experience for many since the Great World of Oyster arrived (cf. Watford Jnc, Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, East Croydon and Bromley S.) which created a new range of fares anomalies, ie. options for split ticket journeys, and exercise opportunities!

 

[thewaistcoat]

I've just had another play with the journey planner at GTR and Finsbury Park isn't a London Terminal (and carnet tickets don't allow break of journey), but St Pancras is.
Carnet tickets currently only seem available to London Terninals southbound on GTR, so WGC->Finsbury Park->St Pancras would be allowed. I guess I could technically pay twice for the FPK->STP leg to save getting off the train at St Pancras (which I'd have to do even if there were validators on the platform - couldn't see any last week).
I think I'll stick to going into KGX and walking across to STP and hope the WGC trains never end up going through the core until this is all resolved.
I notice on Thamelink, St Albans City has carnet tickets (all for the same price) to all the core stations plus Elephant & Castle/London Bridge.

 

[thewaistcoat]

It is frustrating. I often do the same thing myself. I hope they will do a welwyn- core carnet.

I will take a better look at St Pancras to see if they have any validators in the platform.

Of course GTR could resolve this by putting Carnets on the key and then use keygo for the extension is a minor detail. The don’t seem interested in helping passengers and reducing fraud using technology. Why would they when they can take passengers to court for genuine mistakes?

I won't even think of touching 'the key' until they can issue replacements at the ticket offices. This is another story.

 

[swt_passenger]

I notice on Thamelink, St Albans City has carnet tickets (all for the same price) to all the core stations plus Elephant & Castle/London Bridge.

That’s probably because some origins on the MML have tickets to London Thameslink, which includes all the stations you mention, rather than London Terminals. This is a long standing feature meaning southbound ticket validity off the MML towards London is organised completely differently to northbound travel from the “southern”. The latter uses London Terminals, which includes Blackfriars and City Thameslink.

Stands to reason that the route changes being made now on the GN will make for even more inconsistencies, not less. DfT have had years to sort it out, and even announced it would be sorted in the GTR franchise ITT. IIRC previous discussions have almost always concluded it will not be fixed soon...

 

[Hadders]

The whole thing is a mess.

Consider the inter-available section. Tickets to/from London Terminals with validity into Kings Cross are valid on the Underground to Moorgate but entry/exit is not allowed at Farringdon. When trains start running through the core from GN stations then to reach Moorgate it will be straightforward to change at Farringdon. So interchange will become allowed at Farringdon but not entry or exit.

I get the no entry/exit under the current arrangements but it will be farcical from May.

Say I hold an Anytime Day Return ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals. I currently travel from Kings Cross to Moorgate on the Underground. I can't alight at Farringdon.
From May I change from Thameslink to the Underground at Farringdon to get to Moorgate. Am I allowed to break my journey at a station served by Thameslink trains?

Some might say get rid of the inter-availability but it's needed more than ever since Hertford/WGC locals started using Moorgate all day and at weekends. Also given there's a common gate line at Finsbury Park and Moorgate it would be difficult to ban anyway.

 

[NeroWolfe]

In a similar vein....

a) If I travel direct Anytime from Huntingdon to Farringdon this will be a set price.

b) If I travel Anytime to Kings X and then Oyster PAYG from Kings X to Farringdon with a Senior Railcard (arriving KX after 09.30) the tube part will be discounted.

I assume the fare at example a) would not incorporate the reduction as I would be departing Huntingdon before Railcard can be added in.

Like TheWaistcoat with b) I could arrive at St Pancras and leave the train to tap in to activate the Oyster aspect.

I assume I can use an Oyster PAYG on Thameslink and the fares are the same as the tube?

 

[jon0844]

I won't even think of touching 'the key' until they can issue replacements at the ticket offices. This is another story.

When the new TOMTIS system is installed, that should be possible. At last, ticket offices will be able to manage them rather than getting you to do stuff online and then have the card touched on a gateline/standalone reader (either by you or staff).

There are some other issues I've heard about, in that KeyGo has a flaw where you must do a return journey at the same stations to get a return fare, rather than two singles.

For example, going to Moorgate/London Terminals one way and coming back from King's Cross. It appears it cannot work out that you'd normally be able to travel like that with a return ticket.

 

[sefton]

Say I hold an Anytime Day Return ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals. I currently travel from Kings Cross to Moorgate on the Underground. I can't alight at Farringdon.

Isn't that just breaking your journey which is permitted on an Anytime ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Isn't that just breaking your journey which is permitted on an Anytime ticket.

The current inter-availability conditions specifically prohibit break of journey at Farringdon. The key issue is that currently you can only access Farringdon from the GN side by taking a LU service. That changes from May.

This is extremely relevant as it has the effect of making Farringdon a London Terminal.

 

[thewaistcoat]

https://www.railplan2020.com/frequently-asked-questions

>London Terminals tickets
>London Terminals tickets are valid for travel to London King’s Cross, Moorgate and now London St Pancras.
>
>Travelling beyond London St Pancras?
>Customers who wish to travel to any London Thameslink station including London St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle may do so by purchasing a London >Thameslink ticket. Customers with London Thameslink tickets may also break their journey at Kings Cross to provide greater flexibility, however they are not valid on the Moorgate branch.1
>
>Great Northern only routed tickets
>Tickets routed Great Northern only are now also valid on Thameslink services along the same line of route.

I wonder if I can buy a carnet ticket WGC->london thameslink?

 

[thewaistcoat]

https://www.railplan2020.com/frequently-asked-questions

>London Terminals tickets
>London Terminals tickets are valid for travel to London King’s Cross, Moorgate and now London St Pancras.
>
>Travelling beyond London St Pancras?
>Customers who wish to travel to any London Thameslink station including London St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle may do so by purchasing a London >Thameslink ticket. Customers with London Thameslink tickets may also break their journey at Kings Cross to provide greater flexibility, however they are not valid on the Moorgate branch.1
>
>Great Northern only routed tickets
>Tickets routed Great Northern only are now also valid on Thameslink services along the same line of route.

I wonder if I can buy a carnet ticket WGC->london thameslink?

I've just tried to use the Thameslink website to book a ticket end of May and london thameslink seems to equate to london terminals - may have to ask at the ticket office.