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Great Western Electrification Progress

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LNW-GW Joint

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The bit we look out over has a long stretch of full portals (including a couple of the A-braced ones), and only a couple of cantilevers. I guess there's a good technical reason for this, but from a selfish point of view it's a bit of a shame as I think the cantilevers are slightly less obtrusive.

Nice to have a local view that doesn't suggest the world is ending because of the installation of OHLE!
I'm pretty sure the "A-frames" you mention are for the portals/cantilevers carrying the new signals over the tracks, rather than the OHLE.
They occur about every kilometre or so.
And welcome to the forum.
Maybe you will be one of the first to see wires go up!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Surely the Valley Lines electrification is the core business case for electrification west of the Severn Tunnel.
It would be ridiculous to electrify everything bar Newport to Bristol Parkway.

The updated Valley Electrification milestones say:
The funder is carrying out due diligence on the GRIP 2 work and will confirm the scope, outputs and a target date for commissioning
I don't think you can take anything for granted in the present climate. The current costs are unacceptable.
The case for the main line would be improved if local EMUs were planned between Bristol and Cardiff/Swansea, but they are apparently not on the agenda.
Elsewhere it seems Hitachi have been asked to quote for adding bi-mode capability to the FGW 801s.
While this would insure against late completion of electrification in England, it would also remove the immediate need to wire all the way to Swansea.
However, electrification work in Wales has started at Llanwern.
 
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Domh245

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Looking at the photo supplied by Tw99, I think that those A Framed portals are for tensioning equipment at wire overlaps. The fact that there are 2 of the A framed portals bookending 2 regular portals suggests overlap rather than anchor. Even just looking at the spacing between those portals and their neighbours would hint at them being OHLE related
 

swt_passenger

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Looking at the photo supplied by Tw99, I think that those A Framed portals are for tensioning equipment at wire overlaps. The fact that there are 2 of the A framed portals bookending 2 regular portals suggests overlap rather than anchor. Even just looking at the spacing between those portals and their neighbours would hint at them being OHLE related

I think this possible confusion arises because of different uses of the term 'A frame'. To me that describes a situation were both legs are symmetrically angled from the vertical - as in the case of the new signalling gantries along that stretch.

As those in the photo are not actually 'A frame shaped', I'd suggest they are better referred to as 'back stays' (or maybe some other technical term).
 

92002

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EGIP - Over budget, late and half of it got cancelled.
Lancashire Triangle - late
Great Western - late and enormously over budget
Midland Main Line - so late that it is now effectively cancelled

That is the bulk of the electrification work committed since privatisation with the exception of about seven miles as part of the WCRM. Any project before that was committed to construction by BR.



And yet the projects are miles behind schedule and running enormously over budget. Of course the contractors tendered for the prices Network Rail projected - if they hadn't they would not have won the contract.

I can only think of one contract that was completed on time and on budget off the top of my head - and that was Paisley Canal.
If the bulk of their costings were accurate and robust why have they managed to screw up CP5 so badly that the electrification programme is just waiting for news to bury the cancellation under?

EDIT:

If you want a reason - for a start look at the HOOP train debacle.
Network Rail has become so obsessed with obliterating any trace of BR that they decided to use a brand new, essentially untested in an operational setting, overhead wiring scheme with their brand new high output plant train. Which had not been designed to be used with this all singing all dancing new equipment scheme.

Don't know where you got your EGIP information. Last time I checked the project was on time and slightly under budget.

It is of course not following the example of GWML electrification. Most mast bases are piled and the wiring train that will be used has been imported from Europe as a runner.

The bits taken from the original EGIP plans really had nothing to do with Edinburgh to Glasgow Investment Programme. They have however been reauthorised and will be carried out after the main EGIP scheme. In fact some preparatory work has been completed already like lifting bridges.
 

Tw99

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As those in the photo are not actually 'A frame shaped', I'd suggest they are better referred to as 'back stays' (or maybe some other technical term).

Yes, I didn't describe those very well, they're not really A-braces, it's just an extra angled support
 
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fgwrich

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Don't know where you got your EGIP information. Last time I checked the project was on time and slightly under budget.

It is of course not following the example of GWML electrification. Most mast bases are piled and the wiring train that will be used has been imported from Europe as a runner.

