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Great Western Electrification Progress

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LNW-GW Joint

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Personally I would have thought that electrifying the extra 14 miles would have been a better long term prospect than buying a new fleet of Bi-Modes. Obviously the powers that be think otherwise. So be it.

There are several lines much higher up the food chain waiting for promised wiring to begin (TP, MML, even TV branches and Basingstoke).
Scope creep has been one of the banes of the entire project.
A bi-mode solution is a very reasonable alternative.
 
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HowardGWR

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I tried to point out that the Bedwyn discussion was OT but wasted that post clearly. This thread is about progress with what has been agreed, not add-ons.
 

spark001uk

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I tried to point out that the Bedwyn discussion was OT but wasted that post clearly. This thread is about progress with what has been agreed, not add-ons.

Looking from the sidelines, and just light-heartedly - to be fair to conversation on this tangent, where does it say that this thread should stick to said specifics? Just asking like!? ;)
 

spark001uk

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Reading:

P1 and p2 wired. (note p1 currently terminated without insulators)
P7, 8, 13, 14, 15 wired.
P9 support wire only.
.
 

3973EXL

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Reading platforms 2 & 7 are wired.

Plat 9 has the catenary wire up.

Still to do, 3 10 11 12.
 

ScotGG

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With many EU cities now banning diesel in the next few years as health affects become clear, and no doubt UK cities following, will these bi-modes be diesel by 2020-2025? Embarrassing for a flagship project to be using such old tech if so.
 

GRALISTAIR

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With many EU cities now banning diesel in the next few years as health affects become clear, and no doubt UK cities following, will these bi-modes be diesel by 2020-2025? Embarrassing for a flagship project to be using such old tech if so.

As long as the politicians "grow a set" there should be no issue. Deltics were supposed to be a stop-gap and so were HSTs buying time for electrification. Take a sensible approach and continue a rolling program of electrification. When fully electrified buy a few more electric only and divert the bimodes to cross country- keep on electrifying so bit by bit you eliminate all the diesel mileage - or what is practical. Birmingham NS can be first by doing Derby- Exeter once Filton triangle and via Bath into BTM is done and of course GWML fully done with Didcot-Oxford etc also. Just needs money and the political will and commonsense - and yes - even some spin.
 

spark001uk

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Reading platforms 2 & 7 are wired.

Plat 9 has the catenary wire up.

Still to do, 3 10 11 12.

Are you sure you weren't stood behind me? You posted less than 60sec after me! ;)

Edit: Noticed a number of the two-span relief line booms on both the eastern and western approaches to Twyford have the drop tubes, reg arms etc for the down relief only.
 
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HowardGWR

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As long as the politicians "grow a set" there should be no issue. Deltics were supposed to be a stop-gap and so were HSTs buying time for electrification. Take a sensible approach and continue a rolling program of electrification. When fully electrified buy a few more electric only and divert the bimodes to cross country- keep on electrifying so bit by bit you eliminate all the diesel mileage - or what is practical. Birmingham NS can be first by doing Derby- Exeter once Filton triangle and via Bath into BTM is done and of course GWML fully done with Didcot-Oxford etc also. Just needs money and the political will and commonsense - and yes - even some spin.

I totally agree, and while this side of progress is a serendipitous outcome (it certainly was not planned exactly) it must be a great outcome for such as MML, if those schemes are phased in the same way.
 

NotATrainspott

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With many EU cities now banning diesel in the next few years as health affects become clear, and no doubt UK cities following, will these bi-modes be diesel by 2020-2025? Embarrassing for a flagship project to be using such old tech if so.

There is nothing wrong with diesel per se, it is just that our current taxation and subsidy systems mean that it's used in extremely inappropriate circumstances. Cars have one single emissions or taxation rating regardless of what they're used for, even though they're more optimal for one use than another. If you spend all day driving up and down motorways with your engine at the optimum temperature then the fuel efficiency benefits of a diesel massively outweigh its NOx emissions issues. If you drive a diesel in a city for short distances in stop-start traffic then it's the other way around. For some uses in cities, the benefits of diesels are strong enough that it's worthwhile to fit the expensive emissions scrubbing systems that make them somewhat less damaging to the environment. The recent car scandal has revolved primarily around small engines which were claimed not to need these systems.

Trains are pretty much ideal for diesel because the engines are used basically all day, every day, and they're in a totally controlled environment where it's not possible to evade the necessary legal requirements. Your casual 'man in a white van' might be tempted by the idea of not keeping the diesel engine systems totally legal (e.g. DFP removal) as they're unlikely to be caught. If a train operator did that to their trains, they would get in some pretty serious legal troubles that they wouldn't be able to escape.

The other factor is that we haven't yet worked out a realistic alternative to diesel other than electrification, mostly because we've never been forced to. Being a closed system it is somewhat easier to explore alternative fuels such as CNG, LPG or hydrogen than for road vehicles, but these are still more appropriate on segregated branch lines rather than on long mainline services. Powering the Class 80x trains with alternative fuels would require making changes up and down the country from Inverness and Aberdeen to Penzance.