The bits taken from the original EGIP plans really had nothing to do with Edinburgh to Glasgow Investment Programme. They have however been reauthorised and will be carried out after the main EGIP scheme. In fact some preparatory work has been completed already like lifting bridges.

Indeed. I was up there last week and to see the work already carried out on EGIP is quite impressive compared to the slow and creaking pace of the GWML project. It seems it's being done mostly with conventional methods and mostly utilising the triangular design Cantilever Portal Masts (Not the official name I know!) with a fair few either lying alongside the line or as in the case of Linlithgow already partially up. It just make me wonder why Scotland seems to manage to be able to handle schemes like this right, whereas it's almost the opposite in England.
 

NotATrainspott

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Indeed. I was up there last week and to see the work already carried out on EGIP is quite impressive compared to the slow and creaking pace of the GWML project. It seems it's being done mostly with conventional methods and mostly utilising the triangular design Cantilever Portal Masts (Not the official name I know!) with a fair few either lying alongside the line or as in the case of Linlithgow already partially up. It just make me wonder why Scotland seems to manage to be able to handle schemes like this right, whereas it's almost the opposite in England.

It's been said before but probably the single biggest difference is that the teams in Scotland have had years to practice on other schemes before EGIP whereas the teams in England are all completely new.
 

Philip Phlopp

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Don't know where you got your EGIP information. Last time I checked the project was on time and slightly under budget.

It is of course not following the example of GWML electrification. Most mast bases are piled and the wiring train that will be used has been imported from Europe as a runner.

The bits taken from the original EGIP plans really had nothing to do with Edinburgh to Glasgow Investment Programme. They have however been reauthorised and will be carried out after the main EGIP scheme. In fact some preparatory work has been completed already like lifting bridges.

I tend to think HSTEd is being deliberately provocative, but to recap for him.

EGIP was de-scoped in 2012, before work commenced and the core part of the scheme, the electrification of the route between Edinburgh and Glasgow via Falkirk was totally re-worked.

We lost a number of things - the biggest would have been the Dalmeny Chord being removed from the scheme, and E&G trains not serving Edinburgh Gateway. There was also Greenhill Jn grade separation, some signalling section shortening and headway improvements and the Croy turnback, all of which combined to allow six trains per hour.

The rolling stock was to be 3 x 23m stock, forming 6 car units, much the same as the current stock, but with faster acceleration and linespeed increases combining for a journey time decrease of around 10 minutes. That gives 36 cars per hour.

The plans were completely re-worked and we now get four trains per hour with 8 cars, for a total of 32 cars per hour. It's not quite a match for what went before, but it's good, and we get some better infrastructure to play with, with the option to add in things like Greenhill Jn grade separation and add 1 train per hour extra, which takes you up to 40 cars per hour, or Croy turnback and Dalmeny Chord for the full 6 trains per hour which would give 48 cars per hour.

The way in which future upgrades can proceed will be less painful as platform extensions and electrification works are all done at the same time - works out on the railway can plod along without having as serve an impact on the route in future.

The core EGIP scheme removed electrification of Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa, but this was added back as part of a more rounded ongoing electrification program, which also includes the Shotts Line and has resulted in the Whifflet and Coatbridge scheme, with Paisley Canal being a bit of a quick and easy exercise to make use of spare assets, essentially.

The presence of the Shotts Line electrification later in CP5 will lift some of the pressure from the main Edinburgh and Glasgow route in any case, with faster, more frequent services operating on the route. There should be slightly more capacity between Edinburgh and Glasgow as a result of the entire re-planning of the EGIP and CP5 wiring schemes, and it will allow passengers easier journeys with no changes, moving some from the E&G route onto the Shotts Line as it will better suit their journeys.

I'm also confused about the contention that there hasn't been electrification since BR - are we forgetting about the electrification of the Airdrie to Bathgate route from Drumgelloch through to Edinburgh, with a lot of electrification works in and around Edinburgh Waverley.
 
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snowball

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In Sept Modern Railways, Roger Ford compares the GWML electrification with the ECML project c1990,
[snip]
Another factor is the high spec of the Series 1 OHLE design, for 140mph running.

He's also quite indignant about the frequently encountered assertion that the ECML was done "on the cheap".

He adds: "It has become clear that Series 1 is grossly over designed with an idealistic specification. [snip] According to informed sources, the design and specification of Series 1 is now being rationalised."
 

Peter Mugridge

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On the other hand, I suppose there may be some visible arcing at night, and I'm not sure how obtrusive that might be.

You probably won't notice it; unless a large bird gets tangled up by flying into the wires and goes supernova as a result, any arcing is very minimal compared to when you see on third rails. Just tiny blue flashes on the top of the pantographs.
 

jimm

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Looking at the photo supplied by Tw99, I think that those A Framed portals are for tensioning equipment at wire overlaps. The fact that there are 2 of the A framed portals bookending 2 regular portals suggests overlap rather than anchor. Even just looking at the spacing between those portals and their neighbours would hint at them being OHLE related

The Furrer+Frey website shows two designs of System 1 portal with the additional angled support, one for overlaps, as you suggest, the other for what they describe as a mono-anchorboom.

See http://www.furrerfrey.ch/en/systems/Series-1.html#prettyPhoto
 

Domh245

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I think this possible confusion arises because of different uses of the term 'A frame'. To me that describes a situation were both legs are symmetrically angled from the vertical - as in the case of the new signalling gantries along that stretch.

As those in the photo are not actually 'A frame shaped', I'd suggest they are better referred to as 'back stays' (or maybe some other technical term).

How about we borrow one of my favourite phrases to come out of the NW Electrification reporting and go for TGBU (Thundering great big 'un)

I've also been trying to understand those anchoring arrangements. It seems to be 2 TGBUs fitted with the Tensorex devices that then either attach to the running wires (unlikely) or they take the running wire up replacing it with wire from the second, which unless I am failing to understand how anchoring works, or they've used anchoring to describe what would normally be known as an overlap (which also seems unlikely because the pantograph would have to deal with a fairly uneven contact wire height) seems a bit odd!
 

Philip Phlopp

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He's also quite indignant about the frequently encountered assertion that the ECML was done "on the cheap".

He adds: "It has become clear that Series 1 is grossly over designed with an idealistic specification. [snip] According to informed sources, the design and specification of Series 1 is now being rationalised."

It was always going to be rationalised, with the UK Series 2 design, which is suitable for 100/110mph routes, being merged into the UK Series 1, so sections like the South Wales Main Line don't have 140mph capable catenary when the linespeed is 100mph.

It's possible that the South Wales Main Line may be electrified with Series 2 equipment in any case, to simplify maintenance in the South Wales area, which will be using Series 2 equipment on the Valley Lines electrification.

There are a few issues to resolve - the Series 1 type Twin Track Cantilevers haven't, as far as I'm aware, been tested with any other OLE system as yet, though the lightweight portals have been and are fine.
 
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Domh245

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When you say series 1 and 2 are going to be merged together, does that mean using series 2 small part steel work on series 1 masts, because I would have thought that would mean a lot of faffing about trying to make them compatible with each other. Or did you mean using both designs on the same route but going from series 1 to series 2 when conditions are suitable?
 

Philip Phlopp

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When you say series 1 and 2 are going to be merged together, does that mean using series 2 small part steel work on series 1 masts, because I would have thought that would mean a lot of faffing about trying to make them compatible with each other. Or did you mean using both designs on the same route but going from series 1 to series 2 when conditions are suitable?

No, the Series 2 designs will be folded in alongside the Series 1 designs to form what's termed the UK Master Series Index.

There shouldn't be too much incompatibility as it is, but when the components are all merged together, any remaining issues will be dealt with, and where possible, additional standardisation of components will take place, things like registration arms and even insulators, if possible.

What we don't want to happen is a situation where spares become incompatible with existing Series 1 and Series 2 installations though, unless it's absolutely unavoidable.
 

Altnabreac

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I'm also confused about the contention that there hasn't been electrification since BR - are we forgetting about the electrification of the Airdrie to Bathgate route from Drumgelloch through to Edinburgh, with a lot of electrification works in and around Edinburgh Waverley.