Batteries are showing promise but it remains to be seen just how applicable they are to trains. It is comparatively easy to provide mains power to trains as they only go in predictable lines and the metal rails and wheels provide a return conductor, so you can have a simple pantograph and single conductor arrangement for power (compared to a two-pole trolley bus). While batteries will be able to take on basically every duty on the road, there will be a tipping point on the track where standard electrification will just be a better idea. Where that point is, we don't seem to yet know. I'm firmly of the opinion that it won't be as high as other people think, so we'll be seeing a lot more electrification in future.
 

coppercapped

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With many EU cities now banning diesel in the next few years as health affects become clear, and no doubt UK cities following, will these bi-modes be diesel by 2020-2025? Embarrassing for a flagship project to be using such old tech if so.

The 'bi-modes' will meet the EU Stage IIIB emission regulations, so very much 'new tech'. The only other motive power unit in the UK currently meeting these standards is the Class 88 electric with its 'last mile' diesel engine.

The bi-modes will be considerably cleaner than anything else operated on the railways at the moment. In view of the small number of units compared to the number of road vehicles - which are much closer to people's homes and places of work - it's a non-problem.
 

coppercapped

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There is nothing wrong with diesel per se, it is just that our current taxation and subsidy systems mean that it's used in extremely inappropriate circumstances. Cars have one single emissions or taxation rating regardless of what they're used for, even though they're more optimal for one use than another. If you spend all day driving up and down motorways with your engine at the optimum temperature then the fuel efficiency benefits of a diesel massively outweigh its NOx emissions issues. If you drive a diesel in a city for short distances in stop-start traffic then it's the other way around. For some uses in cities, the benefits of diesels are strong enough that it's worthwhile to fit the expensive emissions scrubbing systems that make them somewhat less damaging to the environment. The recent car scandal has revolved primarily around small engines which were claimed not to need these systems.

Trains are pretty much ideal for diesel because the engines are used basically all day, every day, and they're in a totally controlled environment where it's not possible to evade the necessary legal requirements. Your casual 'man in a white van' might be tempted by the idea of not keeping the diesel engine systems totally legal (e.g. DFP removal) as they're unlikely to be caught. If a train operator did that to their trains, they would get in some pretty serious legal troubles that they wouldn't be able to escape.

The other factor is that we haven't yet worked out a realistic alternative to diesel other than electrification, mostly because we've never been forced to. Being a closed system it is somewhat easier to explore alternative fuels such as CNG, LPG or hydrogen than for road vehicles, but these are still more appropriate on segregated branch lines rather than on long mainline services. Powering the Class 80x trains with alternative fuels would require making changes up and down the country from Inverness and Aberdeen to Penzance.

Batteries are showing promise but it remains to be seen just how applicable they are to trains. It is comparatively easy to provide mains power to trains as they only go in predictable lines and the metal rails and wheels provide a return conductor, so you can have a simple pantograph and single conductor arrangement for power (compared to a two-pole trolley bus). While batteries will be able to take on basically every duty on the road, there will be a tipping point on the track where standard electrification will just be a better idea. Where that point is, we don't seem to yet know. I'm firmly of the opinion that it won't be as high as other people think, so we'll be seeing a lot more electrification in future.

I wish there was a 'Like' button!

I would also point out that if diesels are perceived to be polluters of the air, then the fault lies in the Standards and Specifications against which they were designed, built and tested. It is known, for example, that the test regime assumes an engine and exhaust gas treatment equipment are at operating temperature, however some two thirds of car journeys/trips in this country are five miles or less. This means that the catalysers and filters never work efficiently.

By changing the specifications to state that the permitted emissions may not be exceeded at any point in a test cycle which starts from cold, engineers could develop systems which meet the specification. If one can define a requirement it will be possible to build a system that meets it.

Simply banning diesels is a nonsense - they have fuel consumption advantages over petrol engined vehicles which are environmentally advantageous.
 

Ploughman

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I thought that the last split of this thread was to remove discussions of what units will form the 17.15 from Paddington etc etc
Leaving this thread for the likes of us who count Cantilevers and Brackets.
 

HowardGWR

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I thought that the last split of this thread was to remove discussions of what units will form the 17.15 from Paddington etc etc
Leaving this thread for the likes of us who count Cantilevers and Brackets.

You'll get told off for that, I was (see above).:D
 

DidcotDickie

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Does anyone know if the issue with the low, but G2 listed, road bridge at Steventon is resolved yet ? Presumably that has to be sorted quite soon now if it's not going to delay the overall program.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...on_rail_bridge_on_hold_after_MP_intervention/
The short answer is no - and you're spot on in terms of potential impact.

It has all the hallmarks of a complete shambles. This shouldn't be impossible to sort out but the terms dithering and incompetence come to mind :-x

http://www.steventon.info/Railway.html

I wouldn't take Steventon Parish Council's website as a totally authoritative source but this is the best we have with total radio silence on the subject from Network Rail.