Also Larkhall reopening in 2005 and Crewe - Kidsgrove in around 2003 or so.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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How about we borrow one of my favourite phrases to come out of the NW Electrification reporting and go for TGBU (Thundering great big 'un)

Yes indeed! That was because we were impressed at the size of some of the 4-track gantries at Huyton.
These have now been eclipsed by the absolutely enormous new structures I have seen on the GW route, notably around Stockley and West Drayton.
The gantries sit on not a large single base, but a multiple-base square metal grid structure taking up a lot of embankment space.
The cost for one of these must be astronomical.

It was always going to be rationalised, with the UK Series 2 design, which is suitable for 100/110mph routes, being merged into the UK Series 1, so sections like the South Wales Main Line don't have 140mph capable catenary when the linespeed is 100mph.

It's possible that the South Wales Main Line may be electrified with Series 2 equipment in any case, to simplify maintenance in the South Wales area, which will be using Series 2 equipment on the Valley Lines electrification.

There are a few issues to resolve - the Series 1 type Twin Track Cantilevers haven't, as far as I'm aware, been tested with any other OLE system as yet, though the lightweight portals have been and are fine.

In the (now rather embarrassing) announcement of the start of MML electrification, it was stated that the wiring would be a modified form of the GW Series 1 - without specifying what that meant.
Maybe we are now in the phase of redesigning the GW route to better match the requirements of each route section, particularly in the west.
Presumably the GW branches, Reading-Newbury/Basingstoke and Didcot-Oxford were only ever going to be Series 2?
 
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Lurpi

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He's also quite indignant about the frequently encountered assertion that the ECML was done "on the cheap".

He adds: "It has become clear that Series 1 is grossly over designed with an idealistic specification. [snip] According to informed sources, the design and specification of Series 1 is now being rationalised."

Roger Ford is very quick to leap to the defence of the good old ECML electrification at the expense of the nasty GWML project. Fair enough, so GWML is costing nearly four times more. Perhaps Series 1 is over-engineered. However, he overlooks some important points. They are:

1) When ECML electrification was authorised in 1984 or thereabouts, BR was under pressure from the Treasury to cut costs to the absolute minimum. So it isn't necessarily an aspersion on the BR engineers whose memory he seeks to defend if too many corners were cut.

2) As he observed in the April Modern Railways, even when properly maintained, the ECML headspans lack resilience because of the lack of independent registration, i.e. the wires are all connected to each other, so whenever damage occurs it tends to take out all the contact wires at once instead of just one, thereby closing that section of line completely. This is not good enough and independent registration was part of the brief for the new Series 1 design.

3) The beloved ECML structures are now being reworked by fitting a latticework portal across the headspan mast, turning the headspans into rigid portals and allowing independent registration. I don't know of any other OLE that has needed to be reworked in this way, which doesn't reflect well on the original design. One driver for this is to help the ECML wires stand up to rough weather, as noted by NR in a recent report on network resilience. Another (again according to Mr Ford) is helping to provide 140mph capability for the IEP trains, for which speed a heavier wire is required which the headspans couldn't support.

But given that the InterCity 225 trains for which the ECML was electrified originally were also capable of 140mph (hence the name, 225 kph), it does indeed suggest the wiring was done on the cheap if it couldn't accommodate the top speed of the trains designed to run on it.

4) I don't know of any intercity railway in Europe that uses headspans to the extent that ECML does. As with the IEP trains, it's probably unique for the wrong reasons.

To get back to GWML. We will have 140mph IEP trains and we ought to have 140mph infrastructure to either allow 140mph running now or to future proof. I do hope that this "rationalisation" of the Series 1 OLE does not remove 140mph capability. It's bad enough that the ECML infrastructure doesn't support 140mph* when both the current and future trains do.

As Roger Ford observed back in April: "How embarrassing it would be if, in six or seven years' time, trains were at last ready and able to run at 140mph on the East Coast route but the infrastructure was not up to it?" It would be unforgivable to repeat that mistake on the GWML.

*not just because of the wires but also level crossings that would need to be closed. Additional track and removing slower trains from the main lines, for example by grade separated junctions, would help sustain 140mph running over long distances.
 

HowardGWR

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Reading about information evening on the Stratton Green bridge reconstruction in east Swindon, I assume they mean the single track old Roman road Ermin Street, now replaced by the A419 Stratton bypass bridge. I see there are four bridges including another yet another one to the east (Thornhill Rd) and one to the west called Swindon Road B4006, although this latter may be the one to which they are referring.

Does anyone know if the result of these works will be that there is space left for possible four tracking in the future? The A419 one definitely looks future proofed.
 

jimm

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Reading about information evening on the Stratton Green bridge reconstruction in east Swindon, I assume they mean the single track old Roman road Ermin Street, now replaced by the A419 Stratton bypass bridge. I see there are four bridges including another yet another one to the east (Thornhill Rd) and one to the west called Swindon Road B4006, although this latter may be the one to which they are referring.

Does anyone know if the result of these works will be that there is space left for possible four tracking in the future? The A419 one definitely looks future proofed.

By Stratton Green, Network Rail means the B4006 Swindon Road bridge, see https://www.networkrail.co.uk/stratton-green-factsheet-september-2014.pdf
 

contrex

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Perhaps on the national network now, but side-contact
1200V seems to be a dividing line between third rail and overhead wires, with some Swiss light rail systems using 1200V overhead.
Lines 4 and 5 of the Guangzhou Metro in China use 1500 V third rail. The Ligne de Maurienne (Culoz - Modane) in France used 1500 V side contact third rail from electrification in 1925 until 1976 when conversion to 1500 V overhead took place. From 1958 a 3 loco subclass of CC 7100 (CC 7124, 7125 and 7138) were equipped with what I suppose I must call shoes? (frotteurs) as well as pantos. From 1969-76 a "Maurienne" subclass of CC 6500 (CC 6539 to 6559) were used also. The rail was mostly surrounded by boards. I believe this was the highest 3rd rail voltage ever used in Europe.

Some pix of PLM locos and the juice rail design here http://www.apmfs.fr/mmm3r.html
 
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mr_jrt

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But given that the InterCity 225 trains for which the ECML was electrified originally were also capable of 140mph (hence the name, 225 kph), it does indeed suggest the wiring was done on the cheap if it couldn't accommodate the top speed of the trains designed to run on it.

...just to interject here - it's my understanding that the OHLE on the ECML is perfectly capable of handling 140mph as would have been provided by the 225s, as they only would have had a single pantograph. You need a higher tension wire for dual pantograph operation as required by units such as the IEPs, so not such the face-palm cutback as it may outwardly seem.
 

Philip Phlopp

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Roger Ford is very quick to leap to the defence of the good old ECML electrification at the expense of the nasty GWML project. Fair enough, so GWML is costing nearly four times more. Perhaps Series 1 is over-engineered.

I've spoken to Roger about the ECML and whilst I appreciate his viewpoints on the ECML electrification, I think he's downright wrong. He has long suggested "too much power is just enough" and I think we've been burned far too often by not taking a similar approach to our infrastructure, including electrification.

I personally think the ECML is something akin to cutting off one of your feet to save money on your shoe bills. It works fine until you fall over and break your glasses a couple of times a year.

There's plenty of evidence that the ECML wasn't just inexpensive, but corners were cut. There are plenty of structures on the ECML that could do with new foundations and are currently subject to increased monitoring, some of these have resulted in dewirements in the past, so I'm unconvinced by Roger's arguments that the foundations on the GWML are over engineered.

HSE and ORR wouldn't allow the same methods of installation either, so you can double or treble the costs involved in the actual electrification, there's additional bridge parapet raising works needed now, 1.5m is no longer sufficient and 1.8m is the new minimum height, that will cost more money. ECML installation was cheap because BR considered it acceptable to have a man up a ladder doing work on a headspan, and that there was sufficient time between trains to install a headspan. That's things that absolutely do not apply today.

There was absolutely no future proofing in the design - it can't take the next gauge of contact wire and catenary wire upwards without significant modification, and has absolutely no capability to cope with 140mph running with multiple pantographs, something that wasn't an unrealistic possibility when the project was approved. There's also a greater difficulty in changing layouts and altering junctions because of the way contact/catenary wires are suspended from the headspans.