The appears to be no application yet on the Vale of White Horse DC website (the local planning authority) to demolish the bridge. Assuming 2-3 months public consultation plus time for planning decision, then NR to mobilise contractors followed by 10 months reconstruction this has plenty of opportunity to jeopardise the Dec 2018 Hendy dates for electric services west of Didcot.

Of course it may be possible to complete the electrification while the bridge reconstruction is in progress but it's cutting it a bit fine.
 

Mikey C

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As long as the politicians "grow a set" there should be no issue. Deltics were supposed to be a stop-gap and so were HSTs buying time for electrification. Take a sensible approach and continue a rolling program of electrification. When fully electrified buy a few more electric only and divert the bimodes to cross country- keep on electrifying so bit by bit you eliminate all the diesel mileage - or what is practical. Birmingham NS can be first by doing Derby- Exeter once Filton triangle and via Bath into BTM is done and of course GWML fully done with Didcot-Oxford etc also. Just needs money and the political will and commonsense - and yes - even some spin.

Even without further electrification, bimodes would enable cross country to travel through New Street in electric mode, and thus help reduce the terrible pollution and air quality there
 

jyte

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Version 1.5.3!

I tried a humours dev style 'bug patch' for this but I'm so tired I couldn't make it funny. Maybe next time.

Don't worry about the 1.5.3, 1.5.1 lacked Reading station, and 1.5.2 versions 1-6 (technically 1.5.2.1-1.5.2.6) lacked anyway....whatsoever....because I'd managed to delete the project file :)

Any issues, please PM - it's easier to keep track of them that way.
 
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coppercapped

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Does anyone know if the issue with the low, but G2 listed, road bridge at Steventon is resolved yet ? Presumably that has to be sorted quite soon now if it's not going to delay the overall program.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...on_rail_bridge_on_hold_after_MP_intervention/

At an IMechE meeting a few months ago, the Network Rail representative said that the need for the less than optimal overhead wire gradient between the bridge and the level crossing was accepted. The overhead would be more closely monitored for the anticipated increased wire wear but anyway it was hoped to resolve the whole situation within the next 10 years at which point heavy maintenance or replacement was going to be needed on the bridge.
 
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deltic08

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Not sure if this is the right site, but CAF offered Northern 2 coach 331 electric units. Would this be a good reason to wire Thames Valley branch lines and buy a few on the end of the Northern contract?
 

spark001uk

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I also noted today there's a number of portals + tubes/arms etc up in maidenhead sidings now.

Not a lot of info today I know, but it's a bit tricky identifying much in one go when passing at a ton and a quarter! ;)
 

NotATrainspott

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Not sure if this is the right site, but CAF offered Northern 2 coach 331 electric units. Would this be a good reason to wire Thames Valley branch lines and buy a few on the end of the Northern contract?

Interesting, if true. From this picture:

2civity-arrivaUK-electric.jpg


it looks like the pantograph may in fact be located on a driving vehicle. If so, building a 2-car version wouldn't be as hard as it would be for other manufacturers, who would then need to build a special bodyshell.
 

MatthewRead

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Not sure if this is the right site, but CAF offered Northern 2 coach 331 electric units. Would this be a good reason to wire Thames Valley branch lines and buy a few on the end of the Northern contract?

They'll have enough 387's to cover should the Thames Valley branches be wired!
 

swt_passenger

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They'll have enough 387's to cover should the Thames Valley branches be wired!

I think you may have missed the point. 4 car 387s are physically too long to get to Marlow, due to the junction arrangements at Bourne End. This has been pointed out ad infinitum, it even had its own thread to avoid cluttering up this one...
 

HowardGWR

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I think you may have missed the point. 4 car 387s are physically too long to get to Marlow, due to the junction arrangements at Bourne End. .
Fixed that for you SWT! :D I think suggestions were made as to how longer trains could be accommodated, but apart form that, what is the max no of pax ever seen from Marlow to Bourne End, even in the peak?.
 

jyte

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Was any work done last night?

Just asking because it seems like sometimes they manage to wire several miles in only a couple of hours!
 

dmncf

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The switching on of wires between Hayes & Harlington and Maidenhead has been amended to Sunday 26th of March. An all-line possession will be in place on Sunday 00:01 - 13:00 between Hayes & Harlington and Twyford.

I'm grateful to people who replied to my post about where rail replacements buses park at Paddington Station. I would be interested in seeing the operation when it takes place.

Journey planners and the planned engineering works PDF document on the GWR website (https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/planned-engineering/2017/week-52-saturday-25-to-friday-31-march.pdf?la=en) don't show any major changes, such as rail replacement buses, in that area on Sunday 26 March 2017. I'm not sure what this means.
 

Henbury Loop

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Masts are up at Pilning both towards CattyBrook and Severn Tunnel
 

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