The GWML, when it's done, will have been done properly, it will cope with faster trains, more trains working in multiple and won't cause total chaos in the event of a single track dewirement. When it's done and we're doing the post-mortem, people will wonder quite why we were so reluctant to spend money and do things properly. As we do today with the ECML every time the line is closed to electric traction and we've got VTEC controllers lining up Class 67 locos for drags.

mr_jrt said:
...just to interject here - it's my understanding that the OHLE on the ECML is perfectly capable of handling 140mph as would have been provided by the 225s, as they only would have had a single pantograph. You need a higher tension wire for dual pantograph operation as required by units such as the IEPs, so not such the face-palm cutback as it may outwardly seem.

I don't know if it's perfectly capable - it's capable but at what cost to reliability and at what level of damage in the event of a 140mph dewirement, we don't know for certain.

Inevitably 140mph running would cause more damage during dewirements and I'd expect, given additional forces involved on contact wire and catenary wire, would increase the failure rate, particularly at locations where 140mph line speeds apply in both directions.

To support multiple pantograph operation at 140mph, you need a thicker contact wire to support higher tension, higher tension is needed to better resist oscillations in the contact wire forming, and thicker contact cable at higher tension is needed to support a higher pantograph uplift force so the pantograph at the rear of a formation can maintain more satisfactory contact with the contact wire, reducing arcing and damage to the pan carbon, which in turn increases the risk of contact wire damage and dewirements.

Higher tensions will also reduce lateral deflection in high winds and keep the contact wire closer to the centre of the pantograph in such conditions, provided the registration is maintained correctly. That's an issue on sections of the ECML thanks to BR's cheap foundations.
 
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ironstone11

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I've spoken to Roger about the ECML and whilst I appreciate his viewpoints on the ECML electrification, I think he's downright wrong. He has long suggested "too much power is just enough" and I think we've been burned far too often by not taking a similar approach to our infrastructure, including electrification.

Following a bad spate of overhead line incidents on the ECML and MML a couple of years ago I emailed Roger Ford just as he had announced in his Blog that he was off to an electrification conference.

In my email, somewhat with tongue in cheek, I suggested to him that OLE, at least in the UK, was not fit for purpose.

He disagreed with my suggestion and considered the problems on the ECML and MML were due primarily to poor maintenance. In part this may be true.

He also went on the praise the MK3 catenary (the system which uses headspans) and went on the say how an upgraded version had been used overseas to withstand hurricanes.

I recently found a specification for OLE on Indian Railways, which made it very clear that only independent mechanical support and registration of the catenary for each running line was acceptable.

With almost 25,000 route km (38% of the total route km) electrified, mainly at 25kV, they seem to know what they are doing. Makes our efforts here in the UK look rather pathetic.

I am puzzled by the claim that headspans are cheaper than portals. The stanchions for supporting headspans experience a considerable turning moment, depending on the weights of the headspan and the catenaries supported towards the track. This requires better or deeper foundations. Stanchions supporting a portal experience no such turning moment with all the forces on them acting in the vertical direction.

Positioning of the catenary supports is independent, thus making installation and adjustment quicker and easier.
 

Philip Phlopp

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Following a bad spate of overhead line incidents on the ECML and MML a couple of years ago I emailed Roger Ford just as he had announced in his Blog that he was off to an electrification conference.

In my email, somewhat with tongue in cheek, I suggested to him that OLE, at least in the UK, was not fit for purpose.

He disagreed with my suggestion and considered the problems on the ECML and MML were due primarily to poor maintenance. In part this may be true.

He also went on the praise the MK3 catenary (the system which uses headspans) and went on the say how an upgraded version had been used overseas to withstand hurricanes.

I recently found a specification for OLE on Indian Railways, which made it very clear that only independent mechanical support and registration of the catenary for each running line was acceptable.

With almost 25,000 route km (38% of the total route km) electrified, mainly at 25kV, they seem to know what they are doing. Makes our efforts here in the UK look rather pathetic.

I am puzzled by the claim that headspans are cheaper than portals. The stanchions for supporting headspans experience a considerable turning moment, depending on the weights of the headspan and the catenaries supported towards the track. This requires better or deeper foundations. Stanchions supporting a portal experience no such turning moment with all the forces on them acting in the vertical direction.

Positioning of the catenary supports is independent, thus making installation and adjustment quicker and easier.

There is an ongoing issue with maintenance, but in some cases, it's down to poor foundations allowing mast rotating as a result of prevailing wind direction, and causing a knock on failure of registration. MENTOR and the NMT should pick up on it, but there was a lack of sufficient experience, knowledge and manpower to really be able to pay as close attention to the masts as is needed. RAIB picked up on this a couple of years ago, so I presume it's still not fixed.

There was also spate of insulator failures, which as you know, is a major problem with headspans, a single insulator failure takes out all tracks, and inevitably will result in a dewirement and 5 to 10 headspans being damaged. Those insulators considered to be 'at risk' were replaced, generally with newer silicone composite insulators, but as I've said previously, they have their own disadvantages and can make more of a mess during a dewirement.

Roger seems to think the foundations for the ECML headspan masts are smaller and quicker to construct in comparison to the piled steel foundations for the twin track cantilevers, I doubt there's much in it, though I'd need to double check what went in for the ECML masts.

The benefit of going to a driven circular steel pile is that you eliminate the issues we've got with ECML masts right now, where the whole concrete foundation has either failed or is rotating within the ground, under conditions which a larger circular steel driven pile would resist.

They should be far more stable and require less monitoring in future, though again, NMT and MENTOR should be picking up on any mast movement.
 

SpacePhoenix

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There is an ongoing issue with maintenance, but in some cases, it's down to poor foundations allowing mast rotating as a result of prevailing wind direction, and causing a knock on failure of registration. MENTOR and the NMT should pick up on it, but there was a lack of sufficient experience, knowledge and manpower to really be able to pay as close attention to the masts as is needed. RAIB picked up on this a couple of years ago, so I presume it's still not fixed.

There was also spate of insulator failures, which as you know, is a major problem with headspans, a single insulator failure takes out all tracks, and inevitably will result in a dewirement and 5 to 10 headspans being damaged. Those insulators considered to be 'at risk' were replaced, generally with newer silicone composite insulators, but as I've said previously, they have their own disadvantages and can make more of a mess during a dewirement.

Roger seems to think the foundations for the ECML headspan masts are smaller and quicker to construct in comparison to the piled steel foundations for the twin track cantilevers, I doubt there's much in it, though I'd need to double check what went in for the ECML masts.

The benefit of going to a driven circular steel pile is that you eliminate the issues we've got with ECML masts right now, where the whole concrete foundation has either failed or is rotating within the ground, under conditions which a larger circular steel driven pile would resist.

They should be far more stable and require less monitoring in future, though again, NMT and MENTOR should be picking up on any mast movement.

Could another coach be modified like is shown in post http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1862355&postcount=112 to film the state of the masts and wire, having an onboard computer analyse the images and flag any that need further inspection?
 

ironstone11

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There is an ongoing issue with maintenance ... MENTOR and the NMT should pick up on it, but there was a lack of sufficient experience, knowledge and manpower to really be able to pay as close attention to the masts as is needed. RAIB picked up on this a couple of years ago, so I presume it's still not fixed.
The RAIB report referred to relates to the King's Lynn line. In this case MENTOR recorded the problem, but nobody looked at the results.

Roger Ford wrote an article in Modern Railways based on the findings of the RAIB report.

Although highlighting a maintenance issue which was on single line with cantilevered OHL support, this has little bearing on the headspan or portal discussion. However good the maintenance, as pointed out above, the consequences of a failure in a headspan section are always likely to be far more disruptive.
 

swt_passenger

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Could another coach be modified like is shown in post http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1862355&postcount=112 to film the state of the masts and wire, having an onboard computer analyse the images and flag any that need further inspection?

I think the idea is to build proper OHLE measuring equipment into a subset of new passenger trains, as well as the pantograph video recording equipment that some new trains (such as the 379s) are already getting.

Haven't a couple of Pendolino been retrofitted with OHLE recording gear as well?

Here's an extract from the initial part of the IEP spec:

4.17.5 Unattended Overhead Line Measurement System (UOMS)

TS1914 It is an essential requirement that sufficient IEP trains are fitted with an operational UOMS
so that Overhead Line (OHL) condition data is provided to Network Rail, for each route, at least twice weekly.

TS1917 It is an essential requirement that the IEP trains UOMS system shall require no operator
intervention and shall monitor and record the following overhead line parameters:

etc etc...
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Do any 350s, 360s or 380s have any OHLE measuring equipment or pantograph video recording equipment built in?
 
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